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Trump and Taiwanese President Talk
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Posted 12/5/16 , edited 12/5/16

Emtro wrote:


Adjacent-Taurus wrote:
We go in for the victory? By destabilizing the current government and install a puppet leader that is not democratically elected by the people and thereby pissing off the native population of that country? Or are you trying to say we outright conquer their lands and subjugate them and include them into the United States? I like your third option better which is to leave things the hell alone and preferably the only option viable unless everything else fails.

No, this is someone biting someone else who happens to be a friend with benefits. Look I don't agree with China's militaristic approach but they are a world power and if a pissing contest occurs other nations won't just sit this one out and they have nukes and we have nukes so lets try not escalate this.

I think they should just leave things be and maintain the status quo. From China's perspective Taiwan is a thorn on their side much like how Cuba was a thorn in America's side during the Cold War. At the end of the day its just two super power nations with imperialistic aims trying to expand their power and influence.


Still in a bubble eh? Can't separate apples and oranges cause you saw a pair? I really don't know why I tried, you're only posting to agitate. You're not ignorant, you know exactly what the difference in policy is. You probably knew before you posted that misrepresentation of policy in the post I replied to.

Stop flaming and baiting. If you don't really care the subject, just don't. It's not funny, it's not smart, and it's not even trolling.


Yeah, people should stop living in a bubble and be more like you.

On a completely unrelated subject; tell me more about how Trump didn't have any history with sexual harrassment or assault allegations before running for president.
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Posted 12/5/16 , edited 12/5/16
People are blowing the risk of war vastly out of proportion. The Chinese are not going to go to war with us over a phone call.

Throughout the Cold War, there were numerous and documented incidents where the Soviet's almost launched nukes because Gorbachev got drunk and went on a rant. Yet, somehow, we're all still here. There's a reason: war is extremely costly and destructive for both sides.

The Chinese government is run by pragmatic individuals who aren't insane. Therefore, no war over a phone call. If we formally recognized Taiwan's sovereignty as an independent country, the Chinese would be angry, they would threaten us, and they would engage in aggressive "military exercises" but they still wouldn't go to war with us.

Why? Because they don't want their country destroyed any more than we want ours destroyed. When a fight will only result in both parties broken and devastated, there isn't much chance of a fight. Proxy fighting is how the Cold War was carried out for the same reasons. China likes to keep North Korea around so everyone bites their nails over the crazy despot shooting of a nuke but they'd never let that happen either.

The Chinese are simply not suicidal enough to want a war. We can be a bit more aggressive in dealing with them for that reason. Everyone seems to forget that weakness on the world stage invites tragedy. Look at Syria for an example.

Trump is not a war monger and he's not the idiot the MSM want you to think he is. We're so used to weak politicians running things that we've forgotten what actual leadership looks like.
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Posted 12/5/16 , edited 12/5/16
Yes we know that the Chinese government is not crazy, and yes the media does not portray Trump in a positive light, and yes nobody wants war. That much is obvious.

But when people started to espouse the idea of an open conflict with China. it left me pretty confounded as to why they think that's the optimal solution. Like this statement down here. Look I'm all for defending our allies the Taiwanese government but not at price of war which is why I think that the status quo now is more preferable than what some people are pushing for.


bensonc120 wrote:

I'm ready for war with China. My tax dollars are paying for our military so I expect our military to defend our Taiwanese ally. China's "hurt feelings" does not and should not determine our foreign policy. There is no reason we should be fearful of openly engaging in diplomacy with our loyal friends and allies.
qwueri 
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Posted 12/5/16 , edited 12/5/16
On it's own, Trump talking to Taiwan's leader isn't all that concerning. It's the demonstrated snub at China following the tough rhetoric he's had concerning arming South Korea and Japan with nukes and effectively starting a trade war with China through tariffs that's concerning. Going to war with either China or Russia feels pretty remote right now, but not nearly so far off if he follows up on what he's said during the campaign that could destabilize Asia and Europe.
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Posted 12/5/16 , edited 12/5/16

bensonc120 wrote:


rawratl wrote:

Why is it most people flew into a panic at the thought of angering Russia (electing Hillary), but pissing off China is no big deal?


Because China has no right to be pissed off about a phone call when they themselves are conducting "military exercises" on unclaimed islands in the South China Sea to intimidate their neighbors. The people of Taiwan, Philippines, Japan, and other nations have had to deal with China's bully tactics for far too long. The Taiwan Relations Act of 1979 dictates that the dispute between China and Taiwan must be resolved peacefully. For 40 years China has not cooperated while US and Taiwan have abided by the terms, and you are now worried about a freaking phone call? How about every military "exercise" China conducts prior to Taiwan elections over the years? Some of us have lived in both regions and studied this issue in universities. If the only information you know about this issue is via wikipedia then your opinion is useless on this matter. The Taiwan Relations Act is not keeping any peace. The only things keeping the peace is US sale of defensive weapons to Taiwan and also the 7th fleet that patrols the area.


What about Russia and Ukraine/Crimea? Looks pretty similar to what China is doing.

Russia invaded them, why cant China do the same?

Posted 12/5/16 , edited 12/5/16

SnugglesGodOfDeath wrote:

People are blowing the risk of war vastly out of proportion. The Chinese are not going to go to war with us over a phone call.

Throughout the Cold War, there were numerous and documented incidents where the Soviet's almost launched nukes because Gorbachev got drunk and went on a rant. Yet, somehow, we're all still here. There's a reason: war is extremely costly and destructive for both sides.

The Chinese government is run by pragmatic individuals who aren't insane. Therefore, no war over a phone call. If we formally recognized Taiwan's sovereignty as an independent country, the Chinese would be angry, they would threaten us, and they would engage in aggressive "military exercises" but they still wouldn't go to war with us.

Why? Because they don't want their country destroyed any more than we want ours destroyed. When a fight will only result in both parties broken and devastated, there isn't much chance of a fight. Proxy fighting is how the Cold War was carried out for the same reasons. China likes to keep North Korea around so everyone bites their nails over the crazy despot shooting of a nuke but they'd never let that happen either.

The Chinese are simply not suicidal enough to want a war. We can be a bit more aggressive in dealing with them for that reason. Everyone seems to forget that weakness on the world stage invites tragedy. Look at Syria for an example.

Trump is not a war monger and he's not the idiot the MSM want you to think he is. We're so used to weak politicians running things that we've forgotten what actual leadership looks like.


> Well said- finally someone with some common sense it's not like Trump wants to start war? that is the left group is just trying to use as scare tactic's.
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Posted 12/5/16 , edited 12/5/16
The chances of war with China are far slimmer than the chances of war with Russia. Russia doesn't need the US and the US doesn't need Russia. The two nations have much more hostile relations. US has been antagonizing Russia for quite some time, such as putting a missile defense system on their back door step, and the two have practically been fighting a proxy war in the middle east. China and the US are far more linked. While it wouldn't kill either country to break their ties, doing so would cause massive damage to the economic systems of both nations (and most every other nation in the world).
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Posted 12/5/16 , edited 12/5/16
trump standing up to china i'm actually impressed
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Posted 12/5/16 , edited 12/5/16
We all know Taiwan is an independent state and China is throwing a hissy fit. They know as well as we do they have no way to win when it comes to Taiwan. We are literally sending billions of dollars worth of weapons to Taiwan but accepting a call from them is what triggers China? Yeah this is just a political game for them.

Taiwan is Real. We don't even believe or follow the one China policy we signed with them. At this point its all smoke and mirrors. Trump just avoided the nonsense and did what we have been doing for decades now.
Posted 12/5/16 , edited 12/5/16

octorockandroll wrote:


On a completely unrelated subject; tell me more about how Trump didn't have any history with sexual harrassment or assault allegations before running for president.


Fake news.
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Posted 12/5/16 , edited 12/5/16


I understand exactly what you are saying, so let me clarify a little. I completely agree that we have a responsibility to keep China's aggression in the South China Sea in check. My point was more a subtle jab at a lot of the Trump supporters on here who went full conspiracy mode claiming Hillary Clinton being elected meant we were 100% going to war with Russia and that was terrible. Hillary was a war monger and Donald wouldn't cause any conflict at all. His policy as stated before was to let Japan, Korea, and all of the countries we help over there handle their own business. At one point saying he'd just give Korea and Japan nuclear weapons and let them sort their own stuff out since they don't pay us enough. He also claimed he would just let Russia roll over NATO allies and anyone else they wanted, because they too do not pay us enough. Now his supporters loved both of those statements. Im questioning why it is they think conflict with Russia is the worst thing that could happen, but China is no big deal? After all he's starting up tensions before he even gets into office.
runec 
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Posted 12/5/16 , edited 12/5/16

bensonc120 wrote:


rawratl wrote:

Why is it most people flew into a panic at the thought of angering Russia (electing Hillary), but pissing off China is no big deal?


Because China has no right to be pissed off about a phone call when they themselves are conducting "military exercises" on unclaimed islands in the South China Sea to intimidate their neighbors. The people of Taiwan, Philippines, Japan, and other nations have had to deal with China's bully tactics for far too long.


Um. Georgia, Ukraine and hell even Syria would like a word with you.
Posted 12/5/16 , edited 12/5/16

runec wrote:


bensonc120 wrote:


rawratl wrote:

Why is it most people flew into a panic at the thought of angering Russia (electing Hillary), but pissing off China is no big deal?


Because China has no right to be pissed off about a phone call when they themselves are conducting "military exercises" on unclaimed islands in the South China Sea to intimidate their neighbors. The people of Taiwan, Philippines, Japan, and other nations have had to deal with China's bully tactics for far too long.


Um. Georgia, Ukraine and hell even Syria would like a word with you.


Tell them I'm busy.
qwueri 
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Posted 12/5/16 , edited 12/5/16

Amyas_Leigh wrote:

Fake news.



Fake news would be something sensational with zero corroborating evidence or witnesses, like "Donal Trump involved in taco truck pedophile ring".

When you start getting witnesses coming forward, reporting their accusations is not fake.


The earliest accusation of sexual misconduct against Trump came from his ex-wife Ivana, who, during a divorce deposition in 1990, described being violently raped. (Later, without retracting her story, Ivana said that she didn’t mean the word in a “literal or criminal” sense.) Then, this May, the New York Times published a story that detailed a 1996 deposition in the case of Jill Harth, who had worked with Trump on a beauty pageant in Atlantic City, and alleged that Trump had groped her under the table at a business dinner. In the same piece, Temple Taggart McDowell, a former Miss Utah, described being kissed, inappropriately, on the mouth. Then, in early October, Harth gave the Times more details: Trump had kissed her, she said, despite her “desperately protesting,” and had pushed her against a wall.


http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trump-and-the-truth-the-sexual-assault-allegations
Posted 12/5/16 , edited 12/5/16

qwueri wrote:




The earliest accusation of sexual misconduct against Trump came from his ex-wife Ivana, who, during a divorce deposition in 1990, described being violently raped. (Later, without retracting her story, Ivana said that she didn’t mean the word in a “literal or criminal” sense.) Then, this May, the New York Times published a story that detailed a 1996 deposition in the case of Jill Harth, who had worked with Trump on a beauty pageant in Atlantic City, and alleged that Trump had groped her under the table at a business dinner. In the same piece, Temple Taggart McDowell, a former Miss Utah, described being kissed, inappropriately, on the mouth. Then, in early October, Harth gave the Times more details: Trump had kissed her, she said, despite her “desperately protesting,” and had pushed her against a wall.


http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trump-and-the-truth-the-sexual-assault-allegations



Hillary has people going back to the 90s accusing her of being a child rapist too.
The only difference is that the fake news outlets like CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC and FOX didn't air it 24/7, wall to wall like they did the fake Trump accusation 'news'


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pzp6VR7zJ8

This has just as much weight as the lies about Trump.
They're both fake news, used at the convenience of those who want to push a certain narrative.

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