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Post Reply Amazon Go - The Answer To $15/hr Minimum Wage ?
Ejanss 
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Posted 12/9/16

Dogempire wrote:

We're not getting $15 an hour minimum wage with a republican congress and president anyways.


And with a president-elect who hires business CEO's for his cabinet (since those are the only people he knows), and appoints the Hardees exec to DOLabor.
runec 
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Posted 12/9/16 , edited 12/9/16

kinga750 wrote:
So assuming automation and AI do overtake low/middle class jobs, creating massive unemployment, what is the solution? Some liberals have suggested a minimum living wage for everyone, regardless of employment. That would be a massive welfare system


Poverty already has a tangible economic cost. A universal basic income would simply be eliminating all of the various layers and half assed bandaids that are currently slapped on the problem. It is quite literally cheaper for society to give a homeless person a house than it is to have them living on the street.

There's virtually no reason whatever that anyone should have to worry about the basic necessities of food and shelter in a country as obscenely wealthy as the US.
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Posted 12/9/16

runec wrote:


kinga750 wrote:
So assuming automation and AI do overtake low/middle class jobs, creating massive unemployment, what is the solution? Some liberals have suggested a minimum living wage for everyone, regardless of employment. That would be a massive welfare system


Poverty already has a tangible economic cost. A universal basic income would simply be eliminating all of the various layers and half assed bandaids that are currently slapped on the problem. It is quite literally cheaper for society to give a homeless person a house than it is to have them living on the street.

There's virtually no reason whatever that anyone should have to worry about the basic necessities of food and shelter in a country as obscenely wealthy as the US.


I don't disagree. But is simply giving everyone an income the best way to handle the problem? When nobody is working who controls the means of production? Capitalism starts looking pretty ugly here.
Posted 12/9/16
Eventually we will all be given a 'living wage' by the government and robots will keep us around as pets.
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Posted 12/9/16

Sethbbyrd wrote:

Im amazed anyone is angry at an acceptable living wage, but to promote automation and further losses in the workplace is crazy.


It's not crazy at all. Businesses don't exist to pay people, they exist to make the owners a profit, they just so happen need to hire people as a way to make more money and they give that person a wage. If the government says "you have to pay people you hire $15/hr" of course they will try to find some way to negate that cost. It may seem mean or greedy, but it is anything but crazy. If 1 employee makes you $25 profit per hour and now you need to pay them more so you profit say $17.25 per hour now. You still may or may not profit (depending on how much you profited before the wage raise), but if you had the option to replace that employee who is unpredictable and may have good or bad days with an automated system that makes your profit go to $30 per hour or even anything above $17.25 an hour it is a good business decision to make the move. In my example, the business could easily still profit with the wage raise, but why should they give up any of their profit if they can replace the employee and make even more? There are several examples where businesses may be just balancing and raising all of their employee wages will cripple them.
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Posted 12/9/16 , edited 12/9/16
Ah the good old luddite argument. We shouldnt increase productivity, but instead decrease wages to hold that back? Maybe its long overdue to turn some screws and get some of the financial gains earned through increased productivity in the last few decades to fall from the highest rungs of the gilded corporate towers to the rest of us.
When productivity goes up all of our standards of living should be doing so as well. Both major political parties have been complaisant in destroying the working class and benefiting their super wealthy donors so it is no surprise that a majority of us feel like the gov't is screwing us atm.
Posted 12/9/16
If robots replace too many workers, people will have no money to buy things. Then companies won't make money and they will not need robots anymore.
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Posted 12/9/16
I foresee 2 things in the future.

Thing 1: automation becomes so available that no one has a minimum wage job and only those with money to begin with can get a job to repair, maintain, innovate, or just plain old invent new technology. Those running without said automation will be buried under all the dust, so mom and pop shops will cease to be a thing. Ether your a high end collage/training job, or your no job. Needless to say, with our current population, there just plain old won't be enough jobs for everyone, and shit is gonna hit the fan and go flying.

If somehow we survive this, we got thing 2

Thing 2: automation becomes so advance that jobs become a thing of the past. When technology can automate all forms of manual labor, and even skilled jobs such as engineers, doctors and plumbers, almost nothing will need to be done by human hands anymore. Not even repairing the countless robots, scanners, or databases, because other robots, databases and scanners have a job to do that.

Sometimes, I struggle to have such conversations about such stuff with my grandfather, since he won't be around long enough for a lot of crazy theories to even have time to come true, if at all. However, just like him witnessing the birth of the information age, he may be around just long enough to witness the start of the (currently hypothetical by a 1st year student who wants to become a mad scientist) what I call "automated age"

Also Endless Space is quite the 4x game. The Permanent Vacation tech is what helped inspired this crazy little theory of mine.

(do note that all of what I just posted is purely hypothetical and is in no way meant to accurately predict the future in any way. This is more or less inspired by a video game, idealism, and theory crafting from someone who gets totally blindsided by modern economic sciences and technology. All I do know 'decently well' is nutrition and biology.)
Posted 12/9/16
A step in the right direction. Now only if the DMV and other bureaucracies could be just as efficient within the next ten years.
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Posted 12/9/16 , edited 12/9/16
Even security jobs are in danger of being automated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBwki6En--g

https://www.google.com/search?q=california+hospital+robot+guard&client=ubuntu&hs=VFJ&channel=fs&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiR2au_hOnQAhVIxmMKHdpBBrQQsAQIPw&biw=1286&bih=880

Jobs in hospitals are in danger of going away....

http://www.aethon.com/tug/tughealthcare/?gclid=CPi3lq2F6dACFda6wAodWAMM8g

Even Taxi drivers are in danger of losing their jobs....

https://www.wired.com/2016/09/self-driving-autonomous-uber-pittsburgh/

So, NAFTA/TPP/TTIP off-shores our good paying manufacturing jobs. We are told to train for new jobs, but these jobs are being automated..... We're not gonna have any jobs left. What are we suppose to do?
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Posted 12/10/16 , edited 12/10/16

Xxanthar wrote:

If robots replace too many workers, people will have no money to buy things. Then companies won't make money and they will not need robots anymore.


Which will either result in a civilian uprising or force a drastic overhaul of our financial and political system.

Ideally we would just switch to shorter working weeks and perhaps a basic income system, but politically it will never happen. Too much blind faith in purest ideologies.
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Posted 12/10/16
A business will always find a way to increase their profit margins. Automation in many fields that were once exclusively human is in inevitable. Why pay someone $20 an hour when you can either save a ton money with automation or pay some worker in Mexico $3 an hour?

Heck Carrier's CEO admitted they plan on using the newly acquired State funds that were suppose to save 800~ jobs to actually invest in automated systems that will effectively kill many of those jobs.
runec 
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Posted 12/10/16

kinga750 wrote:
I don't disagree. But is simply giving everyone an income the best way to handle the problem? When nobody is working who controls the means of production? Capitalism starts looking pretty ugly here.


I'm not saying pave the streets with money. I'm saying no one should starve or be out in the rain. If you want more than the basics you still need to work. But you should be working to improve your life, not save your life. If that makes any sense.
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Posted 12/12/16

5085trunks wrote:

A business will always find a way to increase their profit margins. Automation in many fields that were once exclusively human is in inevitable. Why pay someone $20 an hour when you can either save a ton money with automation or pay some worker in Mexico $3 an hour?

Heck Carrier's CEO admitted they plan on using the newly acquired State funds that were suppose to save 800~ jobs to actually invest in automated systems that will effectively kill many of those jobs.


this is nothing new

most of us want to earn more $$ for the same amount/hr of work right?

so it's kind of funny how people are having problem with businesses having the same goal-- earning more money as a business

it's almost 2017-- more people want to earn more for jobs that a machine can also do with no medical insurance,pto, etc.. needed
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Posted 12/12/16

kinga750 wrote:


runec wrote:


kinga750 wrote:
So assuming automation and AI do overtake low/middle class jobs, creating massive unemployment, what is the solution? Some liberals have suggested a minimum living wage for everyone, regardless of employment. That would be a massive welfare system


Poverty already has a tangible economic cost. A universal basic income would simply be eliminating all of the various layers and half assed bandaids that are currently slapped on the problem. It is quite literally cheaper for society to give a homeless person a house than it is to have them living on the street.

There's virtually no reason whatever that anyone should have to worry about the basic necessities of food and shelter in a country as obscenely wealthy as the US.


I don't disagree. But is simply giving everyone an income the best way to handle the problem? When nobody is working who controls the means of production? Capitalism starts looking pretty ugly here.


The basis of this is it gives you the BASICS. Just enough food and a roof over your head to survive. You will never get an iPhone or a new gaming rig.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution. Emphasis on profit being distributed among the society or workforce to complement individual wages/salaries." This is the philosophy of socialism. You get bare bones money, just enough to live, and if you work (depending on what you do/how hard you work) you can compliment your life style.

EX) I graduate university and get a job with the government. I get $15,000 a year for just being a citizen. I make an extra $42,000 from my job. My income is now $57,000 and I can live like that. If I didn't get a job, I would have to live with $15,000 a year, in a small apartment, with just enough food to live.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Socialism A fun read about socialism vs communism.
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