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Post Reply Full Contact Weapons Combat As A Sport.
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20 / M / Temple of Yaoiism
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Posted 12/12/16
That looks kinda fun.

Seems like too much work to participate in it though.

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The White House
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Posted 12/12/16 , edited 12/12/16
1v1 but no field battles or large armies, sad.



http://dagorhir.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTXC2TWiFWI
Posted 12/12/16
not as fun as anime fights

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27 / M / Your friendly nei...
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Posted 12/12/16
That was awful... its just two people swinging stick at each other. Nowhere near what real combat would be like... they try to use their arms to block the weapons for fucks sake.
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Posted 12/12/16 , edited 12/12/16

DeadlyOats wrote:

This shows promise. What do you think?


Here's the first match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOw6Mwl4r18


Here's their channel.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=unified+weapons+master


So these guys seemed to have developed armor and sensor technology to allow for the judging and scoring of full contact weapons combat. What do you guys think? Will it catch on?


I'll call your sport and raise you a Battle of the Nations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIaHeK9f3YY&list=PL4U_ga-jLb76lzKT7-K7EhoKo-1OW-tpa&index=2
Tay01 
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Posted 12/12/16 , edited 12/12/16
The main problem is that it encourages recklessness, if for example shots scored against you carried over into your next round people would actually be guarded rather than just wanting to score points. Maybe even attaching weights to further penalize recklessness would be good.

The fact that cutting is not calculated and just force is, is just silly.
If you cut a pig corpse with the real version of the weapon and note the damage done, and then multiply that by the force dealt by the weapon in the ring, you can get a general idea of how much damage would be dealt.
Further if you determine how much force is then transferred into the handle of the blade, you can get a good idea on how good the strike was.

Edit: And not putting sensors on the arms/ hands is just a terrible idea.
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Posted 12/12/16

Tay01 wrote:

The main problem is that it encourages recklessness, if for example shots scored against you carried over into your next round people would actually be guarded rather than just wanting to score points. Maybe even attaching weights to further penalize recklessness would be good.

The fact that cutting is not calculated and just force is, is just silly.
If you cut a pig corpse with the real version of the weapon and note the damage done, and then multiply that by the force dealt by the weapon in the ring, you can get a general idea of how much damage would be dealt.
Further if you determine how much force is then transferred into the handle of the blade, you can get a good idea on how good the strike was.

Edit: And not putting sensors on the arms/ hands is just a terrible idea.


Slashes DO COUNT, as well as thrusting (piercing attacks with the tip of the sword). The sensors detect how hard you were slashed, or poked, and that would determine how deep the attack went. If it's deep enough, it counts as a fatal attack.

This is very new tech, and a very new approach to the sport. They are still developing and evolving the tech and their version of the sport. That first battle, was a test run. I'm sure it will evolve even further.

So that maybe instead of tackle football, I mean tackle sword fights, where the object is to knock a player down, or not get knocked down, it will be a contest that requires opponents to skillfully and accurately attack an opponent's vital areas, to get a kill, while defending against an opponent's skilled and accurate attacks.

Sensors linked wirelessly to computers will keep track of who received a killing blow. They'll probably have LEDs to light up the dead player, then they just sit where they died, while the others continue the battle.... That's just me thinking of ideas to use it in team based competitions.

Battles like that will have a whole different way of being fought, instead of just tackling an opponent to score a kill. This will mean that you won't see a player bash another player on the head 15 or 20 times before someone tackles him and then he's considered dead. There will be a lot more incentive to block, parry, dodge, and guard to avoid getting killed.

Tay01 
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Posted 12/12/16 , edited 12/12/16

DeadlyOats wrote:
Slashes DO COUNT, as well as thrusting (piercing attacks with the tip of the sword).

I never said that, I said very clearly "cutting". Further I even stated it is, "just force".

Tay01 wrote:
The fact that cutting is not calculated and just force is, is just silly.


DeadlyOats wrote:
The sensors detect how hard you were slashed, or poked, and that would determine how deep the attack went. If it's deep enough, it counts as a fatal attack.

This is untrue, they have stated that they are not accounting for the cutting potential of the blade just force applied.
In no way does this calculate the depth of the attack (aka cutting).
This is exactly what they said on the opening comment of the video you linked (by the company).

"As some people have pointed out, this was a test event that uses a blunt trauma scoring system. That scoring system is based on medical research including fracture profile data. While we would love to implement an edged weapon scoring system, the data set to do that accurately does not exist anywhere in the world. Perhaps understandable, no-one has done research on how much force is required to sever or seriously injure various parts of the human anatomy with bladed / edged weapons. We have to conduct our own research using proxies for human tissue, like pig carcasses, in order to develop that data set. That will take considerable time and expense. However we have the published medical data for blunt trauma now so that is what we have started with."

To clarify.
This "uses a blunt trauma scoring system"
and they would " love to implement an edged weapon scoring system"
They don't have one.


Tay01 wrote:
If you cut a pig corpse with the real version of the weapon and note the damage done, and then multiply that by the force dealt by the weapon in the ring, you can get a general idea of how much damage would be dealt.
Further if you determine how much force is then transferred into the handle of the blade, you can get a good idea on how good the strike was.


The above addresses their concern about getting the results.

See their concerns bellow
"no-one has done research on how much force is required to sever or seriously injure various parts of the human anatomy with bladed / edged weapons. We have to conduct our own research using proxies for human tissue, like pig carcasses, in order to develop that data set. That will take considerable time and expense. However we have the published medical data for blunt trauma now so that is what we have started with." "

Further evidence they are not calculating cutting data, they don't think it exists "no-one has done research on how much force is required to sever or seriously injure various parts of the human anatomy", further only the plates take in force, if you hit between the plates of arm as one is intend it does not count as is shown many, many times in the video. Especially 3:36. If of course an armour argument was to be stated, if they couldn't cut a dead pig do you really think they are going to bludgeon a suit of armour?


DeadlyOats wrote:
This is very new tech, and a very new approach to the sport. They are still developing and evolving the tech and their version of the sport. That first battle, was a test run. I'm sure it will evolve even further.

So that maybe instead of tackle football, I mean tackle sword fights, where the object is to knock a player down, or not get knocked down, it will be a contest that requires opponents to skillfully and accurately attack an opponent's vital areas, to get a kill, while defending against an opponent's skilled and accurate attacks.


My first and main point of my post addresses exactly this and a potential method of achieving such a result.
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Posted 12/13/16

Tay01 wrote:


DeadlyOats wrote:
Slashes DO COUNT, as well as thrusting (piercing attacks with the tip of the sword).

I never said that, I said very clearly "cutting". Further I even stated it is, "just force".


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/slash




Slash

verb

1. to cut with a violent sweeping stroke or by striking violently and at random, as with a knife or sword.

2. to lash; whip.

3. to cut, reduce, or alter: The editors slashed the story to half its length.

4. to make slits in (a garment) to show an underlying fabric.

5. to criticize, censure, or attack in a savage or cutting manner.

verb (used without object)

6. to lay about one with sharp, sweeping strokes; make one's way by cutting.

7. to make a sweeping, cutting stroke.

noun

8. a sweeping stroke, as with a knife, sword, or pen.

9. a cut, wound, or mark made with such a stroke.


Just saying... Slash and cut can be used interchangeably, and can mean the same thing, depending on context.
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Posted 12/13/16
It sounds great in theory. But in reality they are just flailing their weapons around. They even seem to abandon their sword techniques in favor of just punching/kneeing each other.
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39 / Inside your compu...
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Posted 12/13/16
Bring back the Roman Coliseum. I'm sure at least one member of CR would approve.
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The Grand Line
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Posted 12/13/16 , edited 12/13/16

nanikore2 wrote:

Bring back the Roman Coliseum. I'm sure at least one member of CR would approve.


THANK YOU, I've maintained for years we should replace the elections with a gladiator match between the candidates... hell we could turn the NFL into team battles (the stadiums are already built)
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28 / M
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Posted 12/13/16 , edited 12/13/16
Real fighting isn't fancy or pretty to look at. This is how it worked back in the day of swords and metal armor. The armor isn't THAT heavy when you compare it to....say, full plate mail or o-yoroi. I do not think it is that bulky.

I think this is actually a great development. I hope it takes off in the future and fighters recognize this unique opportunity to apply weapons techniques that previously were difficult to apply due to safety issues. And almost every kind of combat training with weapons will invariably involve kicking, grappling, and punching. It's been long recognized that you may not finish off an enemy with one clean hit and that you have to take things in an uglier direction. There's nothing unnatural or impractical about it.

They could always implement a no-kicking or no-punching rule, too.

Obviously, there will probably be issues to iron out with the lorica itself (sensors, thickness, location of attachments, etc.), but this is a good start.
Posted 12/13/16

descloud wrote:

It sounds great in theory. But in reality they are just flailing their weapons around. They even seem to abandon their sword techniques in favor of just punching/kneeing each other.


Real life is messy, unchoreographed, and by the seat of the pants.


The only thing that wasnt quite right about this was that the scoring seemed go be as if they were unarmored, but obviously the fight took place as if armored. Forearm block of sword, didnt see that get scored as if his arm was off.


All in all pretty cool, this was precisely the sort of thing my brother and I dreamed of as teenagers after bloodying our shins watching Bloodsport.
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Posted 12/13/16
Main issues, in my opinion:

1. Sensor locations. Not enough sensors, but having them all over seems unrealistic as well due to increasing the size of the armor pieces and requiring more of them. Ironheart got a good downward blow on the collarbone in one round but nobody counted it due to no sensors being there. But that kind of cut would have put someone instantly out of commission or at least rendered one arm unusable and caused the victim to bleed out and become exhausted within several seconds.

2. Size of armor pieces. Obviously, thinner pieces that can protect as well as sense the pressure of blows accurately would be ideal. I think as they improve on this aspect, more pieces will be added and, therefore, fighters will be able to have more sensors put on them. I see no issue with overall armor weight.

3. Cutting vs blunt trauma. I think it would be simple for calculations to be done to determine the effectiveness of an amount of pressure exerted by an edged weapon. I get the feeling they will do this in the future. Almost everyone uses a edged weapon in the choose-your-own round so it makes little sense to use blunt trauma only. This is pretty obvious, so I'm sure they'll do something about it.

4. Fighter categories by age, weight, etc. I didn't think it was very fair for someone with significant advantages of height and weight and age to be fighting someone who was almost middle aged. I'm sure they'll do something about this as the roster of fighters expands.

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