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Post Reply Trump and Taiwanese President Talk
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M / Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 12/4/16

Adjacent-Taurus wrote:


bensonc120 wrote:

I'm ready for war with China. My tax dollars are paying for our military so I expect our military to defend our Taiwanese ally. China's "hurt feelings" does not and should not determine our foreign policy. There is no reason we should be fearful of openly engaging in diplomacy with our loyal friends and allies.


I'm sorry but didn't people also vote for Trump to avoid war in the first place?

Or is that all just a false pretense?


I didn't vote for Trump, but I give him credit 100% when he is making the correct moves. You can't table any possibility of war when you are negotiating and leveraging other nations. China understands power and they need to realize that we can and will wipe them out. We will engage openly with our allies with or without China's permission. Their acts of aggression in the South China Seas conducting "mlitary exercises" with intention to threaten our allies will not be tolerated.
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Posted 12/4/16
"Did China ask us if it was OK to devalue their currency (making it hard for our companies to compete), heavily tax our products going into their country (the U.S. doesn't tax them) or to build a massive military complex in the middle of the South China Sea? I don't think so!"




Hoooooly crap Donald, you absolute madman lol
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24 / M / Somewhere Drinking
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Posted 12/4/16

Emtro wrote:


Adjacent-Taurus wrote:
I'm sorry but didn't people also vote for Trump to avoid war in the first place?


This makes me wish people would go back and actually look at Trump's policies. Saying he didn't have any policies was a lie. Yes, he had policies, he talked about them all the time. No, he has never back tracked on a policy. Yes, he has added to and elaborated to them.

But this one hasn't changed much at all. His position is to stop with the imperialist bullshitting. We either go in for victory (which means we take territory instead of just smash-release-repeat) or we don't put our hand in where it's not wanted. His position in the same speeches was also that, unless incredible crimes against humanity were evident and proven, we would not put our hands into wars unless someone bites us.

This is someone potentially biting us.


We go in for the victory? By destabilizing the current government and install a puppet leader that is not democratically elected by the people and thereby pissing off the native population of that country? Or are you trying to say we outright conquer their lands and subjugate them and include them into the United States? I like your third option better which is to leave things the hell alone and preferably the only option viable unless everything else fails.

No, this is someone biting someone else who happens to be a friend with benefits. Look I don't agree with China's militaristic approach but they are a world power and if a pissing contest occurs other nations won't just sit this one out and they have nukes and we have nukes so lets try not escalate this.

I think they should just leave things be and maintain the status quo. From China's perspective Taiwan is a thorn on their side much like how Cuba was a thorn in America's side during the Cold War. At the end of the day its just two super power nations with imperialistic aims trying to expand their power and influence.



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Posted 12/4/16

bensonc120 wrote:


Adjacent-Taurus wrote:


bensonc120 wrote:

I'm ready for war with China. My tax dollars are paying for our military so I expect our military to defend our Taiwanese ally. China's "hurt feelings" does not and should not determine our foreign policy. There is no reason we should be fearful of openly engaging in diplomacy with our loyal friends and allies.


I'm sorry but didn't people also vote for Trump to avoid war in the first place?

Or is that all just a false pretense?


I didn't vote for Trump, but I give him credit 100% when he is making the correct moves. You can't table any possibility of war when you are negotiating and leveraging other nations. China understands power and they need to realize that we can and will wipe them out. We will engage openly with our allies with or without China's permission. Their acts of aggression in the South China Seas conducting "mlitary exercises" with intention to threaten our allies will not be tolerated.


We can't (without destroying the global economy) and won't (unless we are tremendously idiotic) "wipe them out".Thats not how these things work. We don't just say "I don't like you, have some nukes" to one of the greatest superpowers in the world and we don't jump into war with them because of something that barely matters to us in the first place (as others have said, things are stable now). Fucking with the balance benefits no one at this point and saying "fuck you diplomacy" also isn't exactly a great way to get things done. Sometimes diplomacy means not doing things that will piss others off if possible.
qwueri 
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Posted 12/4/16
So are we allowed to take all the stupid shit Trump says and tweets seriously yet?
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49 / M / New England, USA
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Posted 12/5/16

Kavalion wrote:

I like how China is trying to decide if it was on purpose or not. Great move.


Well, in their defense, he claims Taiwan called him while his cabinet claims it was a planned call and he called Taiwan.
runec 
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Posted 12/5/16

bensonc120 wrote:
China understands power and they need to realize that we can and will wipe them out.


No, you can't and you wouldn't. Even if you somehow totally lost your minds as a nation and declared war on China the logistics of it are neigh impossible.

Land wars in Asia and all that.
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21 / M / Oppai Hell
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Posted 12/5/16 , edited 12/5/16

runec wrote:


bensonc120 wrote:
China understands power and they need to realize that we can and will wipe them out.


No, you can't and you wouldn't. Even if you somehow totally lost your minds as a nation and declared war on China the logistics of it are neigh impossible.

Land wars in Asia and all that.


This hubris exhibited by the US for their army is naive. You guys are underestimating China like Hillary did with Russia. We should at least afford certain "respects" to Nations which actually are a world superpower for a reason. It is highly debatable whether we could win. China is huge, and even the technological advances between the Japanese and Chinese weren't enough to sustain a solid foothold, nor are the technological advances today. "Will" is an entirely different set of terms. Nothing China does in my opinion require anything more than suave negotiations hopefully, and doubtfully something which will see the deaths of hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of just OUR servicemen and women.

So I agree.

China also understands this to an extent. There is a difference between assuring retaliatory action on our side and the willingness to escalate into a full blown war.
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M / Los Angeles
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Posted 12/5/16
They are angry about the US answering the phone call of a democratically elected country in fear of offending a communist led country. Let that sink in...
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31 / M
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Posted 12/5/16
Why is it most people flew into a panic at the thought of angering Russia (electing Hillary), but pissing off China is no big deal?
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30 / M / Atlanta, GA, USA
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Posted 12/5/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:
This hubris exhibited by the US for their army is naive. You guys are underestimating China like Hillary did with Russia. We should at least afford certain "respects" to Nations which actually are a world superpower for a reason. It is highly debatable whether we could win.


Well, I suppose we could discuss it. I don't know of China's ability to project its military power beyond a limited number of long-range ballistic missiles and a few nuclear submarines. Mostly, they have short-range stuff to try and deal with USA bases in Taiwan, Japan, and so on.

So, their issue is that they have difficulty attacking the USA directly. The USA not only has military bases next to them, they also have a large nuclear navy to project their military power.

They kind of need to build a bigger military just to protect their important assets, but all it does is progress an arms race. Do you think they can do much in an actual armed conflict? Not that we want to really find out, of course.
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M / Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 12/5/16 , edited 12/5/16

rawratl wrote:

Why is it most people flew into a panic at the thought of angering Russia (electing Hillary), but pissing off China is no big deal?


Because China has no right to be pissed off about a phone call when they themselves are conducting "military exercises" on unclaimed islands in the South China Sea to intimidate their neighbors. The people of Taiwan, Philippines, Japan, and other nations have had to deal with China's bully tactics for far too long. The Taiwan Relations Act of 1979 dictates that the dispute between China and Taiwan must be resolved peacefully. For 40 years China has not cooperated while US and Taiwan have abided by the terms, and you are now worried about a freaking phone call? How about every military "exercise" China conducts prior to Taiwan elections over the years? Some of us have lived in both regions and studied this issue in universities. If the only information you know about this issue is via wikipedia then your opinion is useless on this matter. The Taiwan Relations Act is not keeping any peace. The only things keeping the peace is US sale of defensive weapons to Taiwan and also the 7th fleet that patrols the area.
qwueri 
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31 / M
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Posted 12/5/16

rawratl wrote:

Why is it most people flew into a panic at the thought of angering Russia (electing Hillary), but pissing off China is no big deal?


Because Trump admires Putin and distrusts China.
Posted 12/5/16
and the media speculates? /red]

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Posted 12/5/16

Adjacent-Taurus wrote:
We go in for the victory? By destabilizing the current government and install a puppet leader that is not democratically elected by the people and thereby pissing off the native population of that country? Or are you trying to say we outright conquer their lands and subjugate them and include them into the United States? I like your third option better which is to leave things the hell alone and preferably the only option viable unless everything else fails.

No, this is someone biting someone else who happens to be a friend with benefits. Look I don't agree with China's militaristic approach but they are a world power and if a pissing contest occurs other nations won't just sit this one out and they have nukes and we have nukes so lets try not escalate this.

I think they should just leave things be and maintain the status quo. From China's perspective Taiwan is a thorn on their side much like how Cuba was a thorn in America's side during the Cold War. At the end of the day its just two super power nations with imperialistic aims trying to expand their power and influence.


Still in a bubble eh? Can't separate apples and oranges cause you saw a pair? I really don't know why I tried, you're only posting to agitate. You're not ignorant, you know exactly what the difference in policy is. You probably knew before you posted that misrepresentation of policy in the post I replied to.

Stop flaming and baiting. If you don't really care the subject, just don't. It's not funny, it's not smart, and it's not even trolling.
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