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Post Reply Massive Voter Fraud in Michigan, Voter ID law coming
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Posted 12/11/16

uncletim wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:

I worry about you guys...

This is all the alt right has in their sad pathetic lives let them have it


Let's not pretend this is a problem that's caused by where people lie on an arbitrary spectrum. This is very clearly caused by the attitudes of the American population, as evidenced by the fact that both sides there have had an absurd amount of bullshit they've been doing lately. Way too many people there are way too angry at the other side, and then think that lets them justify bullshit like this. When you try to make it look like it's the fault of one of the sides in particular you are only fanning that proverbial flame.
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Posted 12/11/16
The recount was canceled because of a court decision that Jill Stein is not an “aggrieved” party, not because of fraud.
As far as the ballot discrepancy, misplaced ballots are not fraud.
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/12/10/what-if-michigan-held-key-presidential-election/95142214/


That WND site is crap as far as real news is concerned. Check out the front page story:
TESTING THE FAITH
Christian computer scientist: Jesus to return in 3 weeks
Based on biblical pattern of following Sabbath

The Southern Poverty Law Center has accused the website of being a source of "anti-government conspiracy theories, gay-bashing, anti-Muslim propaganda, and End Times prophecy".
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Posted 12/11/16 , edited 12/11/16
By law, during a recount the number of votes on the books must match the votes counted, or re counted. If there is a disparity between those two numbers then the difference is not counted. 1,000 votes recorded with only 750 votes re counted in a district then 250 just won't count.

They stopped the count as they discovered that the recount wouldn't have changed a thing. From what I've read Hillary would have only gained around 50 votes as it was.
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Posted 12/11/16

verdstein wrote:

The recount was canceled because of a court decision that Jill Stein is not an “aggrieved” party, not because of fraud.
As far as the ballot discrepancy, misplaced ballots are not fraud.
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/12/10/what-if-michigan-held-key-presidential-election/95142214/


That WND site is crap as far as real news is concerned. Check out the front page story:
TESTING THE FAITH
Christian computer scientist: Jesus to return in 3 weeks
Based on biblical pattern of following Sabbath

The Southern Poverty Law Center has accused the website of being a source of "anti-government conspiracy theories, gay-bashing, anti-Muslim propaganda, and End Times prophecy".


Wait, Jesus is returning in 3 weeks?!!! Where has the time gone...I could have sworn that was supposed to be months from now.
Posted 12/11/16

ishe5555 wrote:


Wait, Jesus is returning in 3 weeks?!!! Where has the time gone...I could have sworn that was supposed to be months from now.



Wow, I better stock up on booze, weed and strippers!
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Posted 12/11/16

ernestelm wrote:

Oops I didn't get CNN permission, I'll make sure to ask them next time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DcATG9Qy_A

Wait, what does CNN have to do wit-..... Oh I get it. Because I have a differing opinion than your (alt-right) own, I'm automatically a part of the opposing school of thought (liberal). Also, what does Windows have to do with installing gentoo? Are you even trying to GNU+Linux? Are you going to install gentoo or stick with baby's first distro?
pls respond

If the bait is bad, maybe try not taking it next time ;^)


CNN didn't approve my use of that source so it's obviously illegal to look at. I need to get CNN approval for it to be legitimate news.

Nope. Mint does what I need it to do. No point in randomly switching to gentoo because some random forumer wanted me to.

Pfft if I don't take the bait I will starve. Even bad bait is still bait.


sundin13 wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


sundin13 wrote:

Doesn't really sound like a voter ID issue. Sounds like a fraud thing (if it is something after all).


Not this time. It's more prevalent in Southern states but still having an ID to vote is a good thing. It is still fraud and we need to figure out how such a thing could happen and stop it.


Voter ID is a lot more contentious than that, and for good reason. Either way you have issues. Without voter ID laws you run an increased risk of voter fraud (although I believe most of this can be accounted for by shoring up the systems surrounding voting). With voter ID laws you run the risk of disenfranchising voters (typically poor, minority voters).

Yes, there are issues with the current system but voter ID laws are far from a cure-all.


We have a BMV pretty much everywhere. In the USA you have to have an ID for just about everything. Can't even get a job without one. Really everyone in the nation should have an ID if only to get a job. We already have the BMV who can produce them cheaply. Let's just give every citizen 1 free ID every 5-10 years, it would be one of the best uses of tax dollars in history.
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Posted 12/11/16

Rujikin wrote:

We have a BMV pretty much everywhere. In the USA you have to have an ID for just about everything. Can't even get a job without one. Really everyone in the nation should have an ID if only to get a job. We already have the BMV who can produce them cheaply. Let's just give every citizen 1 free ID every 5-10 years, it would be one of the best uses of tax dollars in history.


If we had a system which ensured that everyone had an ID, voter ID laws would work a lot better. I can agree with that. Unfortunately, we don't have a system that works in place currently and most voter ID laws I have seen have not included provisions to support improvements to these systems.
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Posted 12/11/16

sundin13 wrote:


Rujikin wrote:

We have a BMV pretty much everywhere. In the USA you have to have an ID for just about everything. Can't even get a job without one. Really everyone in the nation should have an ID if only to get a job. We already have the BMV who can produce them cheaply. Let's just give every citizen 1 free ID every 5-10 years, it would be one of the best uses of tax dollars in history.


If we had a system which ensured that everyone had an ID, voter ID laws would work a lot better. I can agree with that. Unfortunately, we don't have a system that works in place currently and most voter ID laws I have seen have not included provisions to support improvements to these systems.


We already have the infrastructure in place with the BMV. We literally just have to give a small amount of funding and pass a law saying everyone gets a free ID every X years.
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Posted 12/11/16

Rujikin wrote:


sundin13 wrote:


Rujikin wrote:

We have a BMV pretty much everywhere. In the USA you have to have an ID for just about everything. Can't even get a job without one. Really everyone in the nation should have an ID if only to get a job. We already have the BMV who can produce them cheaply. Let's just give every citizen 1 free ID every 5-10 years, it would be one of the best uses of tax dollars in history.


If we had a system which ensured that everyone had an ID, voter ID laws would work a lot better. I can agree with that. Unfortunately, we don't have a system that works in place currently and most voter ID laws I have seen have not included provisions to support improvements to these systems.


We already have the infrastructure in place with the BMV. We literally just have to give a small amount of funding and pass a law saying everyone gets a free ID every X years.


Like many other things in America, the process to get an ID is often bogged down by miscellaneous bullshit, whether it is an endless stream of "you need to produce this document" or a schedule which makes the offices rarely open. The system in place is not as rock solid as you are implying and whenever we see voter ID laws coming into place, we see disenfranchised voters not far behind. Until that can be avoided, voter ID laws are massively flawed.
Posted 12/13/16

ernestelm wrote:

This "news" is unsubstantiated. Please go back to /pol/.

Install gentoo. Mint is for children.
*shrugs* I guess you can go watch the state elections director himself walk about it...

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/12/records-many-votes-detroits-precincts/95363314/

State Elections Director Chris Thomas explains a state audit of 20 precincts in Detroit where ballot boxes contained fewer votes than counted in the election poll book.
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Posted 12/13/16 , edited 12/13/16

choppin_broccoli wrote:


ernestelm wrote:

This "news" is unsubstantiated. Please go back to /pol/.

Install gentoo. Mint is for children.
*shrugs* I guess you can go watch the state elections director himself walk about it...

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/12/records-many-votes-detroits-precincts/95363314/

State Elections Director Chris Thomas explains a state audit of 20 precincts in Detroit where ballot boxes contained fewer votes than counted in the election poll book.


"Republican state senators last week called for an investigation in Wayne County, including one precinct where a Detroit ballot box contained only 50 of the 306 ballots listed in a poll book, according to an observer for Trump." "...according to an observer for Trump."

Do you know the definition of unsubsantiated?

I'm not saying that this couldn't be voter fraud; I'm saying that the claims of there being voter fraud are unsubstantiated.
The title of this thread is "Massisve Voter Fraud..." a claim that is nothing more than wishful thinking.

If/when it is determined that there has actually been a case of voter fraud, you can only then say that these claims are substantiated
Posted 12/13/16

ernestelm wrote:


choppin_broccoli wrote:


ernestelm wrote:

This "news" is unsubstantiated. Please go back to /pol/.

Install gentoo. Mint is for children.
*shrugs* I guess you can go watch the state elections director himself walk about it...

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/12/records-many-votes-detroits-precincts/95363314/

State Elections Director Chris Thomas explains a state audit of 20 precincts in Detroit where ballot boxes contained fewer votes than counted in the election poll book.


"Republican state senators last week called for an investigation in Wayne County, including one precinct where a Detroit ballot box contained only 50 of the 306 ballots listed in a poll book, according to an observer for Trump." "...according to an observer for Trump."

Do you know the definition of unsubsantiated?

I'm not saying that this couldn't be voter fraud; I'm saying that the claims of there being voter fraud are unsubstantiated.
The title of this thread is "Massisve Voter Fraud..." a claim that is nothing more than wishful thinking.

If/when it is determined that there has actually been a case of voter fraud, you can only then say that these claims are substantiated


Do you know what you were even responding to? Go click the link and watch the State Elections Director himself speak of this, if you feel the OP link was insufficient. And remember, there's a subtle difference between voter fraud and electoral fraud. This here is called electoral fraud, where the election workers are participating in this. Or are you saying that there's some other reason for 300 votes having 50 some odd actual ballots? "Stuffing ballot boxes" like we see was done here is electoral fraud.

Would "small" or "not massive" voter fraud potentially swing an entire state? Michigan was "close"....on certain pieces of paper...

So they got the Jill train moving too late and missed the deadlines, couldnt hit the marks in PA, and here we see this crap, and now they're talking about "informing" the electors about the CIA's totally unsubstantiated "russian hacking" claim.

Staaaaanks of desperation.
Posted 12/13/16

sundin13 wrote:

Like many other things in America, the process to get an ID is often bogged down by miscellaneous bullshit, whether it is an endless stream of "you need to produce this document" or a schedule which makes the offices rarely open. The system in place is not as rock solid as you are implying and whenever we see voter ID laws coming into place, we see disenfranchised voters not far behind. Until that can be avoided, voter ID laws are massively flawed.


You dont even live here and have no idea what the process is like, or the fact that basically the entire adult population that wants one, has an ID.

It is often bogged down by misc BS like omfg, I have to wait in DMV line, like that's going to actually prevent someone from getting a photo ID.

Disenfranchised voters are what most voters are, who witness their one-party representation say attempted meaningful things, and then make sure their donors and party hierarchy are well represented instead.
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Posted 12/13/16

octorockandroll wrote:Let's not pretend this is a problem that's caused by where people lie on an arbitrary spectrum.


No, it's a problem caused by one side being populated by bullies, racists, misogynists, conspiracy theorists, white supremacists, and, at the top of the heap, the 1%; while the other side is, at worst, pretentious and stodgy. Dismissively believing both sides are equally awful is very convenient for the awful side, which is why they've promoted that concept.

I mean, just look at this. The incompetent twit who has no intention of helping anyone who isn't a rich white man already won the election, and his supporters are still screaming about voter fraud, something that happens about as often as shark attacks in the Mojave Desert. But, see, this is exactly why he won. The republicans have developed such a cultlike following that their constituents have completely lost touch with reality--and, gradually, other people who never had any interest in reality to begin with have joined their cause. Literal KKK members, 9/11 truthers, Gamergaters, the crazier the better.

And so, after years of tricking people into supporting candidates and policies that only help the rich, they've finally gone of the deep end and elected a guy who openly represents all the blind hate and bigotry that was originally just meant as a distraction. It never mattered that he was worse than Clinton in every quantifiable way, especially trustworthiness (he lies about things he said on live TV the same day, for heaven's sake). He said what people wanted to hear, and Clinton came off as boring to the anti-intellectualist crowd, and that was that.

Half the country has straight-up lost their minds. There are reasons for that, of course--mainly economic abandonment caused by rapid globalization and automation--but the fundamental problem is that Trump is not going to help anyone but himself. He's a massive narcissist obsessed with his own wealth who repeatedly bankrupted his own businesses, made most of his exaggerated money through scams and reality TV, and we expect him to fix our economy? What a depressing joke. Our only real hope is that he screws up so disastrously that his voters come to their senses and realize that rich people are not their friends. But I wouldn't count on it. After all, they still worship Reagan.
lawdog 
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Posted 12/13/16

kotomikun wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:Let's not pretend this is a problem that's caused by where people lie on an arbitrary spectrum.


No, it's a problem caused by one side being populated by bullies, racists, misogynists, conspiracy theorists, white supremacists, and, at the top of the heap, the 1%; while the other side is, at worst, pretentious and stodgy. Dismissively believing both sides are equally awful is very convenient for the awful side, which is why they've promoted that concept.

I mean, just look at this. The incompetent twit who has no intention of helping anyone who isn't a rich white man already won the election, and his supporters are still screaming about voter fraud, something that happens about as often as shark attacks in the Mojave Desert. But, see, this is exactly why he won. The republicans have developed such a cultlike following that their constituents have completely lost touch with reality--and, gradually, other people who never had any interest in reality to begin with have joined their cause. Literal KKK members, 9/11 truthers, Gamergaters, the crazier the better.

And so, after years of tricking people into supporting candidates and policies that only help the rich, they've finally gone of the deep end and elected a guy who openly represents all the blind hate and bigotry that was originally just meant as a distraction. It never mattered that he was worse than Clinton in every quantifiable way, especially trustworthiness (he lies about things he said on live TV the same day, for heaven's sake). He said what people wanted to hear, and Clinton came off as boring to the anti-intellectualist crowd, and that was that.

Half the country has straight-up lost their minds. There are reasons for that, of course--mainly economic abandonment caused by rapid globalization and automation--but the fundamental problem is that Trump is not going to help anyone but himself. He's a massive narcissist obsessed with his own wealth who repeatedly bankrupted his own businesses, made most of his exaggerated money through scams and reality TV, and we expect him to fix our economy? What a depressing joke. Our only real hope is that he screws up so disastrously that his voters come to their senses and realize that rich people are not their friends. But I wouldn't count on it. After all, they still worship Reagan.


Your post is a fantastic example of why the Democrats lost. It features demonization, that old reliable Democratic stand by, name-calling, class warfare, and all the usual Democratic party nonsense, right done to the absurdity of insulting President Reagan. And of course, there are the hysterical statements that instantly cause most neutral observers to roll their eyes. Voter Fraud is one of the most common tools in the Democratic party playbook. It's impact varies from election to election, from state to state, but it is widely believed that it's how LBJ won his first congressional race. There's much evidence that viter fraud was the key in JFK's 1960 victory over Nixon...and the paranoia about that experience and belief is directly what led to Watergate. Examinations of voter rolls by get out the vote drives are always riddled with an extremely high number of "errors". And then we have the recent video of Democratic operatives crowing about their past successes with voter fraud, and their plans to commit it in the past election.

You lost, we won. And Democrats refuse to look at why they lost and why Republicans won. Keep it up all day long. Just don't expect future results to change.
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