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Post Reply Massive Voter Fraud in Michigan, Voter ID law coming
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Posted 12/13/16 , edited 12/13/16

choppin_broccoli wrote:


ernestelm wrote:


choppin_broccoli wrote:


ernestelm wrote:

This "news" is unsubstantiated. Please go back to /pol/.

Install gentoo. Mint is for children.
*shrugs* I guess you can go watch the state elections director himself walk about it...

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/12/records-many-votes-detroits-precincts/95363314/

State Elections Director Chris Thomas explains a state audit of 20 precincts in Detroit where ballot boxes contained fewer votes than counted in the election poll book.


"Republican state senators last week called for an investigation in Wayne County, including one precinct where a Detroit ballot box contained only 50 of the 306 ballots listed in a poll book, according to an observer for Trump." "...according to an observer for Trump."

Do you know the definition of unsubsantiated?

I'm not saying that this couldn't be voter fraud; I'm saying that the claims of there being voter fraud are unsubstantiated.
The title of this thread is "Massisve Voter Fraud..." a claim that is nothing more than wishful thinking.

If/when it is determined that there has actually been a case of voter fraud, you can only then say that these claims are substantiated


Do you know what you were even responding to? Go click the link and watch the State Elections Director himself speak of this, if you feel the OP link was insufficient. And remember, there's a subtle difference between voter fraud and electoral fraud. This here is called electoral fraud, where the election workers are participating in this. Or are you saying that there's some other reason for 300 votes having 50 some odd actual ballots? "Stuffing ballot boxes" like we see was done here is electoral fraud.

Would "small" or "not massive" voter fraud potentially swing an entire state? Michigan was "close"....on certain pieces of paper...

So they got the Jill train moving too late and missed the deadlines, couldnt hit the marks in PA, and here we see this crap, and now they're talking about "informing" the electors about the CIA's totally unsubstantiated "russian hacking" claim.

Staaaaanks of desperation.


I not only watched the video, but actually read the article. Not at any point did it say "This was deliborite fraud. Here is tangible proof that electoral fraud occured." The article states: "It will be investigated". Not: "INVESTIGATION CONCLUDED: ELECTORAL FRAUD"

"I cant think of any other reason than fraud!" Is not proof of fraud, but rather evidence of your own intensions.

This is all speculative. Until there is proof of deliborate fraud, these claims are unsubstantiated as are the "russian hacker" claims. It is not only possible, but very likely that there was tampering involved in this election. However, until we have definitive proof, we can only gather as much information as possible, rather than jumping to conclusions.

It is difficult, but I try to maintain an unbiased opinion. I try to fallow the facts rather than deciding something is true just because I want it to be. If this turns out to be electoral fraud, awesome. If not, awesome. I will simply wait for the investigaion to provide the details, instead of telling everyone, "This is what happened! What else could it be?"

Here is some decent info on the "hacking" stuff, friend:

http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/12/the-public-evidence-behind-claims-russia-hacked-for-trump/

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/russia-hack-election-dnc.html
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Posted 12/13/16

sundin13 wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


sundin13 wrote:


Rujikin wrote:

We have a BMV pretty much everywhere. In the USA you have to have an ID for just about everything. Can't even get a job without one. Really everyone in the nation should have an ID if only to get a job. We already have the BMV who can produce them cheaply. Let's just give every citizen 1 free ID every 5-10 years, it would be one of the best uses of tax dollars in history.


If we had a system which ensured that everyone had an ID, voter ID laws would work a lot better. I can agree with that. Unfortunately, we don't have a system that works in place currently and most voter ID laws I have seen have not included provisions to support improvements to these systems.


We already have the infrastructure in place with the BMV. We literally just have to give a small amount of funding and pass a law saying everyone gets a free ID every X years.


Like many other things in America, the process to get an ID is often bogged down by miscellaneous bullshit, whether it is an endless stream of "you need to produce this document" or a schedule which makes the offices rarely open. The system in place is not as rock solid as you are implying and whenever we see voter ID laws coming into place, we see disenfranchised voters not far behind. Until that can be avoided, voter ID laws are massively flawed.


The purpose of an ID is literally to prove who you are....

Here in hoosierland our BMV's are actually pretty nice and the lines are never long. They have good hours too. I see that as a non-problem as its easily solvable if your state has stupid hours.
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Posted 12/13/16

octorockandroll wrote:

I worry about you guys...


You can rest assured, the only votes being suppressed by these simple "ID" required laws are the fraudulent ones. What's really hard is the voter registration situation where dead people are registering to and voting. There's a number of issues that make it difficult but a simple "ID required" law helps prevent this as the fraud will be caught and those committing the fraud would have to dig a deeper hole with greater risk to go through with it.
Posted 12/13/16
They should dip your finger in that purple ink too so you can only vote once
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Posted 12/13/16

Xxanthar wrote:

They should dip your finger in that purple ink too so you can only vote once


I said the same thing
Posted 12/14/16

ernestelm wrote:


choppin_broccoli wrote:


ernestelm wrote:


choppin_broccoli wrote:


ernestelm wrote:

This "news" is unsubstantiated. Please go back to /pol/.

Install gentoo. Mint is for children.
*shrugs* I guess you can go watch the state elections director himself walk about it...

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/12/records-many-votes-detroits-precincts/95363314/

State Elections Director Chris Thomas explains a state audit of 20 precincts in Detroit where ballot boxes contained fewer votes than counted in the election poll book.


"Republican state senators last week called for an investigation in Wayne County, including one precinct where a Detroit ballot box contained only 50 of the 306 ballots listed in a poll book, according to an observer for Trump." "...according to an observer for Trump."

Do you know the definition of unsubsantiated?

I'm not saying that this couldn't be voter fraud; I'm saying that the claims of there being voter fraud are unsubstantiated.
The title of this thread is "Massisve Voter Fraud..." a claim that is nothing more than wishful thinking.

If/when it is determined that there has actually been a case of voter fraud, you can only then say that these claims are substantiated


Do you know what you were even responding to? Go click the link and watch the State Elections Director himself speak of this, if you feel the OP link was insufficient. And remember, there's a subtle difference between voter fraud and electoral fraud. This here is called electoral fraud, where the election workers are participating in this. Or are you saying that there's some other reason for 300 votes having 50 some odd actual ballots? "Stuffing ballot boxes" like we see was done here is electoral fraud.

Would "small" or "not massive" voter fraud potentially swing an entire state? Michigan was "close"....on certain pieces of paper...

So they got the Jill train moving too late and missed the deadlines, couldnt hit the marks in PA, and here we see this crap, and now they're talking about "informing" the electors about the CIA's totally unsubstantiated "russian hacking" claim.

Staaaaanks of desperation.


I not only watched the video, but actually read the article. Not at any point did it say "This was deliborite fraud. Here is tangible proof that electoral fraud occured." The article states: "It will be investigated". Not: "INVESTIGATION CONCLUDED: ELECTORAL FRAUD"

"I cant think of any other reason than fraud!" Is not proof of fraud, but rather evidence of your own intensions.

This is all speculative. Until there is proof of deliborate fraud, these claims are unsubstantiated as are the "russian hacker" claims. It is not only possible, but very likely that there was tampering involved in this election. However, until we have definitive proof, we can only gather as much information as possible, rather than jumping to conclusions.

It is difficult, but I try to maintain an unbiased opinion. I try to fallow the facts rather than deciding something is true just because I want it to be. If this turns out to be electoral fraud, awesome. If not, awesome. I will simply wait for the investigaion to provide the details, instead of telling everyone, "This is what happened! What else could it be?"

Here is some decent info on the "hacking" stuff, friend:

http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/12/the-public-evidence-behind-claims-russia-hacked-for-trump/

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/russia-hack-election-dnc.html


LOL! Oh my GOD! Look what happened, BY ACCIDENT!!!!

How did such a number of this occur without deliberate action?

And what would the intention behind that deliberate action be?

Cmon, you are playing word games, do you even realize it?



There is tangible proof here, not the speculation of a former cia official getting dragged all over the place and touted as anything remotely resembling a fact.

The CIA even confirmed they did not tell the washington post there was evidence of russian hacking, but here we all are seeing all kinds of discussions about russian hacking.

lol, nytimes....failure...
Posted 12/15/16

sundin13 wrote:



Like many other things in America, the process to get an ID is often bogged down by miscellaneous bullshit, whether it is an endless stream of "you need to produce this document" .


"Why would I have to have documents to prove I am who I say I am to get an ID???"
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Posted 12/15/16

You need an ID in this society. You need it to buy beer, rent a car, fly on a plane, get a job, get welfare checks, or even to borrow a book from the library. Why would it be unreasonable to require one to vote?

Folks against ID laws just want an easy way to vote more than once.
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Posted 12/15/16

Rujikin wrote:
Here in hoosierland our BMV's are actually pretty nice and the lines are never long. They have good hours too. I see that as a non-problem as its easily solvable if your state has stupid hours.


That problem should be solved before the prospect of Voter ID even comes up. It doesn't matter how easy the fixes are if these things still aren't fixed at the end of the day.

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


sundin13 wrote:



Like many other things in America, the process to get an ID is often bogged down by miscellaneous bullshit, whether it is an endless stream of "you need to produce this document" .


"Why would I have to have documents to prove I am who I say I am to get an ID???"


"Bring birth certificate"
"Okay"
"No we meant the original, not a copy"
"Well, fine I guess."
"Oh, we also need your social security card. Original"
"Whatever"
"Oh, and your marriage license"
"..."
"And your husband's death certificate!"


choppin_broccoli wrote:
You dont even live here and have no idea what the process is like, or the fact that basically the entire adult population that wants one, has an ID.


Excuse me? Where don't I live?
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Posted 12/15/16

sundin13 wrote:
"Bring birth certificate"
"Okay"
"No we meant the original, not a copy"
"Well, fine I guess."
"Oh, we also need your social security card. Original"
"Whatever"
"Oh, and your marriage license"
"..."
"And your husband's death certificate!"


you're exaggerating. a simple driver's license should suffice.
a birth certificate means nothing, since you could be born in a different country and acquire citizenship in America.
you could also be born in America and move to a different country, give up your American citizenship for a different citizenship, then come back to America as a tourist without citizenship status. asking for Social Security is going overboard. the other documents you listed are of course, ridiculous.

i'm not sure why you think providing a simple documentation which everyone (of age) carry with them is such a bad idea.

"but not everyone of age have a driver's license"
the driving test, at least in Cali, is a joke. anyone can pass the test. if not the first time, then 2nd or 3rd time.
it's also extremely cheap (iirc like 5 bucks or so)
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Posted 12/15/16

namealreadytaken wrote:


sundin13 wrote:
"Bring birth certificate"
"Okay"
"No we meant the original, not a copy"
"Well, fine I guess."
"Oh, we also need your social security card. Original"
"Whatever"
"Oh, and your marriage license"
"..."
"And your husband's death certificate!"


you're exaggerating. a simple driver's license should suffice.
a birth certificate means nothing, since you could be born in a different country and acquire citizenship in America.
you could also be born in America and move to a different country, give up your American citizenship for a different citizenship, then come back to America as a tourist without citizenship status. asking for Social Security is going overboard. the other documents you listed are of course, ridiculous.

i'm not sure why you think providing a simple documentation which everyone (of age) carry with them is such a bad idea.

"but not everyone of age have a driver's license"
the driving test, at least in Cali, is a joke. anyone can pass the test. if not the first time, then 2nd or 3rd time.
it's also extremely cheap (iirc like 5 bucks or so)


...You do realize that someone applying to get a photo ID wouldn't have photo ID handy, right?
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Posted 12/15/16

sundin13 wrote:...You do realize that someone applying to get a photo ID wouldn't have photo ID handy, right?

getting a photo id is trivial. unless you came to America through a coyote of course.
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Posted 12/15/16
Posted 12/16/16 , edited 12/16/16

sundin13 wrote:


"Bring birth certificate"
"Okay"
"No we meant the original, not a copy"
"Well, fine I guess."
"Oh, we also need your social security card. Original"
"Whatever"
"Oh, and your marriage license"
"..."
"And your husband's death certificate!"


No it went more like

"We need some proof"
"What kind of question is that, of course he's born here"
"ok, give proof then"
"you're racist"
"Cant really prove something without proof, right?"
"You're still racist. But ok, here it is."
"Uh, this is photoshopped, see evidence of alteration here, here, and here"
"Birther!!!!"
"Say what?"
"Racist!"
"Uh, its photoshopped, wtf do you want? He's got a dead man from CT's SSN, and there's photoshop evidence on that not real birth cert that was provided. If we've gone through all this and you give me a provably fake alteration, what do you expect me to believe?"
"Birther! What's wrong with you that you cant accept he's born here!?!?!"
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Posted 12/16/16

namealreadytaken wrote:
getting a photo id is trivial. unless you came to America through a coyote of course.


Still pretty trivial in a sanctuary city like SF. The local government issues ID cards for those illegally present.

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