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Charging before accounts due
Posted 12/19/16
Ok, I would like to know if anyone else has had this issue, I was charged before my bill date, got a $32 overdraft fee. Crunchyroll refunded the charge and one extra ($6.95) and told me the bank wouldnt charge the overdraft fee if I put the money back in, Which I thought was wrong, and it was I was still charged the $32 and only got back $6.95 of it from crunchyroll who billed me earlier than the said bill date and caused the whole issue to start. When I got back to my ticket to try and do the survey they had already closed it so I couldn't rate my service before the issue was resolved! I wanted to take legal action but due to the small amount I could only do so if there is enough people with the same issue to start a class action suit. So I would like to find out just how many people have had the same issue. I have been a paying premium member for years, I would have thought they would treat a long term customer better! And on top of all that they have a customer service number that does nothing but tell you it's unmonitored and to go start a ticket online, why? So they can close it out before you can rate their service and keep up appearances maybe? IDK But they've lost my subscription because they are dodging their responsibilities and costing people almost 5 times as much in overdraft fees as the subscription actually costs. Thanks for losing my money for me you selfish corporate jerks!
Posted 12/19/16
Oscarfrog:

In my personal experience, quite a few online sites have the issue of charging prior to the "bill date". This is mostly due to any potential shifts in how the accountancy department handles things. It's always wise to have enough into your bank account to cover all of your "pre-arranged payments" (including Crunchyroll).

As for the support experience, I would definitely suggest creating another ticket and link to this particular forum post (note: I have reported it to a moderator to be moved to the correct forum area) and explain the issue. Please keep in mind, though, that it isn't at fault for Crunchyroll that you had gone into your overdraft - they did you a solid by reimbursing due to their fault of charging prior to the bill date that you've been used to for however long.

Legally, they're not responsible for how your bank handles overdrafts - they only charged you the $6.95 (not the $32 + $6.95). Legally, I doubt Crunchyroll would be liable for charges from your bank in this manner unless it's written in the user agreement/TOS upon subscribing that your bill date will always be exactly one month from the date you started your Premium Membership.
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Posted 12/19/16
I've never had a problem with overdraft fees, but that's because I have my accounts set up so that I can't spend more than I have. If I have 5 dollars in my account and I try to spend 10 dollars, it says insufficient funds and won't let buy it. Won't prevent me from writing a bad check though.
Posted 12/19/16 , edited 12/19/16
Sue them!!!
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Posted 12/19/16

oscarfrog wrote:

Crunchyroll refunded the charge and one extra ($6.95) and told me the bank wouldnt charge the overdraft fee if I put the money back in, Which I thought was wrong, and it was I was still charged the $32 and only got back $6.95 of it from crunchyroll who billed me earlier than the said bill date and caused the whole issue to start.

Have you tried contacting your bank's customer service department and explaining to them the charge was placed earlier than it should have been (and pointing out CR refunded the charge as proof of this)?

Also, if you are in the US and using a debit card for your CR payment, overdrafting would have been impossible if you hadn't opted in (possibly due to being tricked into it by your bank). In 2010, the US passed a law that made it so banks had to have customers opt in to overdraft "protection" for debit cards (without it, the charge is simply declined if the balance is insufficient). Unfortunately, a lot banks fooled customers into signing back up, often touting it as a way to save the "embarrassment" of having their card declined, and sometimes using confusing language.

If you decide to call your bank, be polite at first, and ask as I mentioned above about seeing if you can get the charge waived. If that doesn't work, then ask them about the law I mentioned, and demand to know when you opted in. When they tell you, then consider opting out (unless you'd rather risk more overdrafts due to low bank balance).

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Posted 12/19/16 , edited 12/19/16

oscarfrog wrote:

Ok, I would like to know if anyone else has had this issue, I was charged before my bill date, got a $32 overdraft fee. Crunchyroll refunded the charge and one extra ($6.95) and told me the bank wouldnt charge the overdraft fee if I put the money back in, Which I thought was wrong, and it was I was still charged the $32 and only got back $6.95 of it from crunchyroll who billed me earlier than the said bill date and caused the whole issue to start. When I got back to my ticket to try and do the survey they had already closed it so I couldn't rate my service before the issue was resolved! I wanted to take legal action but due to the small amount I could only do so if there is enough people with the same issue to start a class action suit. So I would like to find out just how many people have had the same issue. I have been a paying premium member for years, I would have thought they would treat a long term customer better! And on top of all that they have a customer service number that does nothing but tell you it's unmonitored and to go start a ticket online, why? So they can close it out before you can rate their service and keep up appearances maybe? IDK But they've lost my subscription because they are dodging their responsibilities and costing people almost 5 times as much in overdraft fees as the subscription actually costs. Thanks for losing my money for me you selfish corporate jerks!


Banks do not retract these charges unless you call them about it. It's not automatic or anything.

As has been pointed out, you got charged because you gave permission to your bank to do this. They probably called it "courtesy fee" or "courtesy pay" when you signed the contract for your debit account. If banks do not have permission to do this, any transaction exceeding the account's balance will simply fail without causing monetary loss.
Posted 12/19/16

ninjitsuko wrote:

Oscarfrog:

In my personal experience, quite a few online sites have the issue of charging prior to the "bill date". This is mostly due to any potential shifts in how the accountancy department handles things. It's always wise to have enough into your bank account to cover all of your "pre-arranged payments" (including Crunchyroll).

As for the support experience, I would definitely suggest creating another ticket and link to this particular forum post (note: I have reported it to a moderator to be moved to the correct forum area) and explain the issue. Please keep in mind, though, that it isn't at fault for Crunchyroll that you had gone into your overdraft - they did you a solid by reimbursing due to their fault of charging prior to the bill date that you've been used to for however long.

Legally, they're not responsible for how your bank handles overdrafts - they only charged you the $6.95 (not the $32 + $6.95). Legally, I doubt Crunchyroll would be liable for charges from your bank in this manner unless it's written in the user agreement/TOS upon subscribing that your bill date will always be exactly one month from the date you started your Premium Membership.


They billed me a week early, and it's not their fault? Their own website had my bill date a week after and I wouldn't have been overdrawn if they billed when they claimed they would.
Posted 12/19/16

Xxanthar wrote:

Sue them!!!


I cant sue them because of the amount the most I could do is spend more than I lost in small claims court, and what's the point of that?
Posted 12/19/16

TheAncientOne wrote:


oscarfrog wrote:

Crunchyroll refunded the charge and one extra ($6.95) and told me the bank wouldnt charge the overdraft fee if I put the money back in, Which I thought was wrong, and it was I was still charged the $32 and only got back $6.95 of it from crunchyroll who billed me earlier than the said bill date and caused the whole issue to start.

Have you tried contacting your bank's customer service department and explaining to them the charge was placed earlier than it should have been (and pointing out CR refunded the charge as proof of this)?

Also, if you are in the US and using a debit card for your CR payment, overdrafting would have been impossible if you hadn't opted in (possibly due to being tricked into it by your bank). In 2010, the US passed a law that made it so banks had to have customers opt in to overdraft "protection" for debit cards (without it, the charge is simply declined if the balance is insufficient). Unfortunately, a lot banks fooled customers into signing back up, often touting it as a way to save the "embarrassment" of having their card declined, and sometimes using confusing language.

If you decide to call your bank, be polite at first, and ask as I mentioned above about seeing if you can get the charge waived. If that doesn't work, then ask them about the law I mentioned, and demand to know when you opted in. When they tell you, then consider opting out (unless you'd rather risk more overdrafts due to low bank balance).



Yes, if you read the post I already said I spoke to the bank, they refused to refund the overdraft fees, I did however set up an extended line of credit so if this happens to me again I won't end up with a large fee just a small percentage from the credit line I set up to prevent this from happening again. I am very good with my finances so this is the first time its happened to me, normally my account never goes under.
Posted 12/19/16

oscarfrog wrote:

They billed me a week early, and it's not their fault? Their own website had my bill date a week after and I wouldn't have been overdrawn if they billed when they claimed they would.


Technically, no. Unless it was specifically stated, then they can charge at any given time before the bill date. For example, these are the bill dates that I've had over the last 15 months - the date stated on each of these were "sixth of the month". I expect these things to happen with certain online processing systems:



At the same time, as others have mentioned, you'd have to argue with the bank over whether or not those fees will be reimbursed by their team or not. Normally, overdraft fees would not occur if you haven't given permission for your bank to pay out additional funds when your balance has fallen below $0.
Posted 12/19/16

ninjitsuko wrote:


oscarfrog wrote:

They billed me a week early, and it's not their fault? Their own website had my bill date a week after and I wouldn't have been overdrawn if they billed when they claimed they would.


Technically, no. Unless it was specifically stated, then they can charge at any given time before the bill date. For example, these are the bill dates that I've had over the last 15 months - the date stated on each of these were "sixth of the month". I expect these things to happen with certain online processing systems:



At the same time, as others have mentioned, you'd have to argue with the bank over whether or not those fees will be reimbursed by their team or not. Normally, overdraft fees would not occur if you haven't given permission for your bank to pay out additional funds when your balance has fallen below $0.


Technically if they have my bill date listed and they bill me early they are breaking a contract between them and myself, nowhere does it say in their agreement that they can bill either early OR anytime they chose, thats just talking out your ass!
Posted 12/19/16

oscarfrog wrote:
Technically if they have my bill date listed and they bill me early they are breaking a contract between them and myself, nowhere does it say in their agreement that they can bill either early OR anytime they chose, thats just talking out your ass!


Not really, since it isn't specified in the Terms of Service, there's no contract as to when that bill date will be. Automatic payment systems handle things differently than, say, if you were to pay your utility bill via mail/check. This is what the ToS states about payment:



There's nothing specifically mentioning that the automated system will charge you on an exact date, as I suspected. Automated systems can charge at different times. I'm not trying to show you that you're right or wrong, just how these things are normally done on a legal level. Without any specification, the "contract" to bill you on that exact date doesn't exist - it's an indicator that you'll be charged "before or on this date". This happens with all of my online subscriptions (Netflix, Hulu, Crunchyroll, and HBO Now).
Posted 12/19/16 , edited 12/19/16

ninjitsuko wrote:


oscarfrog wrote:
Technically if they have my bill date listed and they bill me early they are breaking a contract between them and myself, nowhere does it say in their agreement that they can bill either early OR anytime they chose, thats just talking out your ass!


Not really, since it isn't specified in the Terms of Service, there's no contract as to when that bill date will be. Automatic payment systems handle things differently than, say, if you were to pay your utility bill via mail/check. This is what the ToS states about payment:



There's nothing specifically mentioning that the automated system will charge you on an exact date, as I suspected. Automated systems can charge at different times. I'm not trying to show you that you're right or wrong, just how these things are normally done on a legal level. Without any specification, the "contract" to bill you on that exact date doesn't exist - it's an indicator that you'll be charged "before or on this date". This happens with all of my online subscriptions (Netflix, Hulu, Crunchyroll, and HBO Now).


Yes but since it's not specifically mentioned but listed on a per account basis, it says THE EXACT DATE in your account information as to when you will be billed, which means, it is in writing, therefore a legal and binding contract! One which they are breaking on a regular basis apparently, which just gives me more fuel to use against them. And when I say I've been loyal for years, I mean my first bill date was January 15, 2009, You would think they would treat a customer of over 7 years a bit better, but if they don't want reliable money, and they want to treat their customers like shit, they can just lose that income.
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Posted 12/19/16 , edited 12/19/16

oscarfrog wrote:

Yes, if you read the post I already said I spoke to the bank, they refused to refund the overdraft fees, I did however set up an extended line of credit so if this happens to me again I won't end up with a large fee just a small percentage from the credit line I set up to prevent this from happening again. I am very good with my finances so this is the first time its happened to me, normally my account never goes under.

I started to post, "But you didn't mention if that was after CR refunded the charge", but thought it better to verify I had not missed it. I then re-read your original message again...and then twice more, and it turns out I can't find where you stated that you contacted your bank.

Frankly, unless you deliberately and knowingly opted into debit card "overdraft protection" before (not the type you have now), it would still be worth bringing that issue up with the bank. By default, since that 2010 law went into effect, one cannot overdraft their account with a debit card without opting in. If your bank tricked you, they should own up to it by waiving that charge. As angry as you are at CR, you should be more angry at your bank if they didn't make it clear what you opted into.
Posted 12/19/16 , edited 12/19/16

TheAncientOne wrote:


oscarfrog wrote:

Yes, if you read the post I already said I spoke to the bank, they refused to refund the overdraft fees, I did however set up an extended line of credit so if this happens to me again I won't end up with a large fee just a small percentage from the credit line I set up to prevent this from happening again. I am very good with my finances so this is the first time its happened to me, normally my account never goes under.

I started to post, "But you didn't mention if that was after CR refunded the charge", but thought it better to verify I had not missed it. I then re-read your original message again...and then twice more, and it turns out I can't find where you stated that you contacted your bank.

Frankly, unless you deliberately and knowingly opted into debit card "overdraft protection" before (not the type you have now), it would still be worth bringing that issue up with the bank. By default, since that 2010 law went into effect, one cannot overdraft their account with a debit card without opting in. If your bank tricked you, they should own up to it by waiving that charge. As angry as you are at CR, you should be more angry at your bank if they didn't make it clear what you opted into.


My account is billed through paypal, I don't use my bank card directly. And I mentioned that they told me to put the money back and talk to the bank after they refunded it, that I did, and that they refused to refund the overdraft fee. That's what prompted me to then set up the additional line of credit to protect against the overdraw issue, the same day I was in the bank discussing the fee and the charge. FYI be the time the refund came back I had already had my account back into the positive because of my direct deposit, which if they had billed when they claimed they would, would have been in my account and eliminated any issues entirely.
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