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Post Reply People on this forum need to learn how to make actual points in a real discussion
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Posted 12/10/16
Hm i think this discussion is pretty much beyond me.
well not really its just im lazy to read all of this chaos but i am interested on knowing whats currently happening in this discussion i hope someone can do a recap for me. lol
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35 / M
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Posted 12/10/16
"People on this forum need to learn how to make actual points in a real discussion"

More like people on every forum these days.
This guide, while well-intentioned, is probably going to have no impact because the people that should benefit from it are the sorts that don't care to.

In the end, one just has to accept the fact that attempting to have any sort of intelligent discourse with people on the Internet is doomed to failure.
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Posted 12/10/16

ahatestory wrote:

"People on this forum need to learn how to make actual points in a real discussion"

More like people on every forum these days.
This guide, while well-intentioned, is probably going to have no impact because the people that should benefit from it are the sorts that don't care to.

In the end, one just has to accept the fact that attempting to have any sort of intelligent discourse with people on the Internet is doomed to failure.


It's not all a lost cause. I have had productive discussions in certain parts of some threads before. I have managed to have someone reconsider before, but that's not the biggest benefit. I did have instances where I was able to bounce ideas back and forth with people who were genuinely interested in the topic. I had an opportunity to consider an aspect of my view that I have not considered before.
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Posted 12/10/16 , edited 12/10/16

nanikore2 wrote:

Next time, try 11 forum pages straight (in a single thread) of what I'm talking about. Then come back and talk about how clean your mental space gets.

The link is right in the OP. I don't think you bothered reading the post.


I read your post but I didn't bother to click on the links provided. Your point was moot; but, I agreed with the general idea. However, I don't think you understand just how impractical your post really is. It's nice and sweet when you think about it, but it's impractical. It seems to me that an endless amount of BS in online forums has jaded you; and, you're talking from a point of frustration. Either way, good luck spreading your notion of a valid discussion.
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Posted 12/10/16

Ununoctium wrote:

I read your post but I didn't bother to click on the links provided. Your point was moot; but, I agreed with the general idea. However, I don't think you understand just how impractical your post really is. It's nice and sweet when you think about it, but it's impractical. It seems to me that an endless amount of BS in online forums has jaded you; and, you're talking from a point of frustration. Either way, good luck spreading your notion of a valid discussion.


When it comes to practicality in a forum, who is being more practical right at this moment- Me, posting something someone might or might not consider, or you, telling me in effect the futility of something which I've already done?
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Posted 12/10/16

nanikore2 wrote:


Ununoctium wrote:

I read your post but I didn't bother to click on the links provided. Your point was moot; but, I agreed with the general idea. However, I don't think you understand just how impractical your post really is. It's nice and sweet when you think about it, but it's impractical. It seems to me that an endless amount of BS in online forums has jaded you; and, you're talking from a point of frustration. Either way, good luck spreading your notion of a valid discussion.


When it comes to practicality in a forum, who is being more practical right at this moment- Me, posting something someone might or might not consider, or you, telling me in effect the futility of something which I've already done?


What you're trying to achieve is futile anyway. GG though.
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19 / F / Everywhere
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Posted 12/10/16
Ah, wouldn't that be nice... intelligent debate on the internet...
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25 / M / USA
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Posted 12/10/16
That's a mighty fine fantasy yah got there.

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Posted 12/10/16 , edited 12/10/16

Ununoctium wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


Ununoctium wrote:

I read your post but I didn't bother to click on the links provided. Your point was moot; but, I agreed with the general idea. However, I don't think you understand just how impractical your post really is. It's nice and sweet when you think about it, but it's impractical. It seems to me that an endless amount of BS in online forums has jaded you; and, you're talking from a point of frustration. Either way, good luck spreading your notion of a valid discussion.


When it comes to practicality in a forum, who is being more practical right at this moment- Me, posting something someone might or might not consider, or you, telling me in effect the futility of something which I've already done?


What you're trying to achieve is futile anyway. GG though.


What, venting? Of course I achieved it


PrinceJudar wrote:

That's a mighty fine fantasy yah got there.



It happened in parts of some threads before. Granted, the topics were philosophical and that helped.


FruitPunchSamurai987 wrote:

Ah, wouldn't that be nice... intelligent debate on the internet...


http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-954793/artificial-consciousness-is-impossible?pg=5#54034921
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35 / M
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Posted 12/10/16

nanikore2 wrote:


ahatestory wrote:

"People on this forum need to learn how to make actual points in a real discussion"

More like people on every forum these days.
This guide, while well-intentioned, is probably going to have no impact because the people that should benefit from it are the sorts that don't care to.

In the end, one just has to accept the fact that attempting to have any sort of intelligent discourse with people on the Internet is doomed to failure.


It's not all a lost cause. I have had productive discussions in certain parts of some threads before. I have managed to have someone reconsider before, but that's not the biggest benefit. I did have instances where I was able to bounce ideas back and forth with people who were genuinely interested in the topic. I had an opportunity to consider an aspect of my view that I have not considered before.


I agree it's not entirely a lost cause. However, considering the time and effort one can invest in attempts at actually engaging people in productive discussions, one must question whether enough is gained from the attempts to be worth the while.

In my experience, the success rate tends to be abysmally low, to the extent that it's not worth the bother. I do forget that every once in a while and need a refresher on the pointlessness of the endeavor; luckily, it only takes about one thread to remind me.
Posted 12/10/16
Wait... Are people not allowed to post pictures anymore, and aren't supposed to respond semi-jokingly? I'm confused about the reported posts.



Anyway; it's unreasonable to expect formal debates in informal settings.
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Posted 12/10/16

nanikore2 wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:

Well what they choose to do is not up to you at the end of the day.

Plus you are hypocritical you deny truth when it is given to you at times so being annoyed people don't know how to make actual points is kinda...sad?

I'm sick and tired of hearing the word fallacies spouted out at this point to be honest it's usually the ones acting smart who can't contribute properly to a conversation or make actual points from my observations.



"Denying truth"? You mean the time when I pointed out to you that Quora link you posted had an invalid point because the scientist was abusing definitions? Did you read the textbook link or not?

Stop attacking my person or I will report again.


Rujikin wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


Xxanthar wrote:

What's your point?


Learn how to argue correctly.


Is there a way to get people to read your arguments correctly? It's pretty pointless to argue correctly when people don't care to read what you post unless its in image format.


If they can even start with such an effort when they debate,, we'd be most of the way there already.


I'm not attacking your person i'm just stating facts sorry if you take it so personal its not just you many people on this site deny things when truth has been provided.

I'm not allowed to point out you being hypocrite or i will get reported?
Let's ban half the site if we are going to do that.

As far as i know their is nothing wrong with pointing out hypocrisy if there is i will modify my comment so it doesn't reference you and just references users on this site :)

Also it wasn't an invalid point as many people pointed out to you but that is a seperate conversation i do not wish to spike because i don't want to deal with ignorance by choice.
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Posted 12/10/16

aeb0717 wrote:

Wait... Are people not allowed to post pictures anymore, and aren't supposed to respond semi-jokingly? I'm confused about the reported posts.



Anyway; it's unreasonable to expect formal debates in informal settings.


Apparently not everyone these days is quick to yell and cry and take offence.

you can't even point people out on it without someone reporting you as seen in this thread and many others.

It's worrying how the world is turning out i wish it was just cr
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Posted 12/10/16

PrinceJudar wrote:

That's a mighty fine fantasy yah got there.



still not as good as the final fantasy
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Posted 12/10/16 , edited 12/10/16

Ryulightorb wrote:


Also it wasn't an invalid point as many people pointed out to you but that is a seperate conversation i do not wish to spike because i don't want to deal with ignorance by choice.


I answered all of your points and all of their points.

READ. THE. POST.

Here it is again:


Last but definitely NOT least, because so many people have used this on me:

5. "I proved you wrong already!" (...NO. I already stated rejoinders and/or counterarguments in response)

Just because you offered a counterargument doesn't mean you 'proved" anything. The response to another counterargument isn't "I proved it!" or "many other people in the thread proved it too!" but to provide a better point which is superior in quality (e.g. in logic, in explanatory power, in substantiation, et cetera) to the previous point in the argument. When you have one answer, that's not the end! Be prepared for another answer from the other side.

Some people in this forum clearly do not understand what a "proof" is, or what a counterargument is.

The worst example of this was when someone pasted a Quora link to some neuroscientist making a claim counter to mine. I subsequently posted a link to a textbook explaining how that samesaid scientist misused the terms under discussion which rendered his point useless. Then the CR user kept saying over and over how "I have proved you wrong! Others in the forums have proved you wrong! I already showed you (with that link with the bad argument) that you're wrong! It's useless for anyone to argue with you!"

That wasn't the first or last time it has happened.
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