First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  Next  Last
#DumpStarWars?
12145 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
20 / M / Winnipeg, MB.
Offline
Posted 12/9/16 , edited 12/10/16

foraslan wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:

...you didn't see the movie did you?


The Force Awakens? Yes, I did.


Are you sure? Because as I recall Finn did not join the order, or whatever those losers were called, willfully. He was a slave, raised to fight and obey orders. Not much of a contradiction to the whole Empire/nazi analogy if you ask me.
47839 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / F / SC
Offline
Posted 12/9/16 , edited 12/10/16

Potentsaliva wrote:

I once took a dump while watching a Star Wars movie


you watched it in your bathroom?

or is the toilet in your living room....

which is it
14225 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 12/9/16 , edited 12/10/16
i mean, i don't know the full context of the tweet and i'm not exactly an expert on star wars lore either . . . but the impression i get is not that he's saying "the empire is literally white supremacist" so much as "human supremacy in the star wars universe is a metaphor for white supremacy in the real world". which . . . isn't anything new, or particularly subtle

but either way, it says enough that "white supremacists are bad guys" is a controversial political statement now. i don't think anyone offended by something like that gets to claim they're Totally Not Racist ever again . . .
1515 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 12/9/16 , edited 12/10/16

octorockandroll wrote:


foraslan wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:

...you didn't see the movie did you?


The Force Awakens? Yes, I did.


Are you sure? Because as I recall Finn did not join the order, or whatever those losers were called, willfully. He was a slave, raised to fight and obey orders. Not much of a contradiction to the whole Empire/nazi analogy if you ask me.


A link to Finn's character wikia:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Finn

Based on the quote at the top, it looks less like a race-based slavery than a blanket brainwashing the youth scheme. Scroll down a little to Captain Phasma's quote calling Finn officer material. That doesn't ring of racism either.
30098 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
F
Offline
Posted 12/9/16 , edited 12/10/16

qualeshia3 wrote:

People got problems.


tru
18866 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
35 / M / outer wall, level...
Offline
Posted 12/9/16 , edited 12/10/16
The empire was always whte supremist, and racist. that was the whole point.
12145 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
20 / M / Winnipeg, MB.
Offline
Posted 12/9/16 , edited 12/10/16

foraslan wrote:
A link to Finn's character wikia:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Finn

Based on the quote at the top, it looks less like a race-based slavery than a blanket brainwashing the youth scheme. Scroll down a little to Captain Phasma's quote calling Finn officer material. That doesn't ring of racism either.


I didn't mean to imply that the slavery was based around race necessarily, just that if he's more of a slave than an actual soldier his presence doesn't really make the order any less racially biased.

I didn't know about the Phasma quote though, which paints things in a different light for sure. That doesn't mean I don't find it a bit strange though. I mean aside from his involvement in Poe's escape there doesn't seem to be much about him that makes him look like such a great soldier. I don't recall him contributing much at all in the capture of Poe and he seems to accomplish much more with a lightsaber than with a blaster (and even then, he's nothing all that special) In any case I suppose we will need to see more of the first order before we can say for sure.
1515 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 12/9/16 , edited 12/10/16

octorockandroll wrote:

I didn't mean to imply that the slavery was based around race necessarily, just that if he's more of a slave than an actual soldier his presence doesn't really make the order any less racially biased.


No, it doesn't. By the same token, though, the fact that he is a slave is not evidence of the order's white supremacism unless his slavery is specifically connected to his race, or unless another race is specially exempted from this system. So far, that doesn't seem to be the case.


octorockandroll wrote:
I didn't know about the Phasma quote though, which paints things in a different light for sure. That doesn't mean I don't find it a bit strange though. I mean aside from his involvement in Poe's escape there doesn't seem to be much about him that makes him look like such a great soldier. I don't recall him contributing much at all in the capture of Poe and he seems to accomplish much more with a lightsaber than with a blaster (and even then, he's nothing all that special) In any case I suppose we will need to see more of the first order before we can say for sure.


I agree with this. There are still more films, and of course the studio gets the final say, regardless of minor oddities and plot inconsistencies.
Posted 12/9/16 , edited 12/10/16
wtf the only racism that exist in star wars is aliens vs humans.



1543 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M
Offline
Posted 12/9/16 , edited 12/10/16

Rujikin wrote:

It's because they are changing star wars history so the empire is a white supremacist group -_-;;




Wow it's kind of funny knowing about news 2-3 days before it shows up on here :P


the empire has been compared to the 3rd reich for 30+ years! pay attention!
1543 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M
Offline
Posted 12/9/16 , edited 12/10/16

foraslan wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:


foraslan wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:

...you didn't see the movie did you?


The Force Awakens? Yes, I did.


Are you sure? Because as I recall Finn did not join the order, or whatever those losers were called, willfully. He was a slave, raised to fight and obey orders. Not much of a contradiction to the whole Empire/nazi analogy if you ask me.


A link to Finn's character wikia:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Finn

Based on the quote at the top, it looks less like a race-based slavery than a blanket brainwashing the youth scheme. Scroll down a little to Captain Phasma's quote calling Finn officer material. That doesn't ring of racism either.


the Empire has always been more Human vs Non-Human, rather than Black vs White. But there not above promoting a non-human to higher ranks, though it seems very rare

23204 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
The White House
Offline
Posted 12/9/16 , edited 12/10/16

octorockandroll wrote:


Rujikin wrote:

It's because they are changing star wars history so the empire is a white supremacist group -_-;;




Wow it's kind of funny knowing about news 2-3 days before it shows up on here :P


"Changing"? That's debatable at best. The Star Wars world is filled with aliens and life forms of all different varieties, but the empire is made up exclusively (as I recall anyway) of caucasian dudes. Not to mention the fact that George Lucas himself has gone on record several times saying that the Empire was heavily inspired by Nazis. He even calls them Nazis in the commentary to Empire Strikes Back.

Seriously, how is this news to people?


Yeah.... About that:




Of course they replaced slave labor and brainwashing of the republic with a galactic wide volunteer force. They were inspired by NAZI's but they were pro-human and not pro-white. Really though the only people they butchered in mass were humans/jar-jars on Alderan though... So I'm not sure I can really call them pro-human either.

If anything they were pro-sith and anti-jedi.
39169 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M
Offline
Posted 12/9/16 , edited 12/10/16

foraslan wrote:

It's kind of weird that the empire would have been a white supremacist group, in light of the recent black stormtrooper. I doubt he was a special exception.

And yes, I know that, strictly speaking, the new trilogy is not the 'Empire'. However, the current regime seems very much to be a successor in spirit, and in truth. They kept the uniforms, they idolize Darth Vader, etc. It seems reasonable to assume they kept a similar ideology, as well.


The Empire wasn't a "White Supremacist Group." The Empire was a "Human Supremacist Group." The Sith had always hated aliens and did all they could to crush, enslave, and otherwise exclude the Alien Species. Humans of all races were top dogs throughout the Sith Empire in the Old Republic Era.

It was the Galactic Republic that was all inclusive towards all Species. The Sith tried to avoid defeat by finally allowing Alien Races to have the same status as Humans. It was really rough going, and it was too late. Eventually the Sith Empire collapsed. The Sith disappeared, and the Galactic Republic ruled the Galaxy.

Until Emperor Palpatine, Darth Sideous, came to rule the Galactic Republic. Renaming it to the Galactic Empire (I think, it was renamed). He used a Human Clone Army, and it was Humans who largely made up the Empire's military leadership. So, in essence, Palpatine, Darth Sideous, returned to the old traditional Sith ways...., which included xenophobic tendencies, not racist tendencies.

EDIT:

If you want to know who was at fault for having solely White military officers in the movies, blame Hollywood. They have always been casting White actors, and rarely had people of other races regularly appear in feature films. The Sith Empire, and later, Darth Sideous' Galactic Empire, was inclusive of all Human races. In fact, Humans didn't segregate according to Race in the Star Wars universe, but they sure did discriminate against Alien Species... Even in the Galactic Republic, Aliens found themselves often getting the short end of the stick, in some situations.
1515 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 12/10/16 , edited 12/11/16

DeadlyOats wrote:


foraslan wrote:

It's kind of weird that the empire would have been a white supremacist group, in light of the recent black stormtrooper. I doubt he was a special exception.

And yes, I know that, strictly speaking, the new trilogy is not the 'Empire'. However, the current regime seems very much to be a successor in spirit, and in truth. They kept the uniforms, they idolize Darth Vader, etc. It seems reasonable to assume they kept a similar ideology, as well.


The Empire wasn't a "White Supremacist Group." The Empire was a "Human Supremacist Group." The Sith had always hated aliens and did all they could to crush, enslave, and otherwise exclude the Alien Species. Humans of all races were top dogs throughout the Sith Empire in the Old Republic Era.

It was the Galactic Republic that was all inclusive towards all Species. The Sith tried to avoid defeat by finally allowing Alien Races to have the same status as Humans. It was really rough going, and it was too late. Eventually the Sith Empire collapsed. The Sith disappeared, and the Galactic Republic ruled the Galaxy.

Until Emperor Palpatine, Darth Sideous, came to rule the Galactic Republic. Renaming it to the Galactic Empire (I think, it was renamed). He used a Human Clone Army, and it was Humans who largely made up the Empire's military leadership. So, in essence, Palpatine, Darth Sideous, returned to the old traditional Sith ways...., which included xenophobic tendencies, not racist tendencies.

EDIT:

If you want to know who was at fault for having solely White military officers in the movies, blame Hollywood. They have always been casting White actors, and rarely had people of other races regularly appear in feature films. The Sith Empire, and later, Darth Sideous' Galactic Empire, was inclusive of all Human races. In fact, Humans didn't segregate according to Race in the Star Wars universe, but they sure did discriminate against Alien Species... Even in the Galactic Republic, Aliens found themselves often getting the short end of the stick, in some situations.


Interesting. But what about Darth Maul, and other alien sith?
2240 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 12/10/16 , edited 12/11/16

DeadlyOats wrote:

The Empire wasn't a "White Supremacist Group." The Empire was a "Human Supremacist Group." The Sith had always hated aliens and did all they could to crush, enslave, and otherwise exclude the Alien Species. Humans of all races were top dogs throughout the Sith Empire in the Old Republic Era.

It was the Galactic Republic that was all inclusive towards all Species. The Sith tried to avoid defeat by finally allowing Alien Races to have the same status as Humans. It was really rough going, and it was too late. Eventually the Sith Empire collapsed. The Sith disappeared, and the Galactic Republic ruled the Galaxy.

Until Emperor Palpatine, Darth Sideous, came to rule the Galactic Republic. Renaming it to the Galactic Empire (I think, it was renamed). He used a Human Clone Army, and it was Humans who largely made up the Empire's military leadership. So, in essence, Palpatine, Darth Sideous, returned to the old traditional Sith ways...., which included xenophobic tendencies, not racist tendencies.





foraslan wrote:

Interesting. But what about Darth Maul, and other alien sith?


This conversation is more interesting to me than the actual thread topic. I hope a real Star Wars lore guy can chime in here at some point. I don't know much about it myself, but have always found it really interesting.

Can the Sith be broadly categorized as an organization? There's the Sith Empire, but aren't the Sith more of a philosophical movement in the Old Republic era and forward? I feel like that has to be the case, since there's actually a pureblood Sith race that isn't human (actually look kind of like red demons). And after Bane weren't there all kinds of non-human Sith lords? I wonder if we can broadly say that the Sith are Xenophobic towards aliens if it's a philosophy started by an alien civilization. The various Sith empires have been consistently xenophobic though, which is kind of odd, now that I think about it.

Darth Maul was one such non-human Sith in Bane's lineage, along with Plagueis, Sidious' own master, IIRC.

Maybe Sith are just supremacists for whatever species happen to be in the ruling faction? Humans supremacy under Palpatine or the Sith lords of the Old Republic, Sith Pureblood supremacy under the original Sith empire, Rakatan supremacy under the Infinite Empire, etc?

Could be that the Sith philosophy encourages supremacy naturally for whoever has power than for humans specifically, maybe?

Again, I really don't know, but I'm curious.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.