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Double standards regarding evidence
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Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16
Xxanthar has a point about the holocaust. Elie Wiesel didn't write Night for nothing.
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Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16
as far as i can tell, pizzagate is the result of a bunch of random people on the internet with clear political motivations connecting imaginary dots with flimsy if not outright disproven "evidence" to rush toward the most outlandish and sensational conclusion they could come up with. there's a pretty obvious reason the only two heavily overlapping groups it's caught on with are the alt-right and people like lala who seem to believe in every conspiracy theory ever. it's not the most logical explanation for anything that needs to be explained - it's just a fantasy for people who want to believe in anything that villifies a political party they disagree with. could there theoretically be some truth to it? sure, you could say that about literally anything, but that doesn't mean it's remotely likely, and it doesn't mean that these kinds of baseless politically-motivated accusations should be taken any more seriously than "obama eats babies because i don't like him" or something

the holocaust is a completely different thing, and denying it sure as hell doesn't make you sound any more credible. the holocaust was a tangible, well-documented event with very real and lasting effects. there are survivors of concentration camps and people whose ancestors died there still around to testify to it today. even if a few accounts were inaccurate or exaggerated, you'd have to be an idiot to deny the whole thing. or, you know, a neo-nazi who wants to believe it because it suits your political agenda, or someone who spends enough time in unsavory parts of the internet where neo-nazis are given a voice and taken seriously. i'm not sure which one lala is, but even if i give lala the benefit of the doubt and assume lala is only a holocaust denier due to lala's "every conspiracy theory MUST be true" mindset, lala might want to consider drawing the line at listening to fucking nazis
Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16

Xxanthar wrote:

My words are true and my spirit is free. You should look up Lizard people, if you do not think that they can't be involved with thee.


You disagree that historical accounts shown on textbooks should be revisited when they don't add up with basic mathematical calculations? Lala asks, would this be due to "political correctness"? Does the point that the corpses in the Holocaust footage closely resembles typhoid victims mean anything to you? Lala would like to remind you that official probes into the Holocaust are illegal in over 20 countries. Then Lala would like to think again about this quote from Obama. Lala thinks that it's a topic worthy of discussion, especially after Pizzagate has reminded us of the positions regarding burden of proof. If you find that derailing the topic to talks about lizard people is more interesting, this will be Lala's last response from you.

EDIT: Fixed image link.

@BlackRose0607: You cannot prove a negative, so the people making the positive claim need to provide the evidence. People agreed with Lala in this thread. No matter how much circumstantial evidence there is, how many witnesses and victims come forth, if there is no direct evidence then it cannot be a fact.
Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16

LalaSatalin wrote:


Xxanthar wrote:

My words are true and my spirit is free. You should look up Lizard people, if you do not think that they can't be involved with thee.


You disagree that historical accounts shown on textbooks should be revisited when they don't add up with basic mathematical calculations? Lala asks, would this be due to "political correctness"? Does the point that the corpses in the Holocaust footage closely resembles typhoid victims mean anything to you? Lala would like to remind you that official probes into the Holocaust are illegal in over 20 countries. Then Lala would like to think again about this quote from Obama. Lala thinks that it's a topic worthy of discussion, especially after Pizzagate has reminded us of the positions regarding burden of proof. If you find that derailing the topic to talks about lizard people is more interesting, this will be Lala's last response from you.


I am sorry that your mind is not open to new ideas.
Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16

limeparadox wrote:

as far as i can tell, pizzagate is the result of a bunch of random people on the internet with clear political motivations connecting imaginary dots with flimsy if not outright disproven "evidence" to rush toward the most outlandish and sensational conclusion they could come up with. there's a pretty obvious reason the only two heavily overlapping groups it's caught on with are the alt-right and people like lala who seem to believe in every conspiracy theory ever. it's not the most logical explanation for anything that needs to be explained - it's just a fantasy for people who want to believe in anything that villifies a political party they disagree with. could there theoretically be some truth to it? sure, you could say that about literally anything, but that doesn't mean it's remotely likely, and it doesn't mean that these kinds of baseless politically-motivated accusations should be taken any more seriously than "obama eats babies because i don't like him" or something

the holocaust is a completely different thing, and denying it sure as hell doesn't make you sound any more credible. the holocaust was a tangible, well-documented event with very real and lasting effects. there are survivors of concentration camps and people whose ancestors died there still around to testify to it today. even if a few accounts were inaccurate or exaggerated, you'd have to be an idiot to deny the whole thing. or, you know, a neo-nazi who wants to believe it because it suits your political agenda, or someone who spends enough time in unsavory parts of the internet where neo-nazis are given a voice and taken seriously. i'm not sure which one lala is, but even if i give lala the benefit of the doubt and assume lala is only a holocaust denier due to lala's "every conspiracy theory MUST be true" mindset, lala might want to consider drawing the line at listening to fucking nazis


Lala doesn't think you read Lala's first post at all, because all your points have been covered in the first post. Lala is literally showing you a real-time account of the bandwagon effect here, observable by anyone with an internet connection. It is evidence that thousands of people are willing to push forward unsubstantiated claims to fit their agenda. Lala isn't denying the whole thing based on the fact that there were multiple witnesses who got caught out for lying, Lala is questioning the credibility of the witnesses based on this fact.

It doesn't end there, Lala's ultimate point was that witness accounts only amount to circumstantial evidence, as people have admitted in the Pizzagate thread. Otherwise, if thousands of people step forward accusing Podesta of molesting them, it would become a reality. Lala believes that you disagree with that logic.

Further, it is illegal to probe into the Holocaust and Lala doesn't see any compelling reason why people would step forward to say that they've lied. You might have a point if thousands of people apologize to John Podesta for jumping to conclusions in the case that he was proven to be innocent, but Lala highly doubts that would ever happen. It's simply human nature.

Lala thinks that people should look at #3 from this thread, and reflect on whether they have unjustified double standards themselves.
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Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/18/16
From what I see from this thread, you're trying to be as objective as possible and only work with perfectly documented information. This is not practical nor reasonable, ironically. Consider, wars casualties are never perfectly recorded, we give estimates between two extremes to give a rough idea of how many died. Does this mean that no one in the war died to that scale? Of course not, we just use rough estimate. You say that you cannot prove a negative, that's true, but it is foolish to only consider what information you have in your possession, as well as those around you, as a truthful conclusion. You don't know what you don't know. To get a better understanding, and paint the best picture you could would take years of traveling and consulting with experts in those fields, I imagine you do not have the time. Human beings are not perfectly logical creatures and when we try to be we become particularly useless, humans deal with generalizations because no one has the time to research every little thing, we're a pack animal, we trust those like us to give us basic ideas about complexities because we are limited in our capability to investigate things perfectly. So I'd say if you're confident, and interested enough in your information on the holocaust to argue your point, you should seek out experts on the subjects to have a dialogue to understand more, it should give you a clearer picture of events.

To put it more clearly, you always take leaps of faith with most information and stories because you have to, it's just not practical or possible to investigate every happenstance for truth by your own two eyes.
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Posted 12/18/16

LalaSatalin wrote:
You disagree that historical accounts shown on textbooks should be revisited when they don't add up with basic mathematical calculations? Lala asks, would this be due to "political correctness"? Does the point that the corpses in the Holocaust footage closely resembles typhoid victims mean anything to you? Lala would like to remind you that official probes into the Holocaust are illegal in over 20 countries. Then Lala would like to think again about this quote from Obama. Lala thinks that it's a topic worthy of discussion, especially after Pizzagate has reminded us of the positions regarding burden of proof. If you find that derailing the topic to talks about lizard people is more interesting, this will be Lala's last response from you.


I reported this post because the typhoid victims link brought me to a page where my Webroot SecureAnywhere virus and malware protection program stopped the page from loading and said there was a high chance of a malicious attack from it. I'm posting this to warn people about that. Oh, and Twitter isn't a reliable or official source of information. You keep posting the link to the #pizzagate feed for Twitter as evidence for your argument but it isn't any real proof. I have yet to see any of that from you.
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Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/19/16

LalaSatalin wrote:
*As this is a very sensitive topic, Lala received permission from a mod to keep this thread up as long as Lala speaks with respect, so please don't try to derail this thread even if it makes you feel uncomfortable.*


Seriously mods? What the actual fuck?
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Posted 12/18/16 , edited 12/19/16

LalaSatalin wrote:
Lala doesn't think you read Lala's first post at all, because all your points have been covered in the first post. Lala is literally showing you a real-time account of the bandwagon effect here, observable by anyone with an internet connection. It is evidence that thousands of people are willing to push forward unsubstantiated claims to fit their agenda. Lala isn't denying the whole thing based on the fact that there were multiple witnesses who got caught out for lying, Lala is questioning the credibility of the witnesses based on this fact.

It doesn't end there, Lala's ultimate point was that witness accounts only amount to circumstantial evidence, as people have admitted in the Pizzagate thread. Otherwise, if thousands of people step forward accusing Podesta of molesting them, it would become a reality. Lala believes that you disagree with that logic.

Further, it is illegal to probe into the Holocaust and Lala doesn't see any compelling reason why people would step forward to say that they've lied. You might have a point if thousands of people apologize to John Podesta for jumping to conclusions in the case that he was proven to be innocent, but Lala highly doubts that would ever happen. It's simply human nature.

Lala thinks that people should look at #3 from this thread, and reflect on whether they have unjustified double standards themselves.

i did read the first post, and at least most of this thread, but i'm going to be honest and say i might not have 100% understood what lala was getting at because trying to read lala's posts is increasingly tedious and nauseating. not talking in third person is one of many steps lala could potentially take to alleviate this problem

if "thousands of people" stepped forward and accused podesta of molesting them - and at least some of them had serious stories that made sense and weren't obvious pizzagate trolls - then yes, i would actually at least consider this issue worth looking into and taking more seriously. the thing is, nothing even remotely like that has happened yet to my knowledge. and even then, there's a whole lot more evidence for the holocaust than just a few thousand people claiming it happened to them

you're trying to compare two things that aren't even the slightest bit similar beyond the fact that there are people who believe and don't believe in both of them. it's not working at all, and the more you say about it the less i feel like i understand what point you're trying to make or whether you have any sort of coherent point at all =/
Posted 12/19/16 , edited 12/19/16

ClothStatue wrote:

From what I see from this thread, you're trying to be as objective as possible and only work with perfectly documented information. This is not practical nor reasonable, ironically. Consider, wars casualties are never perfectly recorded, we give estimates between two extremes to give a rough idea of how many died. Does this mean that no one in the war died to that scale? Of course not, we just use rough estimate. You say that you cannot prove a negative, that's true, but it is foolish to only consider what information you have in your possession, as well as those around you, as a truthful conclusion. You don't know what you don't know. To get a better understanding, and paint the best picture you could would take years of traveling and consulting with experts in those fields, I imagine you do not have the time. Human beings are not perfectly logical creatures and when we try to be we become particularly useless, humans deal with generalizations because no one has the time to research every little thing, we're a pack animal, we trust those like us to give us basic ideas about complexities because we are limited in our capability to investigate things perfectly. So I'd say if you're confident, and interested enough in your information on the holocaust to argue your point, you should seek out experts on the subjects to have a dialogue to understand more, it should give you a clearer picture of events.

To put it more clearly, you always take leaps of faith with most information and stories because you have to, it's just not practical or possible to investigate every happenstance for truth by your own two eyes.


There is enough reason to be skeptical if there is a lack of evidence, and further mathematical evidence showing that the claims don't add up. It makes it even more suspicious that it's illegal to probe into the Holocaust, per Obama's quote that "people who don't want to uncover the truth are people who have something to hide." The numbers from the original claim have been reduced more than 3 times, so it's clear that the claims were hazy from the beginning. Winners write history, this is nothing new and most certainly isn't something that should be dismissed under "absurdity".


limeparadox wrote:

i did read the first post, and at least most of this thread, but i'm going to be honest and say i might not have 100% understood what lala was getting at because trying to read lala's posts is increasingly tedious and nauseating. not talking in third person is one of many steps lala could potentially take to alleviate this problem


If you truly comprehended Lala's post, you would have addressed Lala's main point that the evidence surrounding the Holocaust amounts to circumstantial evidence, and isn't direct evidence per se. Lala is thankful that you at least admit you couldn't fully comprehend Lala's post.


if "thousands of people" stepped forward and accused podesta of molesting them - and at least some of them had serious stories that made sense and weren't obvious pizzagate trolls - then yes, i would actually at least consider this issue worth looking into and taking more seriously. the thing is, nothing even remotely like that has happened yet to my knowledge. and even then, there's a whole lot more evidence for the holocaust than just a few thousand people claiming it happened to them

you're trying to compare two things that aren't even the slightest bit similar beyond the fact that there are people who believe and don't believe in both of them. it's not working at all, and the more you say about it the less i feel like i understand what point you're trying to make or whether you have any sort of coherent point at all =/


Here you say that there's an abundance of "evidence" surrounding the Holocaust, yet you haven't provided a single example of what would be considered direct evidence of the event. Lala can't take your "word" for it, because the whole point of this thread is that people are willing to ignore gaps in their claims to support their agenda. The fact that you haven't provided evidence in the past two posts, indicates an absence of evidence, further strengthening Lala's point that you don't really know why you believe in your claims, and the double standards you apply to Pizzagate. Again, Lala would like to emphasize that people are fully aware of the unreliability of testimonial evidence, based on this thread and also this example.

If your final say is the abundant witness testimonies, congratulations you are officially a conspiracy theorist.
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Posted 12/19/16 , edited 12/19/16

LalaSatalin wrote:
Here you say that there's an abundance of "evidence" surrounding the Holocaust, yet you haven't provided a single example of what would be considered direct evidence of the event. Lala can't take your "word" for it, because the whole point of this thread is that people are willing to ignore gaps in their claims to support their agenda. The fact that you haven't provided evidence in the past two posts, indicates an absence of evidence, further strengthening Lala's point that you don't really know why you believe in your claims, and the double standards you apply to Pizzagate. Again, Lala would like to emphasize that people are fully aware of the unreliability of testimonial evidence, based on this thread and also this example.

If your final say is the abundant witness testimonies, congratulations you are officially a conspiracy theorist.

believing the holocaust was a actual thing that happened isn't exactly an agenda. maybe to someone like you who probably believes the jewish illuminati secretly controls the whole world or whatever, but to most people who aren't raging antisemites it's just considered common sense

fuck it, i'm not wasting any more of my time feeding a troll though. if you're actually interested in finding evidence that the holocaust was real, i don't know, try just googling it and clicking literally any result that isn't some neo-nazi conspiracy site or something. it shouldn't be that hard, but i don't think you're interested in or even necessarily capable of learning and changing and i'm not going to bother bringing you examples myself just for you to say they're not Hard Facts because they don't come from fucking infowars or something
Posted 12/19/16 , edited 12/19/16

limeparadox wrote:

fuck it, i'm not wasting any more of my time feeding a troll though. if you're actually interested in finding evidence that the holocaust was real, i don't know, try just googling it and clicking literally any result that isn't some neo-nazi conspiracy site or something. it shouldn't be that hard, but i don't think you're interested in or even necessarily capable of learning and changing and i'm not going to bother bringing you examples myself just for you to say they're not Hard Facts because they don't come from fucking infowars or something


Like Lala said earlier: You cannot prove a negative, so the people making the positive claim need to provide the evidence. That is you.

The fact that you are unable to provide evidence demonstrates absence of evidence, which strengthens the argument that there could be no evidence to begin with. If it's so obvious, Lala asks for some specific keywords regarding the direct evidence that you're so confident of, considering it take less time than writing up a paragraph explaining why you don't want to provide evidence to Lala.

Again, Lala redirects you to #3 from this thread. Absurdity isn't an argument.

Lala would like to ask you one more time. Do you believe that there's a double standard regarding Pizzagate and the Holocaust?

EDIT: It appears to Lala you are misunderstanding the point of the bandwagon effect. The twitter feed is a real-time example of the human nature of propagating unsubstantiated claims that fit their agenda, which you got partially correct in your first post: "it's just a fantasy for people who want to believe in anything that villifies a political party they disagree with". You basically admitted that you understand that people will lie about someone they hate, and it's no question of whether the Jewish people liked Hitler or not considering they were detained in detention camps.
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Posted 12/19/16
Some people will say anything to be thought of as clever and interesting
Posted 12/19/16

camay1997 wrote:

Some people will say anything to be thought of as clever and interesting


Lala asks whether you believe this woman is speaking from her heart, or from an urge to feel clever and interesting?
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Posted 12/19/16

LalaSatalin wrote:


camay1997 wrote:

Some people will say anything to be thought of as clever and interesting


Lala asks whether you believe this woman is speaking from her heart, or from an urge to feel clever and interesting?


Gonna go with attempting to be clever and interesting.
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