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Republican hatred of Obama and why it's Dangerous.
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Posted 12/21/16 , edited 12/21/16

draugauth wrote:

1> It does show the actual unemployment rate and even breaks it down into age groups and ethnic groups.


I decided to helpfully locate the "Annual labor market summary" on the Bureau of Labor Statistics website.
https://www.bls.gov/cps/lfcharacteristics.htm#annualstory

The link for the 2015 summary has a nice chart that shows the actual unemployment rate. That is, presumably, the chart with numbers that are officially endorsed by the very people who gathered the statistics provided by you that you supposedly trust more than the OP's source.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2016/article/unemployment-rate-nears-prerecession-level-by-end-of-2015.htm


It takes a bit of studying to figure out which vertical tick marks go with which years, but the numbers match pretty closely with the chart posted by the OP. However, it does look to me like the data from the OP's chart was probably shifted by 12 months. That is to say, the first 12 months of the OP's curve were actually the 12 months preceding the date that each of the presidents in question took office. The dates still line up, though, because the data was shifted by the same amount for both the Obama and Reagan curves.
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Posted 12/21/16 , edited 12/21/16

mxdan wrote:



Xxanthar wrote:

90 million people are now out of the workforce.
Obamacare has destroyed full-time jobs so people have to take 2 or 3 part-time jobs.
Obama regulations and fees on americans totaling over 800 billion dollars. http://thehill.com/regulation/290744-study-obama-issued-743b-in-regs
Obama and Bush have eliminated millions of manufacturing jobs with bad trade deals
Obama has encouraged riots, looting, and cop killing.
Obama has destroyed energy production so that we have to depend more on his Saudi pals.
Obama has gutted our Military.
Obama ended sanctions on Iran just when they were starting to destabilize the country and basically guaranteed that will develop nuclear weapons.
Obama has restarted the cold war tensions with Russia.
Obamacare has been a trillion dollar failure.
Obama has opened our borders by ordering the border patrol to stand down and release unknown foreign invaders into our country.
Obama has sided with terrorists.
Obama has aided terrorists in Libya and Syria.
Obama has armed terrorists in Libya and Syria.

That's just a few things off the top of my head.
Obama will be know throughout history The great destroyer of the USA. The only good thing about Obama was that he was too busy playing golf to drive the final nail in our coffin (Hillary was supposed to do that)

Obama is an 'Obamanation'

If Obama did such a fantastic job, Hillary would have won, as she ran on carrying on his legacy of stupidity.

This just in:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-shock-another-6-billion-in-midnight-regulations/article/2610168

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2014/08/09/50-things-barack-obama-has-done-wrong-n1876744




^ -- How not to instigate a good conversation.

Virtually no sources. Opinionated material.

Until you take this seriously and come at me with some effort I'm not gonna take you seriously.


"Obama has gutting our military" is my favorite one, considering the US spends more on the military than, at least, the next 8 nations combined. And most of them are allies.

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Posted 12/21/16 , edited 12/21/16

ran76 wrote:


mxdan wrote:



Xxanthar wrote:

90 million people are now out of the workforce.
Obamacare has destroyed full-time jobs so people have to take 2 or 3 part-time jobs.
Obama regulations and fees on americans totaling over 800 billion dollars. http://thehill.com/regulation/290744-study-obama-issued-743b-in-regs
Obama and Bush have eliminated millions of manufacturing jobs with bad trade deals
Obama has encouraged riots, looting, and cop killing.
Obama has destroyed energy production so that we have to depend more on his Saudi pals.
Obama has gutted our Military.
Obama ended sanctions on Iran just when they were starting to destabilize the country and basically guaranteed that will develop nuclear weapons.
Obama has restarted the cold war tensions with Russia.
Obamacare has been a trillion dollar failure.
Obama has opened our borders by ordering the border patrol to stand down and release unknown foreign invaders into our country.
Obama has sided with terrorists.
Obama has aided terrorists in Libya and Syria.
Obama has armed terrorists in Libya and Syria.

That's just a few things off the top of my head.
Obama will be know throughout history The great destroyer of the USA. The only good thing about Obama was that he was too busy playing golf to drive the final nail in our coffin (Hillary was supposed to do that)

Obama is an 'Obamanation'

If Obama did such a fantastic job, Hillary would have won, as she ran on carrying on his legacy of stupidity.

This just in:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-shock-another-6-billion-in-midnight-regulations/article/2610168

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2014/08/09/50-things-barack-obama-has-done-wrong-n1876744




^ -- How not to instigate a good conversation.

Virtually no sources. Opinionated material.

Until you take this seriously and come at me with some effort I'm not gonna take you seriously.


"Obama has gutting our military" is my favorite one, considering the US spends more on the military than, at least, the next 8 nations combined. And most of them are allies.



Well sadly that's because those nations have come to rely on the US for all of their military needs. Which is why I back Trump on billing them to compensate.
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Posted 12/21/16 , edited 12/21/16

staphen wrote:


draugauth wrote:

1> It does show the actual unemployment rate and even breaks it down into age groups and ethnic groups.


I decided to helpfully locate the "Annual labor market summary" on the Bureau of Labor Statistics website.
https://www.bls.gov/cps/lfcharacteristics.htm#annualstory

The link for the 2015 summary has a nice chart that shows the actual unemployment rate. That is, presumably, the chart with numbers that are officially endorsed by the very people who gathered the statistics provided by you that you supposedly trust more than the OP's source.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2016/article/unemployment-rate-nears-prerecession-level-by-end-of-2015.htm


It takes a bit of studying to figure out which vertical tick marks go with which years, but the numbers match pretty closely with the chart posted by the OP. However, it does look to me like the data from the OP's chart was probably shifted by 12 months. That is to say, the first 12 months of the OP's curve were actually the 12 months preceding the date that each of the presidents in question took office. The dates still line up, though, because the data was shifted by the same amount for both the Obama and Reagan curves.


The stats I provided are not seasonally adjusted. Your's and the OP's are both seasonally adjusted. By "adjusting" them it changes them from factual to expected based on historical data for that time of the year.

Surprised you missed in all honesty. It is in the title of the chart after all.


***edit*** I have to say though that the Asians only having a 3% unemployment rate within the US while Blacks are 7.8-8.0% is very astonishing.
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Posted 12/21/16 , edited 12/22/16

Shade_fire wrote:

I think that the backlash for Trump breaking his promises will be much harsher on him from his supporters. Every other president with the exception of Ronald Reagan was a politician first and foremost, and ran with the people knowing that full well. With that knowledge came an understanding of the nature of politicians being the way they were. Trump on the other hand ran mostly by the notion that he wasn't a standard politician that he specifically would come through on those promises in the long run. His supporters truly believed that so I think his rate of getting reelected will take a larger hit than past presidents. Time will tell, but as a kind of outside observer to it all that's my best guess with what we can see for now.


Trump pretty much won for two reasons

1) Hilary oozed so much corruption and lies that no matter how bad Trump looked he wasn't much worse than her.

2) Like you said people want change and people are tired of politicians making empty promises just to win the election.


So between "Crooked Hilary" or "build a wall Trump" a lot of people went with the guy who at least seemed honest. An honest jerk maybe but at least he felt more genuine than his opponent.


But like you said that means his support hinges almost entirely on his "genuine-ness" so if he ends up not coming through then the backlash will NOT be pretty.
Ejanss 
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Posted 12/21/16 , edited 12/22/16

Ejanss wrote:
Basically, when Trump decided not to Lock Her Up!(tm), it...sort of spoke volumes about how the Republicans have now lost their one remaining cause, and are going to spend the next four years discovering that they should be more careful what they wish for.
Now, all they've got left are "Yeah, you probably believe in Global Warming, because you voted for Hillary!"


In latest GOP headlines, seems they're not bothering with swamp-reclamation projects either:
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/21/politics/newt-gingrich-trump-drain-the-swamp/index.html
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Posted 12/21/16 , edited 12/22/16
So some arguments to your points on Obama in terms of healthcare and unemployment. I am no fan of Obama because people blow his achievements way out of proportion. This however doesn't mean I'm a republican, I'm actually slightly leaning left. He is not the reason why certain positive things happened, however I will admit your is definitely the more detailed one in terms of economic facts. But don't forget that it is also Obama and his administration who supported another bail out to the banks.

Lets tackle unemployment first. To begin with do you know what unemployment stands for in the economic sense? Who follows under this category and what is included? Most people intuitively believe its the amount of people who are not employed. This is true to some degree. There is unfortunately more to it than what intuition would say. Unemployment does not include, those who are under maternity leave, or students, or those NOT ACTIVELY LOOKING for a job, and more importantly the marginally attached who are defined as those who who don't have a job and have been looking for a job in the past year or more.

The last part is the most important especially during Obama's entry into office at the beginning of the great recession of 2008. It is no surprise that the unemployment rate has fallen as a result, WITH MANY PEOPLE REPORTING TO BE JOBLESS.

1.) The formal definition of the unemployment rate that is set as a standard by the department of labour. (Unemployed/Labor Force) * 100, this is also known as U-3
2.) What should be used to encompass a grander scale is U-6 Which INCLUDES the marginally attached and those whom are part timers who want a full time job.

But I digress, does it mean he is the worst president? No. Anyone that had to inherit the legacy left behind by the Clinton and Bush administration was a shit show anyways. Whoever they put in office was going to have a tough time. Whether it was Obama or Mccain.

P.P.S: I am an economics major with a focus on international trade.
Ejanss 
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Posted 12/21/16 , edited 12/22/16

iWatchAnimeIronically wrote:

But I digress, does it mean he is the worst president? No. Anyone that had to inherit the legacy left behind by the Clinton and Bush administration was a shit show anyways. Whoever they put in office was going to have a tough time. Whether it was Obama or Mccain.


And besides, as for "Worst", Bush Jr. can only coast on "He got us through 9/11!" (which kept him out of the bottom five in the '10 rankings) for so long--Even Nixon had Russia and China on his resume'.
Watch out, James Buchanan and Ulysses S. Grant, you've got GW AND four years of Trump after your thrones...
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Posted 12/21/16 , edited 12/22/16

draugauth wrote:

The stats I provided are not seasonally adjusted. Your's and the OP's are both seasonally adjusted. By "adjusting" them it changes them from factual to expected based on historical data for that time of the year.

Surprised you missed in all honesty. It is in the title of the chart after all.


***edit*** I have to say though that the Asians only having a 3% unemployment rate within the US while Blacks are 7.8-8.0% is very astonishing.


I was aware of the discrepancy. I was led to believe that you had objections to the way OP's sources cherry-picked their data, not how the BLS handles seasonal adjustments. Also, seasonal adjustments do not change data from factual to expected, but rather normalize data based on expected trends in each season. The intent is not to skew the results or make up fake numbers; instead it is applied to allow more accurate comparisons between differing seasons, such as when comparing winter numbers to those of summer.
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Posted 12/21/16 , edited 12/22/16

staphen wrote:


draugauth wrote:

The stats I provided are not seasonally adjusted. Your's and the OP's are both seasonally adjusted. By "adjusting" them it changes them from factual to expected based on historical data for that time of the year.

Surprised you missed in all honesty. It is in the title of the chart after all.


***edit*** I have to say though that the Asians only having a 3% unemployment rate within the US while Blacks are 7.8-8.0% is very astonishing.


I was aware of the discrepancy. I was led to believe that you had objections to the way OP's sources cherry-picked their data, not how the BLS handles seasonal adjustments. Also, seasonal adjustments do not change data from factual to expected, but rather normalize data based on expected trends in each season. The intent is not to skew the results or make up fake numbers; instead it is applied to allow more accurate comparisons between differing seasons, such as when comparing winter numbers to those of summer.


Surprised someone knows at least that much about unemployment statistics. Not that many know of seasonal or frictional unemployment let alone know that there were different types. Props to you dear sir.

***edit*** In regards to what was said about Asian's unemployment rate vs Blacks. Do you really find it astonishing though? People are going to think what I'm going to say is racist but the root of it is the socioeconomic environment that a decent chunk of blacks have been living in in the ghettos. Granted you also have Asians living in ghettos its the culture of "just get an education and everything will play out fine" versus the culture of those in the ghetto areas thinking "even if I get to go to college will I be able to fund it, etc." There are so many different factors but the main problem is the socioeconomic environment both groups were raised in and the culture they grow up with.

This is a personal anecdote so take it with a grain of salt but, family came abroad as war refugees from Vietnam and lived in the ghettos for 20+ years. Through hard work they were able to go from lower class to middle class, but it was due to their strict upbringing, and the want to succeed and be accepted in a new environment.
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Posted 12/21/16 , edited 12/22/16

draugauth wrote:


cdarklock wrote:


Ejanss wrote:

The whole hatred of Obama started for two reasons


You forgot "he's black." I mean, compare a map of blue and red states to a map of Union and Confederate states.



Since you want to bring up Civil war stuff.....


I'm bringing up the political associations of racists. If you would like to dispute that racists are disproportionately represented in red states, saying "they used a different name a century and a half ago" does not advance that position.

Posted 12/21/16 , edited 12/22/16

cdarklock wrote:

I'm bringing up the political associations of racists. If you would like to dispute that racists are disproportionately represented in red states, saying "they used a different name a century and a half ago" does not advance that position.



Today's red states were not always red, and blue states were not always blue. The fact is most all of the slave states were run by Democrats. The KKK was pretty much the militant arm of southern Democrats and good old Abe Lincoln with his funny hat was a Republican.
Posted 12/21/16 , edited 12/22/16
Obama is a gay Muslim communist!
He is going to round up all the good Christian folk and put them in camps.
Wake up America!
mxdan 
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Posted 12/21/16 , edited 12/22/16

draugauth wrote:

He's had more scandals than any other president


Provide source.


He's increase the national debt more than nearly every other president combined.


Provide source. I just gave you the information you need to find out that is not true. The national debt ceiling is set 2 years after a president gets into office prior to them getting into office. It just so happens his highest increase happens here. He actually, if you look at the information provided, spent less then any other president in the last 40 years adjusted for inflation. That's not hyperbole. The idea that he spent over and beyond every other president is a partial lie. It accounts for nothing of the semantics. Just a political straw man.


He's back the terrorist group Black Lives Matter creating division among ethnic groups.


Provide Source. This is a lie.


He's apologized to Japan for us dropping the A-Bomb on them after we told the world to leave us out of WWII and Japan decided to do a SNEAK ATTACK on Pearl Harbor. Which btw the A-Bomb actually saved lives as the estimates for loss of life if we had invaded Japan was in the millions instead of a few hundred thousand.


Was unaware that forgiveness was a crime. Your party's pal Jesus christ seems to think it's not.


He's given Iran everything even though they've said time and time again they want us destroyed.


Not at all, he made a sum net zero gain. Big difference. Diplomacy isn't a weakness, it's our politicians doing their job.


He's given us the AHA which is anything BUT affordable


It's affordable to me but this is your opinion. Like most things, it had its failures and its successes:
http://time.com/money/4209465/is-obamacare-working/


He's given us riots after riots after riots without anything but encouragement for the riots.


He isn't responsible for those riot which have largely stirred up during this election season. Secondly, this isn't martial law. People are allowed to protest in America.


Now I'll be honest here. I voted for him the first time as I had great hopes for him. But I saw in his first term that he was nothing but a liar and I voted against him for his second term. So I did give him a chance. He has done nothing but screw the US over and turn us into the laughing stock of the international world.


No, opinion of Obama is extremely high. Pew research is a nonpartisan source research center for statistics.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/06/29/as-obama-years-draw-to-close-president-and-u-s-seen-favorably-in-europe-and-asia/


Oh and did I forget to mention that he got HR6393 passed which puts an end to free press? Yeah go read title V of it. All they have to say is that they think it's fake news created by the Russians and they can now control anything we get from the ANY news agency including the Fake News agencies like CNN, ABC, CBS, Fox, and so on. (All of which have been busted time and time again for spreading fake news and/or editing video clips to create fake news btw).

So yeah great president. Just wish this last election the DNC hadn't backed a Traitor causing us to end up with an asshole.


Fake news is an issue but I need to familiarize myself with HR6393 before I comment.

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Posted 12/21/16 , edited 12/22/16
I want to preface this thread by saying I'm going to supply this thread with economic facts that have been verified and can be seen in official sources. What I want to prove to you here is that Obama has routinely out performed other presidents in a myriad of areas. The idea is to show that Far Right hatred of Obama does not fall in line with actual data sets and from there hopefully help some understand that extremism within our political structure is now destabilizing our Democracy.

Time for some debunking. Not against your position just how you attempted to explain it.

This is no good. This is a logical fallacy. You can't attribute economic growth to the president blindly (same thing happened with Bill Clinton and Microsoft during his term. People heralded him instead of bill gates as the catalyst. Not dogging on him just saying it wasn't his policies that grew the economy like many would claim with charts/stats.) Most people who do this are just like you and try to support their information with stats and graphs that might skew the information or provide information that is misleading. A good example of this is your chart from forbes on unemployment. It doesn't really give any reasoning by itself it just attempts to convince someone that looks at it. So I figured I would read the article before I blew my wooden whistle at you but If you read the article it doesn't actually talk about any policy Obama or his cabinet had supported. To prove your point you need to get away from stats and start by explaining why his policies did so well ( or the policies/ideas of his cabinet.) or else no one who understands stats will take you seriously.

Second you need to choose articles that do the same. Articles that explain the possible why and not just here is some number lets all guess and stuff. There are so many factors that go into an economy like the United states. Its not just the president and his cabinets policies that spur growth.

So you need to rewrite this with that in mind and you would reach a lot more people because it no longer based on this logical fallacy. If you disagree that using these stats in this manner is a logical fallacy please explain why as I have for you why it is. This requires no sources only your understanding of how statistics can be manipulated for multiple "truths".

WARNING INC OPINION: Individual american innovation in my opinion has been the greatest boon to the american economy. Best thing any president can do is get out of our way.

PS: I want to know why you like the Iran nuclear deal. Would agree the terms are unfavorable for us? Would you agree that the US needs to be able to directly oversee these nuclear sites? Possibly you think the prospect of war with Iran is worst than in the future them being nuclear powers?
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