First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
Post Reply Amazon Go - The Answer To $15/hr Minimum Wage ?
43 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
34 / M
Offline
Posted 12/13/16
I've always been puzzled by the assertion that minimum wage should not provide a livable income. Some might imply that it should inspire one to be better, and thus do more with themselves, but we're still going to have menial services that will continue to need handled (and potentially automated) while coming to the realization that all the chiefs do need some indians beneath them. Society simply can not persist if everyone's just a doctor, lawyer, engineer, or other "high value" labor. The consequences of such saturation should also be obvious, where a glut of doctors looking to just make a buck would start practices striving to undercut competition as much as possible. This may sound good for the patients, but what do we do when everyone is treated and said doctors have no hope of repaying their schooling bills?

While it likely won't be in our lifetimes, eventually the world is going to have to begin entertaining more socialistic living practices the more populations grow and technology advances. Barring some world catastrophe that doesn't shrink the population significantly and indiscriminately, the amount of people on the planet is increasing about 1% yearly. And if we're being honest about technology's purpose, this is precisely the point. We want our tech to make lives easier for us and the generations to come. However, people are still gonna keep banging and babies are gonna keep popping out regardless of ability to raise such children or the environment around them yielding a productive upbringing.

No, eventually, working will actually wind up being a form of entertainment for some and not an actual requirement for survival. They'll inevitably be the ones who oversee the robots and come up with new projects for them to undertake as needed. They'll refine existing processes, seeking efficiency, speed, or both. Barring extreme circumstances, the machines will also wind up being self-repairing and maintaining. We're already beginning to see hints of this potential in cars, both in dash notifications or more detailed readings mechanics can get plugging into the system. We certainly won't be Star Trek tier of society anytime soon, but eventually all that can be done on Earth will be done, with the next Wild West being Mars colonization, or maybe one of Jupiter's moons. Nonetheless, for those not familiar with ST, they'd basically "solved" issues like world hunger and poverty, where you could basically do whatever within the confines of the law as a civilian, be it farmer, artist, waitress, school teacher, or whatever... or you could try your hand at their academy, and if you pass, get commissioned somewhere based on your talents and desires. All paths could technically benefit humanity in some manner, even if the results aren't immediately obvious.

And that's no different than today, really. We've just gotta get over the pride that a burger flipper is a waste of human flesh even though he potentially contributed to feeding hundreds, if not thousands, of people in a single day. I get that the current system loves to kick us in the nuts under the "life isn't fair!" catch-all, but has it made some go all stockholm syndrome by forcing us into debt in our 20's, working out of it into the 30's, and then go through the rigors of building a family and finally saving for retirement IF things go as planned? I dunno, feels like we've got more going wrong than minimum wage not being good enough. Nonetheless, being all misanthropic about lazy people, welfare queens, or whatever we wanna call them, doesn't really help. Life is way too complex to just assume and say they haven't picked themselves up by the bootstraps if they're not making $70k+ a year or whatever value we want to declare living comfortably at.
4146 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 12/15/16 , edited 12/16/16
like amazon go-- maybe there will be stores like those buffets

where you can just go in and out and just get the food you want pay for it and go.. no waiter/waitress.. and no tipping needed either

it think they have those vending machines that will give you a hot cup of coffee or cup of instant noodles right after payment ?

instant or pre-cooked foods with few humans as much as possible might be the near future

like it or not.. but that's probably the way to survive in the era with more and more regulations stacking on businesses..

minimum wage, medical insurance, carbon tax, mandatory pto, etc..

so instead of asking what i can do to make this company grow... they are asking "how many paid time off i can get in a year? what benefits are provided for me? etc.. right off the bat

Posted 12/16/16 , edited 12/16/16
Keep in mind that Amazon Go is basically Amazon's testing realm. They're testing the technology in a grocery store environment so that it can be utilized in other stores, eventually. Amazon is probably one of the biggest R&D for automation in businesses to date. While they still have to rely on physical people to box specific things from their warehouse, the machines do about 90% of the work. Humans are merely the "fact checkers" (to make sure that things match to the order and so forth).

Before my current job, I did a lot of programming for automation in a similar environment (machine learning, facial recognization, so forth). Currently, we're at a state where humans are only required to confirm that things are sufficient and correct. Subroutines and systems aren't difficult to write, just execute (mostly because having an application double-check itself isn't necessarily a great idea - for accuracy purposes, but another system designed specifically to cross-check products and inventory wouldn't be too difficult to do). The technology behind automation is far more elaborate than most people really give it credit for - which is kind of funny and scary at the same time.

Why do you think that a lot of people are in IT-focused positions these days? Programming, networking, operations... it was known over a decade ago that technology was going to be the "next big thing". Many parents rejected the notion (for example, my grandparents still think that "computers" are a fad that is dying out), only to regret telling their kids to get into something else. I ignored the hype and jumped right into Computer Science before it became a "thing" that everyone wants to get into - it's also one of the fields that have the most competition.

As for the minimum wage, the problem is that it's meant to be the minimum wage. You're meant to be able to get the bare essentials in life off of it. Currently, $7.25/hour isn't really going to cut that unless you're in an area that has a low income tax, land tax, and so forth. At the same time, I think that some positions make too much when more physically demanding positions make significantly less.

Example:
Director of Infrastructure and Development = $115,000 per year (about $55 per hour - 40 hours almost consistently [sometimes more] = you bring home $6,276.65 (depending on state) after taxes). - You're being paid for knowledge/experience and a flat salary rate.

Fast Food (minimum wage) = $7.25/hour and you're lucky to get full-time status and 40 hours a week ($290 * 2 = $580 per biweekly pay period, will be lucky to bring home $463 per check [depending on state] = $926 per month after taxes). - You're being paid to run around and serving an endless amount of people.

The director in this example is making almost seven times more than the minimum wage guy. So the director ends up donating a lot of money because he/she feels like they're making too much (even after buying needless things and paying the bills). On the other hand, the fast food worker is probably looking to get another part time job just to make ends meet ...

The problem, in itself, is that companies will always want to pay those who "contribute" to the cause more. I've given up a significant amount of my salary before, then after a few cutbacks - they reapplied my salary (I had taken a 45% cut in order to ensure that those who are employed under me had a decent salary - but due to an ongoing acquisition, they were terminated and I was restored the 45% I had given up). But they balanced out this idea because I normally work 50-70 hours a week while the underlings that were terminated would only work the minimum 40 hours per week.

But why does the fast food worker have to work two jobs, a total up to 60-70 hours per week to get significantly less - despite working the same amount (if not more so, on a physical level)? This is where I start to wonder what's going on with the economy.

People blaming NAFTA and TPP and all that stuff seem to believe that manufacturing jobs are the ones that are good paying and will keep America afloat - nope, those jobs are likely to be automated at least 95% within the next 15-20 years (the 5% left will be those who will accept the least amount of pay to monitor/double check the automation's work). TPP and NAFTA only allowed for humans who would be cheaper to pay to take the job of automation - now that those are gone, I'm almost certain that companies will focus on increasing automation and lowering human interaction.



39169 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M
Offline
Posted 12/16/16 , edited 12/16/16
You know.... Amazon is going to make its money, not just by opening more Amazon Go stores. They're gonna make a ton of money licensing this technology to all of the major grocery stores and convenience stores around the world..... So, not only are middle class jobs getting shipped overseas by NAFTA, and the globalist agenda, but even the below middle class jobs will be eliminated.

Are they trying to start a revolt? Are they trying to push the unemployed, and under employed millions who will lose their jobs to this tech to revolution? It will be a revolt against not only the government, but the invisible hand of the globalists that have co-oped our government.

There will be massive loss of jobs. You can't ever say "that is progress" without the irony that poverty will go even worse. People with low paying jobs will get poorer, the shrinking middle class will finally vanish, and the 'merely rich' will become the barely rich. While the 'super rich' owners of these automated shopping centers, hospitals, taxi services, etc get richer and richer.

They need to kill this tech with fire. Kill it with fire!

EDIT:

I see I'm not the only one that has seen the writing on the wall:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz65RFAQ4N8
Posted 12/16/16 , edited 12/16/16

DeadlyOats wrote:

You know.... Amazon is going to make its money, not just by opening more Amazon Go stores. They're gonna make a ton of money licensing this technology to all of the major grocery stores and convenience stores around the world..... So, not only are middle class jobs getting shipped overseas by NAFTA, and the globalist agenda, but even the below middle class jobs will be eliminated.

Are they trying to start a revolt? Are they trying to push the unemployed, and under employed millions who will lose their jobs to this tech to revolution? It will be a revolt against not only the government, but the invisible hand of the globalists that have co-oped our government.


Even if you kill off NAFTA/TPP or any other "globalist agenda" - you're going to be faced with jobs being automated. Even the jobs that Trump "saved" at Carrier - Carrier's parent company has said that the tax breaks that they're getting from the government to "save these jobs" will be put into automation of the factory - the jobs saved are the "checkers" that I mentioned in my post above yours. It's not just this particular technology - it's the progress of all technology.

We've allowed ourselves to focus more on evolution through technology that corporations/companies are starting to realize that they're going to save a lot of money by getting rid of the "human component". It's cheaper to purchase technology and a maintenance warranty than it is to keep paying a human as long as they're employed at your company.


DeadlyOats wrote:

There will be massive loss of jobs. You can't ever say "that is progress" without the irony that poverty will go even worse. People with low paying jobs will get poorer, the shrinking middle class will finally vanish, and the 'merely rich' will become the barely rich. While the 'super rich' owners of these automated shopping centers, hospitals, taxi services, etc get richer and richer.

They need to kill this tech with fire. Kill it with fire!


There's a difference between technological progress and progress of society. Entry level positions will become even more difficult to obtain as more and more companies realize the cost-saving benefits of having technology perform most of those positions via automation. You're not going to be able to "kill this tech with fire" (unforunately, that's not how the tech industry works at all). You either can learn how to code or you can learn how to maintain these systems - those are your only saving grace when it comes to technological progress. Just like any other market - you have to make yourself needed. Imagine supermarkets and convenience stores that are fully automated through similar "Amazon Go" technology. Amazon isn't the only company that's working on such automation - they're just the first ones to try it out in a practical, customer-facing environment. "This tech" has been around for quite some time, it's finally getting to the advanced level where it can actually be utilized on a full-scale production model (even if for testing purposes).

I guess the best I can say is "get used to it". It's not going away and the only way you can really jump ahead of it is to become one of the types that performs maintenance on these systems. It won't just be entry-level positions that are at risk when it comes to supermarkets and "superstores" (Target/Walmart) - but all retail positions (store management as well). Why would you pay a manager at a Wal-Mart $75,000 a year when they're only making sure that the automated systems are up and running? They're no longer managing people - which is why there's a human component there. There'd just be an IT specialist on-site that would be ensuring that these things are working. Imagine a grocery store with no checkout, no human interaction, and the security guards are simply several robots that monitor the area? We're headed in that direction. Maybe not in the next 5 or 10 years, but it's coming eventually.
7 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
19 / M
Offline
Posted 12/16/16 , edited 12/16/16
In Hungary (where I live) the minimum wage is 1.5$/hr(500 HuF/hr).So, would you be so kind and not complain?
4146 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 12/16/16 , edited 12/16/16
interesting videos i saw

How the Minimum Wage Hurts Young People
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-t_D_R08eU

i actually have the same belief-- why hire something when you can do it yourself


Are Regulations Causing Pain at the Pump?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWJnVDnTpCw
Posted 12/16/16

MurlockKnight wrote:

In Hungary (where I live) the minimum wage is 1.5$/hr(500 HuF/hr).So, would you be so kind and not complain?


The cost of living in Hungary is also 44.9% lower than the cost of living in the United States. $1.50 USD per hour is about 20% of the minimum wage in the US at the moment ($7.25). To compare, you'd have to have a minimum wage of $0.36 USD (about 107HUF) per hour. That's kind of how the US is functioning at the moment. Not to say that Hungary doesn't have its fair share of complications and issues (just like the US) - but numbers alone doesn't make for "would you be so kind and not complain". Economics is tricky like that.

4146 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 12/16/16
yup.. that is how you can make a lot of profits this way

made in asia or countries with low income is the best way to make good profits

an iphone will cost around $280 .. yet they are selling it back for $700-$900.. and instead of dropping the price over time. they just release new model.

this is why "saving American jobs" is pretty hard.. since they don't have a lot of laws over there and i doubt they are paying people US minimum wage over there

people are making $4-$7 a day to make electronics that we are paying an arm and a leg for here..

$700-$900 is a week worth of salary for some people..
41372 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
37 / M / US
Offline
Posted 12/16/16
Any job that can be automated will be eventually. And yes higher wages press that sooner. But this is going to occur eventually no matter what.

I'm guessing most people don't think all this though, if you abolished the minimum wage you would likely see high employment but lower spending (large amounts of people making less will spend less, because they have less to spend) You would likely see a rise in unions to protect peoples pay. You would need to rethink your social safety nets, and your tax revenue (which would go down, lower wages less taxes). It in itself wont stop globalism because an employer may still move the job out of the country if they find an even cheaper one. And eventually if it can be automated or becomes obsolete then the job is gone anyways. I'm not saying either is good or bad but both have good and bad points to them.

Personally I think we are coming to the point due to automation that we will need to consider a national wage and single payer healthcare. Otherwise what are we going to do with high unemployment causing people to buy nothing creating a global recession. We have to have people with money to spend to keep spending money to create profits and taxes.
2523 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Minnesota
Offline
Posted 12/16/16

ninjitsuko wrote:

The cost of living in Hungary is also 44.9% lower than the cost of living in the United States. $1.50 USD per hour is about 20% of the minimum wage in the US at the moment ($7.25). To compare, you'd have to have a minimum wage of $0.36 USD (about 107HUF) per hour. That's kind of how the US is functioning at the moment. Not to say that Hungary doesn't have its fair share of complications and issues (just like the US) - but numbers alone doesn't make for "would you be so kind and not complain". Economics is tricky like that.



Wait, how did you get to that number? I get $3.26/hr which would put their minimum at less than half our minimum, taking into account the reduced cost of living.
15049 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 12/16/16 , edited 12/16/16
Posted 12/16/16

billiam135 wrote:

Wait, how did you get to that number? I get $3.26/hr which would put their minimum at less than half our minimum, taking into account the reduced cost of living.


I worked with their current percentage of their minimum wage to the current difference of cost of living in the US. If you take from what they have now and reduce the remaining percentage (as this is kind of how America handles it's supposed numbers on "what constitutes the cost of living adjustments") - you come to my number.

If you work out the different of cost of living versus our minimum wage - you'll get your number ($3.26/hour).

I was hoping someone would notice what I did - this is exactly how our government in the US determines what should be calculated as per "cost of living" versus the current "minimum wage". That's why increases have always been incremental, versus a large sum at once (like you'll never seen a $15/hour minimum wage come from a national $7.25/hour one - it'll have to get there gradually because their numbers don't show that people need that much at this time).
7 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
19 / M
Offline
Posted 12/16/16
Oh boi our goverment is corrupt enough to say we have our shair of problems aswell (we have borrowed about 10 billion dollars for an extension of an already existing nuclear power plant from Russia, our country is probably in a debt for years and thats one thing out of our many issues..... )
31101 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / United States
Offline
Posted 12/16/16

Ryulightorb wrote:

Hopefully at one point we can get rid of working nearly altogether and put people on a universal income.

the job i am planning to go into will help make this dream a reality hopefully.


First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.