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Double standards regarding evidence
Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/19/16
[note from lorreen: I am not the mod who gave Lala permission to start this thread or keep it up initially; I don't know who that was. However, I am currently in the position of having decided to keep it up pending further discussion with mods and relevant staff. While the thread remains open, please don't focus your posts on "Pizzagate" or Holocaust denial. Those were presented merely as examples in a question that really boils down to: Why should we not believe Thing 1 that seems too horrible to believe and yet believe Thing 2 which is also exceedingly horrible. What kinds of evidence lead to believing in one event, yet not another?

I believe the thread was not, unlike some earlier threads, intended to propagate theories about either "Pizzagate" or the Holocaust specifically, but about concepts of evidence, information, belief, and how we can know or trust things that we don't experience personally. If future posts can focus on those bigger concepts then I don't believe there's any reason the thread should not remain open.]



*As this is a very sensitive topic, Lala received permission from a mod to keep this thread up as long as Lala speaks with respect, so please don't try to derail this thread even if it makes you feel uncomfortable.*

After the Pizzagate craze, Lala was revisiting Lala's thoughts on why Lala was so convinced that there was a child-trafficking ring operating at a pizza shop in Washington D.C. Lala still has doubts, though Lala was told by this person that you cannot prove a negative, so it's up to Lala to prove that it's real with direct evidence.

But Lala wondered why. There is so much circumstantial evidence. The surrounding theme of pedophilia in the community is evident. There are people who spoke of it and died in the following year. There are victims who came forward, yet dismissed as a liar. There are people of high credence confirming a pedophilia ring in the government, and labelled a conspiracy theorist thereafter. Even now, tweets are made every second about the conspiracy and flooding the feed calling for the arrest of the Podesta brothers. Many people really believe this is happening.

What the person said is true. Lala learned that in school. You cannot prove a negative, so the people making the positive claim need to provide the evidence. People agreed with Lala in this thread. No matter how much circumstantial evidence there is, how many witnesses and victims come forth, if there is no direct evidence then it cannot be a fact. So Lala was thinking about the human nature of why so many people argue Pizzagate is real, despite lack of physical evidence, such as a corpse of a child. Simultaneously, why so many people argue against Pizzagate, despite the abundance of circumstantial evidence surrounding it.

This reminded Lala of the bandwagon effect. People are less concerned about the truth, but rather what fits their agendas. People are willing to ignore the gaps in their claims, and are more than likely to leap on the bandwagon of conclusive accusations. But the fact remains, circumstantial evidence is not enough to make something a fact. It only warrants skepticism.

Lala realized something. If enough people believed this to be true, it may very well turn into a reality. Within the Pizzagate community, it's pretty much common sense that John Podesta is a pedophile. You'd be laughed off if you thought otherwise. It's human nature to be less considerate of reconsidering an established belief.

This means trouble for Lala. Because if Lala got totally sucked in, Lala would have totally believed it without remaining on the fence until facts are given. But at the same time, it seems so obvious. Lala's brain gets candy when Lala sees an agreeing opinion, so an echo-chamber like the Pizzagate community will make Lala overdose. This is a lesson about human nature: The majority aren't concerned with the truth.

Another example would be the double standards on this forum. Lala made a thread titled "Two days ago it was officially announced that Obama's birth certificate is fake", yet it was renamed by a moderator. Lala thinks this is totally fair, since it's still not proven. Then Lala saw this thread, titled "Experts prove that Donald Trump only won the election because of Russian propaganda according to the Washington Post", which wasn't renamed despite lack of proof. This is another example showing that people are willing to make double standards to suit their personal agenda. This double standard will be important for the following argument.

There is a globally recognized historical event that has only as much evidence as Pizzagate, if not less. It is the Holocaust. Lala doesn't want to believe this, but once Lala realized this double standard, Lala cannot pretend it's not there.

◆No physical evidence of gas chambers

It is established by the world's leading Holocaust historian that, just like Pizzagate, there is no physical evidence of the mass extermination of Jewish people. Meaning, there was no single report of gas chambers in the Nazi concentration camps.

◆No physical evidence of corpses

The ashes of the 6 million, 4 million, no, 1.1 million Jewish were nowhere to be found. No official study has occurred on where the corpses or ashes went.

At this point, Lala can already see that there's no positive evidence for the annhiliation of the millions of Jewish people. Just like Pizzagate, it's impossible for the Holocaust skeptics to prove a negative; so it's the opposition's duty to provide the evidence. On the other hand, the additional circumstantial evidence only reminds Lala of Pizzagate:

◆Hitler's codewords vs. Podesta's codewords

Some people claim that there is no evidence because the orders were given verbally, while others claim that “The Final Solution” was a codeword for the Holocaust. The quality of this evidence is the equivalent to the codewords discovered in Podesta's emails, such as "dominos on pizza than on pasta".

◆Victim testimonials

There are lots of testimonies from victims of the Holocaust, and many were eventually revealed to be false. One of the most famous "survivors" admitted to his lies and said that "it's not true, but it was true in my imagination."

Like Pizzagate, testimony isn't enough to prove that an event had occurred. The bandwagon effect remains a part of the human nature, and there's more than enough incentive for people to hop on a bandwagon of lies.

◆Documentation

Documentation is easily forged and shouldn't be taken at face value when a potential bias is present, as everyone admitted in this thread.

This made Lala think. Is there any reason for anyone to pretend that the Holocaust is a factual event, despite the lack of physical evidence, while stating that Pizzagate lacks the physical evidence under the same grounds? Lala wonders about these double standards. But official debates of the Holocaust is banned under law, which is strange. Political correctness is not an argument. Remember that Obama said this: The only people who don't want to disclose the truth, are people with something to hide.

If you have the spare time, here is a 37-minute video of someone explaining how the claims are close to impossible.
Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16
Pretty sure there were tens of thousand of eye witnesses for the holocaust. There is also movie footage and photos of the thousands of emaciated corpses stacked up in huge mass graves. There were also numerous confessions from people who worked at those camps. There is not more evidence for #pizzzagate than the holocaust.
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Posted 12/18/16
I'm still waiting on any actual, and official, proof to back up any of these claims. You said that it's up to you to prove that it's real with direct evidence, yet all you've offered in your opening post are links to uncredited photos and YouTube videos, and that's hardly hard evidence. So, where is it?
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Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16
The Holocaust did happen though. And if you're trying to say pedophilia is worse and has more evidence than the mass murder of millions, you should see a doctor soon.
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Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16

Xxanthar wrote:

Pretty sure there were tens of thousand of eye witnesses for the holocaust. There is also movie footage and photos of the thousands of emaciated corpses stacked up in huge mass graves. There were also numerous confessions from people who worked at those camps. There is not more evidence for #pizzzagate than the holocaust.


isn't this like the 2nd or 3rd time Lala started a thread claiming the holocaust didn't happen?

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Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16

ran76 wrote:

isn't this like the 2nd or 3rd time Lala started a thread claiming the holocaust didn't happen?



idk but i wouldn't be surprised. I also wouldn't be surprised if they think that the moon landing was a hoax or other weird conspiracies lol
Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16

Xxanthar wrote:

Pretty sure there were tens of thousand of eye witnesses for the holocaust. There is also movie footage and photos of the thousands of emaciated corpses stacked up in huge mass graves. There were also numerous confessions from people who worked at those camps. There is not more evidence for #pizzzagate than the holocaust.


Good point. As Lala explained in the OP, people are more than willing to lie if it fits their agenda, so witness testimony doesn't count as evidence, no matter how large the numbers are. This twitter feed is a real-time example of the bandwagon effect. Bias comes from various angles, including money and vengeance. That's why forensic analysis of evidence still doesn't count as conclusive evidence with regards to Obama's birth certificate, as this person explained very clearly in this post. Further, several people have been caught out for lying, which only damages the credibility of the witnesses. One example would be this man, who had a film made based on his testimony, only to later reveal that he wasn't even there.

Secondly, the video footage still isn't direct evidence. It only shows a mountain of corpses, which could be from a variety of alternative reasons, including disease. It isn't surprising that a lot of people died during WWII. It's still circumstantial evidence, and is about as strong as the evidence shown here, relating to the password protected area of the CPP website. People interpret this to be a page where the child pornography is stored, however there's no direct evidence proving it.
Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16

LalaSatalin wrote:


Secondly, the video footage still isn't direct evidence. It only shows a mountain of corpses, which could be from a variety of alternative reasons, including disease. It isn't surprising that a lot of people died during WWII. It's still circumstantial evidence, and is about as strong as the evidence shown here, relating to the password protected area of the CPP website. People interpret this to be a page where the child pornography is stored, however there's no direct evidence proving it.


Your evidence consists of a bunch of random file names and a password protected section of on a business website? Those files could be backups of the server for all you know.
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Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16

LalaSatalin wrote:


Xxanthar wrote:

Pretty sure there were tens of thousand of eye witnesses for the holocaust. There is also movie footage and photos of the thousands of emaciated corpses stacked up in huge mass graves. There were also numerous confessions from people who worked at those camps. There is not more evidence for #pizzzagate than the holocaust.


Good point. As Lala explained in the OP, people are more than willing to lie if it fits their agenda, so witness testimony doesn't count as evidence, no matter how large the numbers are. This twitter feed is a real-time example of the bandwagon effect. Bias comes from various angles, including money and vengeance. That's why forensic analysis of evidence still doesn't count as conclusive evidence with regards to Obama's birth certificate, as this person explained very clearly in this post. Further, several people have been caught out for lying, which only damages the credibility of the witnesses. One example would be this man, who had a film made based on his testimony, only to later reveal that he wasn't even there.

Secondly, the video footage still isn't direct evidence. It only shows a mountain of corpses, which could be from a variety of alternative reasons, including disease. It isn't surprising that a lot of people died during WWII. It's still circumstantial evidence, and is about as strong as the evidence shown here, relating to the password protected area of the CPP website. People interpret this to be a page where the child pornography is stored, however there's no direct evidence proving it.


by your logic, nothing can be used as evidence... for reasons

Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16

Xxanthar wrote:

Your evidence consists of a bunch of random file names and a password protected section of on a business website? Those files could be backups of the server for all you know.


Lala would like to emphasise, that the following paraphrase is not an attempt to mock you. Lala thinks that you're the only one who offered a valid argument so far in this thread, so Lala respects you more than anyone else:

Your video evidence consists of a bunch of random dead bodies being pushed into a pit? Those bodies could be the corpses of people who died of typhus for all you know.

This is Lala's point. It's only circumstantial evidence, open to interpretation. It's not direct evidence.


ran76 wrote:

by your logic, nothing can be used as evidence... for reasons


That's not true. The people on this website agree that a positive claim needs to be proven by the people making the claim, not the other way around. This is because it's impossible to prove a negative, and this person made the same point in the Pizzagate thread. However, absence of evidence can be used to show that a claim is likely false.
Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16
Lala, do you think the lizard people are involved in this conspiracy in any way?
Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16
If Podesta is indeed a lizard man, I think it would make more sense. Many lizards eat their young and they are not very nurturing parents. The innate indifference toward the young, may explain why they would be involved in such vulgar crimes.
Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16

Xxanthar wrote:

Lala, do you think the lizard people are involved in this conspiracy in any way?


Lala isn't jumping to conclusions, Lala is simply pointing out the double standards of people, regarding the lack of evidence to Pizzagate parallel to the Holocaust. It has nothing to do with lizards, and Lala has no idea why you'd raise the point. History is written by the winners, and teaching false history on a national level is nothing new. Suddenly the commonly accepted phenomenon doesn't apply today? That seems strange to Lala, and Lala has already proven that people aren't as concerned with the truth as you think. Does it seem strange to you that they had to revise the numbers of the Holocaust victims more than 3 times? Originally it was 6 million, now it's down to a million. You started off with some strong points, but now you've resorted to sarcasm. Lala is saddened.
Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16

LalaSatalin wrote:


Lala isn't jumping to conclusions, Lala is simply pointing out the double standards of people, regarding the lack of evidence to Pizzagate parallel to the Holocaust. It has nothing to do with lizards, and Lala has no idea why you'd raise the point. History is written by the winners, and teaching false history on a national level is nothing new. Suddenly the commonly accepted phenomenon doesn't apply today? That seems strange to Lala, and Lala has already proven that people aren't as concerned with the truth as you think. Does it seem strange to you that they had to revise the numbers of the Holocaust victims more than 3 times? Originally it was 6 million, now it's down to a million. You started off with some strong points, but now you've resorted to sarcasm. Lala is saddened.


My words are true and my spirit is free. You should look up Lizard people, if you do not think that they can't be involved with thee.
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Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16
So we went from paedophilia to denying the holocaust in a single post. Congrats OP ya officially insane. And now my brain hurts trying to figure out the inane logic of someone who refers to themselves in the third person.
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