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Nearly 95% of all new jobs during Obama era were part-time, or contract
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Posted 12/23/16 , edited 12/23/16
This is so true lmao

I remember that my hours were reduced because Obama passed a law (I don't remember the name, it was something about the hours and insurance), supposedly it was a good thing for employees but a bad thing for employers because they had to pay more insurance for those who work 40 hours/overtime and you know who has the power? employers. So, if something will not work for them, employees will get fucked. My stupid employer reduced my hours from 40 to part-time.

Fuck Obama.

Thank god I'm not working there anymore though.

Posted 12/23/16 , edited 12/23/16

nekroneko wrote:

Got news for you OP, that is only going to get worse. It's not Obama's fault, it's not Bush's fault, it's not Clinton's fault and it won't be Trumps fault. It's just how things are because this is what capitalism does. It creates an environment whereby producing as much as possible with as little overhead as possible to be sold as cheaply as possible. Technology, name computers, robotics and AI will continue to push people out of the workforce as they are cheaper, faster and more reliable than any human workforce can be. Question is, what will people do when they have no where left to turn to? Not everyone can be a scientist, doctor, programmer and such. Hell, even they will be under threat eventually which leaves creative endeavours, but not everyone can do that either. This means you will end up with masses of dependants needing to be clothed, fed, housed and so on. Keep living in that bubble where you think democrats are inept and only republicans can fix everything, but sadly, there is no escaping the reality of what is inevitably coming.

The coming couple of decades are going to be some of the most challenging as we have to evolve beyond mass consumption and become a more altruistic society. Sometimes it's better for you in the long run if you help others in need in the short term.


Such ignorance.

Do you still lament the out of work horse & buggy drivers, and the horse shit shovelers?

Before you start going on about Capitalism,

Realize that Capitalism first and foremost requires integrity of capital, so that all players have that level playing field.

When your central bank is a counterfeiting house, that necessarily means you do not have integrity of capital, therefore, you do not have capitalism.

You do not have a free market, you have a manipulated market.

This is not because of capitalism, it is because of departures from capitalism.

Maybe you could try calling what we have Capitiolism, it would be more fitting. Fascism would be more fitting than "capitalism."
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Posted 12/23/16 , edited 12/23/16

choppin_broccoli wrote:


nekroneko wrote:

Got news for you OP, that is only going to get worse. It's not Obama's fault, it's not Bush's fault, it's not Clinton's fault and it won't be Trumps fault. It's just how things are because this is what capitalism does. It creates an environment whereby producing as much as possible with as little overhead as possible to be sold as cheaply as possible. Technology, name computers, robotics and AI will continue to push people out of the workforce as they are cheaper, faster and more reliable than any human workforce can be. Question is, what will people do when they have no where left to turn to? Not everyone can be a scientist, doctor, programmer and such. Hell, even they will be under threat eventually which leaves creative endeavours, but not everyone can do that either. This means you will end up with masses of dependants needing to be clothed, fed, housed and so on. Keep living in that bubble where you think democrats are inept and only republicans can fix everything, but sadly, there is no escaping the reality of what is inevitably coming.

The coming couple of decades are going to be some of the most challenging as we have to evolve beyond mass consumption and become a more altruistic society. Sometimes it's better for you in the long run if you help others in need in the short term.


Such ignorance.

Do you still lament the out of work horse & buggy drivers, and the horse shit shovelers?

Before you start going on about Capitalism,

Realize that Capitalism first and foremost requires integrity of capital, so that all players have that level playing field.

When your central bank is a counterfeiting house, that necessarily means you do not have integrity of capital, therefore, you do not have capitalism.

You do not have a free market, you have a manipulated market.

This is not because of capitalism, it is because of departures from capitalism.

Maybe you could try calling what we have Capitiolism, it would be more fitting. Fascism would be more fitting than "capitalism."


I think you misunderstand me, I think we should embrace a future where no one has to work, but the problem lies in the fact that some people wont like a the idea of people being dependant on the state to provide their every need and desire. We have yet to grow into a truly civilised world, and I fear that may always be the case.

Posted 12/23/16 , edited 12/23/16
Need that star trek level of tech to go with that star trek level of social services

Without one, you aint having the other.

No free energy, sorry everyone's gotta work.

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Posted 12/23/16 , edited 12/24/16

Silentveil wrote:

Claps, I give you a lot of credit ...you chose two professions that aren't going anywhere any time soon, smart.

As for unaffordable student loans, if you can pay for a 63,000 car ..then you can pay back your loans. If you can pay 1,000 for an apartment every month ...then you can pay back your loans. It means you have to sacrifice, the problem is ..no one think they have to do that or see a loan as that type of investment. That is the student's fault, because no one makes them take it.

Older people and discrimination, this once more is a problem that can be solved on the people level. They need a union, they need to be members of a union, because, discrimination is illegal for any reason. As for being de facto unemployable at age 50, well, that is understandable too ..why should I hire you to do a job I can pay someone else half price for? Better yet, what job are you aiming for where experience isn't a plus? This is why you must constantly better yourself, otherwise, you will be left behind and you can't blame people for that fate.

Insurance, I agree with you there, and I can't tell you have to fix it. This is one of those that I agree the government needs to step in, but after the way President Obama was treated for trying to deal with this problem ..I doubt anyone will try to fix it ever again. Some times it's better to acknowledge a bad idea, especially when it's the only one being given, and work with it ...then to do nothing. That's the insurance situation.

You are still trying to do trickle down economies and it doesn't work. You won't fix that problem working from the top down....because the problem isn't at the top ..it's at the bottom. A lower standard of living isn't a bad thing, if it's what you can afford. The problem is, people live above their means, and then complain because they can't afford it. Our standard of living isn't realistic, that is what nearly caused the recession in the first place and we have learned nothing from it. It why 50% of the countries wealthy is in 1% of the population's hands. Taking a step back isn't bad if it allows you to keep moving forward. I mean, you can't depend on the government to do everything for you, otherwise, you lose all ability to do anything for yourself.


Edited.
SS - Is a problem that only affect those that hope the government will take care of them, instead of putting something aside for themselves. In other words, you need to setup your own savings, not depend on someone to do it for you. Medicare ...is nice, I wish all of our insurance work that way, and we were able to pay into that. But, once more, government given ...government taken away, and like insurance ...I have no real answer for that.


1) Who the hell takes out a $63,000 car loan Either you're loaded or a sucker.
So here's the problem, you have private universities (mainly the for profit ones) essentially scamming poor and working class students into buying worthless and overpriced educations. Why these "universities" are still accredited is beyond me, no other developed country would put up with these snake oil salesmen. I graduated with $23k debt, but I paid it off in two years by continuing to live like a broke college student a little bit longer. That being said, when I hear of people being stuck with 200k debt with a worthless degree from some scam artists, I don't have the heart to tell them that financially their life is screwed. There is no way you can escape that much student loan debt with variable interest rates unless your a doctor, successful lawyer or had a relative leave you a small inheritance. Since student loans are not discharged in bankruptcy you are trapped, and if you have a cosigner, your parents being kicked to the streets is a possibility. We need to get rid of bankruptcy protections for private student loans so that lenders will stop lending insane amounts of money for these worthless degrees. They can evaluate the given person's credit history and projected future salary on a case by case basis. You would still be able to afford public universities off of a manageable Stafford debt limit of $35,000. I went to private school, but that was off a steep scholarship. People need to stop telling lies to their children that they can go to any university they get accepted into regardless of their families ability to pay. I didn't grow up with a lot of money and I sure as hell didn't give super expensive schools even a minute's glance, time to face reality folks.


2) Know what the beauty of age discrimination is, it is impossible for an employee to prove.
Sometimes its more than the specific scenario you are referring to (young cheap employees come in and take jobs).
Often in the manufacturing industry entire shop gets sent to the developing world, the young workers find some other form of employment, but the older ones are completely screwed. I agree that in today's crappy economy it is more important than ever to learn basic business skills and have the proper qualifications to operate a small business or as an independent contractor as fall back income. It's part of the reason I'm nolifing my post graduate education and professional licensing qualifications before I hit 40 so that if I get tossed to the curb I will still be employable in one capacity or another.

3) The problem with the consistently getting experience is that it is easier said than done. When you are older and have more responsibilities you become even more time strapped, but that is the least of it. Right now entire industries are shutting down and workers need to be retrained with an entire new skill set. Problem most of these programs are expensive and the United States spends next to nothing compared to other developed countries on such programs as a % of GDP. This is going to create long term structural unemployment, especially since on the top training for entry level positions is something more and more companies don't want to pay for anymore.

4) Insurance is a mess, no idea how to fix it, but the status quo is unsustainable. Sure more people got insurance, but the middle classes' medical bills are going through the roof, eventually there will be a breaking point where ironically those who fall in the middle will be those who are the predominantly new uninsured.

5) Productivity growth is at an all time high and wages are flat, I entirely disagree with you in this regards. Up until the 1970s, when productivity went up wages went up with it, not anymore. Instead we have grossly paid executives and senior management and declining wages and benefits down at the bottom. Part of the reason is that if anyone tries to fight against that there is an entire world of destitute people who will work for essentially nothing (i.e. Global race to the bottom economics)
It would be one thing if the entire US economy was going down the toilet, but instead we are getting a hollowing out of the middle class (rich getting richer, poor getting poorer). Just take a trip to the developing world to see what the consequences to such a society are. (i.e. higher crime, more broken families and more civil unrest). I also suggest reading articles on absolute vs relative poverty on why absolute poverty isn't the only metric for gauging the economic health of a society.

6)" SS - Is a problem that only affect those that hope the government will take care of them, instead of putting something aside for themselves."
In an ideal world that should seem obvious. However, as a realist this will not happen for many, especially with those working for poverty level wages. Either we fix SS or we have an elderly homeless epidemic, choice is yours and as a first world country I think keeping the elderly off the streets is the bare minimum we should strive for.

7)No idea either, but current spending levels are unsustainable, although big pharm's recent price gouging isn't helping.
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Posted 12/23/16 , edited 12/24/16
You say insurance is screwed up, but not really why. To even begin fixing a problem you need to have some idea of what is causing it. The fact that medical clinics and hospitals nickel and dime, charging for every little thing at exorbitant prices that are not even revealed until billing comes due? That the price can vary from one person to the next? That insurance companies allow these costs to become inflated?
Posted 12/23/16 , edited 12/24/16
Forcing companies to insure pre-existing conditions is of the things driving up costs. It's kind of like forcing a car insurance company to insure a drunk driver who just crashed into their building.That's not how insurance works.
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Posted 12/24/16 , edited 12/24/16

gornotck wrote:

You say insurance is screwed up, but not really why. To even begin fixing a problem you need to have some idea of what is causing it. The fact that medical clinics and hospitals nickel and dime, charging for every little thing at exorbitant prices that are not even revealed until billing comes due? That the price can vary from one person to the next? That insurance companies allow these costs to become inflated?


They are not nickeling and dimeing, they had to pay for those medicines ...so in order to stay open as a hospital ...they have to make the patient pay for that in return. I have seen nice hospitals go under in my area, so I know that one for fact. You want a cutting edge hospital, well they had to pay and you have to pay. The problem is insurance in and of itself is a snake oil trade ...they sale you promises and make sure you don't understand them, and what they give back in return isn't worth what you put into them. Now, here is the question ...why can insurance inflate their costs? Once again, you only use it when you get sick, but you pay for it every month ...but somehow it doesn't cover everything ...even if you don't use it for years and years. Something is wrong with that, but how do you fix it?
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Posted 12/24/16 , edited 12/24/16

Xxanthar wrote:

Forcing companies to insure pre-existing conditions is of the things driving up costs. It's kind of like forcing a car insurance company to insure a drunk driver who just crashed into their building.That's not how insurance works.



Yeah, you know you picked the exact something thing twice to explain a situation ...just in a different department, because both are insurance.

Now, of course insurance goes up, because people are now using their insurance, which, is suppose to be the purpose of having it. Yet, insurance is the one thing you pay for religiously and is expected to never use, which doesn't make sense, and then there are people like you who they have tricked into thinking ...this is normal.

Any other profession, when something breaks down ...they run to you, but insurances is the only one that runs away when you try to use it. If you had a car wreck and you hit a wreckers business, they would smile because they just got a job. IF you had a wreck and hit a hospital, they would rush you inside for medical treatment, because once more, they got business. If you had a wreck and you are at a auto shop, they would put your car in for repairs. Insurance is the only thing in that field that would run away from you, because, they would have to pay up all that money they got from you for years.

Money that they got for services not rendered and if you are more likely to use their services then you become ....a problem. Which ...once more doesn't make sense, they want your money but they want it so they can do nothing. You can't make that ..a sound thing, because in the end, they get paid for nothing and bellyache if they have to do their job.

Who truly needs insurance, people who will use it. Who do insurances want? People who won't use it....

This does not make sense.







Posted 12/24/16 , edited 12/24/16

Silentveil wrote:


Xxanthar wrote:

Forcing companies to insure pre-existing conditions is of the things driving up costs. It's kind of like forcing a car insurance company to insure a drunk driver who just crashed into their building.That's not how insurance works.



Yeah, you know you picked the exact something thing twice to explain a situation ...just in a different department, because both are insurance.

Now, of course insurance goes up, because people are now using their insurance, which, is suppose to be the purpose of having it. Yet, insurance is the one thing you pay for religiously and is expected to never use, which doesn't make sense, and then there are people like you who they have tricked into thinking ...this is normal.

Any other profession, when something breaks down ...they run to you, but insurances is the only one that runs away when you try to use it. If you had a car wreck and you hit a wreckers business, they would smile because they just got a job. IF you had a wreck and hit a hospital, they would rush you inside for medical treatment, because once more, they got business. If you had a wreck and you are at a auto shop, they would put your car in for repairs. Insurance is the only thing in that field that would run away from you, because, they would have to pay up all that money they got from you for years.

Money that they got for services not rendered and if you are more likely to use their services then you become ....a problem. Which ...once more doesn't make sense, they want your money but they want it so they can do nothing. You can't make that ..a sound thing, because in the end, they get paid for nothing and bellyache if they have to do their job.

Who truly needs insurance, people who will use it. Who do insurances want? People who won't use it....

This does not make sense.


Insurance is something you are supposed to get when you don't need it. You pay your premium that is based on data and statistics that the insurers collect. Health insurers rely on a pool of the healthy (the young and fit) to pay for those who do get sick. Now when you force companies to accept those who already have serious health issues, and the pool of healthy people is too small to pay for the sick, that companies are forced to insure, they naturally have to raise the premiums that the healthy have to pay otherwise they run out of money. That's the way just about all insurance works. When the government steps in and mandates things that effect the way insurance companies calculate their premiums it throws the whole thing out of wack and raises the price people have to pay for it.



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Posted 12/24/16 , edited 12/24/16

kevz_210 wrote:


Silentveil wrote:

Claps, I give you a lot of credit ...you chose two professions that aren't going anywhere any time soon, smart.

As for unaffordable student loans, if you can pay for a 63,000 car ..then you can pay back your loans. If you can pay 1,000 for an apartment every month ...then you can pay back your loans. It means you have to sacrifice, the problem is ..no one think they have to do that or see a loan as that type of investment. That is the student's fault, because no one makes them take it.

Older people and discrimination, this once more is a problem that can be solved on the people level. They need a union, they need to be members of a union, because, discrimination is illegal for any reason. As for being de facto unemployable at age 50, well, that is understandable too ..why should I hire you to do a job I can pay someone else half price for? Better yet, what job are you aiming for where experience isn't a plus? This is why you must constantly better yourself, otherwise, you will be left behind and you can't blame people for that fate.

Insurance, I agree with you there, and I can't tell you have to fix it. This is one of those that I agree the government needs to step in, but after the way President Obama was treated for trying to deal with this problem ..I doubt anyone will try to fix it ever again. Some times it's better to acknowledge a bad idea, especially when it's the only one being given, and work with it ...then to do nothing. That's the insurance situation.

You are still trying to do trickle down economies and it doesn't work. You won't fix that problem working from the top down....because the problem isn't at the top ..it's at the bottom. A lower standard of living isn't a bad thing, if it's what you can afford. The problem is, people live above their means, and then complain because they can't afford it. Our standard of living isn't realistic, that is what nearly caused the recession in the first place and we have learned nothing from it. It why 50% of the countries wealthy is in 1% of the population's hands. Taking a step back isn't bad if it allows you to keep moving forward. I mean, you can't depend on the government to do everything for you, otherwise, you lose all ability to do anything for yourself.


Edited.
SS - Is a problem that only affect those that hope the government will take care of them, instead of putting something aside for themselves. In other words, you need to setup your own savings, not depend on someone to do it for you. Medicare ...is nice, I wish all of our insurance work that way, and we were able to pay into that. But, once more, government given ...government taken away, and like insurance ...I have no real answer for that.


1) Who the hell takes out a $63,000 car loan Either you're loaded or a sucker.
So here's the problem, you have private universities (mainly the for profit ones) essentially scamming poor and working class students into buying worthless and overpriced educations. Why these "universities" are still accredited is beyond me, no other developed country would put up with these snake oil salesmen. I graduated with $23k debt, but I paid it off in two years by continuing to live like a broke college student a little bit longer. That being said, when I hear of people being stuck with 200k debt with a worthless degree from some scam artists, I don't have the heart to tell them that financially their life is screwed. There is no way you can escape that much student loan debt with variable interest rates unless your a doctor, successful lawyer or had a relative leave you a small inheritance. Since student loans are not discharged in bankruptcy you are trapped, and if you have a cosigner, your parents being kicked to the streets is a possibility. We need to get rid of bankruptcy protections for private student loans so that lenders will stop lending insane amounts of money for these worthless degrees. They can evaluate the given person's credit history and projected future salary on a case by case basis. You would still be able to afford public universities off of a manageable Stafford debt limit of $35,000. I went to private school, but that was off a steep scholarship. People need to stop telling lies to their children that they can go to any university they get accepted into regardless of their families ability to pay. I didn't grow up with a lot of money and I sure as hell didn't give super expensive schools even a minute's glance, time to face reality folks.


2) Know what the beauty of age discrimination is, it is impossible for an employee to prove.
Sometimes its more than the specific scenario you are referring to (young cheap employees come in and take jobs).
Often in the manufacturing industry entire shop gets sent to the developing world, the young workers find some other form of employment, but the older ones are completely screwed. I agree that in today's crappy economy it is more important than ever to learn basic business skills and have the proper qualifications to operate a small business or as an independent contractor as fall back income. It's part of the reason I'm nolifing my post graduate education and professional licensing qualifications before I hit 40 so that if I get tossed to the curb I will still be employable in one capacity or another.

3) The problem with the consistently getting experience is that it is easier said than done. When you are older and have more responsibilities you become even more time strapped, but that is the least of it. Right now entire industries are shutting down and workers need to be retrained with an entire new skill set. Problem most of these programs are expensive and the United States spends next to nothing compared to other developed countries on such programs as a % of GDP. This is going to create long term structural unemployment, especially since on the top training for entry level positions is something more and more companies don't want to pay for anymore.

4) Insurance is a mess, no idea how to fix it, but the status quo is unsustainable. Sure more people got insurance, but the middle classes' medical bills are going through the roof, eventually there will be a breaking point where ironically those who fall in the middle will be those who are the predominantly new uninsured.

5) Productivity growth is at an all time high and wages are flat, I entirely disagree with you in this regards. Up until the 1970s, when productivity went up wages went up with it, not anymore. Instead we have grossly paid executives and senior management and declining wages and benefits down at the bottom. Part of the reason is that if anyone tries to fight against that there is an entire world of destitute people who will work for essentially nothing (i.e. Global race to the bottom economics)
It would be one thing if the entire US economy was going down the toilet, but instead we are getting a hollowing out of the middle class (rich getting richer, poor getting poorer). Just take a trip to the developing world to see what the consequences to such a society are. (i.e. higher crime, more broken families and more civil unrest). I also suggest reading articles on absolute vs relative poverty on why absolute poverty isn't the only metric for gauging the economic health of a society.

6)" SS - Is a problem that only affect those that hope the government will take care of them, instead of putting something aside for themselves."
In an ideal world that should seem obvious. However, as a realist this will not happen for many, especially with those working for poverty level wages. Either we fix SS or we have an elderly homeless epidemic, choice is yours and as a first world country I think keeping the elderly off the streets is the bare minimum we should strive for.

7)No idea either, but current spending levels are unsustainable, although big pharm's recent price gouging isn't helping.


1# Got a lexus/hybrid.
Though it's funny that you make fun of that price, and make the comment that you do. I think the same thing about someone paying that much for school, and you aren't saying my situation is pitiful ...you think I am stupid for paying that much for a car, especially, if I can't afford it. Why does your feelings change when it comes to college? Should they have protection like bankruptcy, shrugs they can but ...if not ...that is their fault. They need to do research into their loans, they need to do research into their career field and into the school they chose. The problem is, people's choices are so protected that even when they get it wrong, there is a shield around them. That shouldn't be. When you protect people from everything, they forget how to protect themselves. This isn't something that the government needs to fix, this is something people need to fix themselves by being more sensible in where they choose to go to school and stop trying to pretend they are something that they are not.

2# Once again very smart of you, and I know it can be hard to prove ....because a lot of people put their head in the sand and once more, they don't work together. This is where unions come into play, if you are all part of the same union it becomes a lot clearer if that sort of thing is happening. Can it always be proven, no, but depending on how many years you work at a place you should have some idea of what type of environment you are in. As for not being able to evolve to fit into the newer places, I am not sure what to say about that one ...other than what you said about your plan, which is smart. You have to make sure your skills are useful and needed, and as you grow older you shouldn't be in the same position, but should go up the chain of command to a higher position. If you stay in the same place as where you enter...there is a good chance that you will be exited, unless you got one of those jobs that is highly needed and understaffed. It's the risk you take, because why should I pay you ...more for a job when I can pay someone else less for the same job? Better yet, why should I pay more for something that will be around for less? Harsh, but the business world has no feelings.

3#Yes it's hard, but, no one makes you get a family. No one makes you do any of these things, so, you have to do what you have to do to survive. I don't quite understand this one...but, I do agree the government should help out more with retraining, especially if a large number of those jobs are being outsourced or going away. Though, people shouldn't wait until the last minute either, in a lot of those cases, there was classes set up to retrain for other things and the writing was place on the wall about it a long time ago. People sometimes have the thought process that ....nothing is every going to change, and that going to those other classes is simply a snake charmer at work. Also, people should have more than one skill, but after the fact, I have to admit ...that is hard situation to deal with.

4# Yup, I agree, but change isn't easy nor painless. I just hope we don't stop here, it still needs to be worked on. Sighs, look ..I hate those labels, middle class ...poor ..whatever, they enjoying putting us against each other like a bunch of raging bulls. If middle class drop down to poor ...and poor gets the cheaper prices ....then who will pick up the bill after that ...looks at the rich. Though as long as their is a distinction, you fight for that status ...which doesn't have any perks and nothing but flaws. I wouldn't mind falling into the poor category, so they can stop ...jumping on me for being middle-class, because I know I don't make enough money to be rich and the rich doesn't want me with their classifications either ...because they have some perks as well.


5# That is just further proof that trickle down economies is a bust.
First off, if they are not paying what people are worth ...then these business should be struggling, but they are not. You know why, because, we have something called credit. Credit allows them to bill us, for products we can't pay for and make us spend years in paying with trump up interest. This means, we are living outside our means, which, allow for them to make huge profits without driving up wages. If we stop using credit, they would raise up wages ...to get more people to buy more products. They would also drop the prices of those products, because they would sale them ...at a price that is affordable. As for those executives, well, they are the ones that work on finding ways to up their profits, which is worth more to them ...then people making it ...because they will buy no matter ...even if their wages are poor and it's unfair.

IT's a horrible circle, but we are the beginning and the end of it, and as long as we look for someone else to fix it ...that problem will never end. At this point, it will be painful to end, but it's not going to get any better.

6# See the problem here ...isn't that its unrealistic ...it's not considered to be important. I mean, people pay for insurance every month, and no one thinks a wit about it. That amount every month going into a retirement fund could be quite helpful, especially over time, and it will pay you back ...unlike insurance. You think it's realistic for every child to move out of their parent's home when they turn 18 or older....poor or not. WE think it's realistic that everyone owns a car, or that it's realistic for every kid to graduate high school ...no matter what. We have a lot of unrealistic expectations, but having a retirement fund isn't one of them. The government once more, has no place there, and its slowly weaning people off of it ...because SS isn't free either. You have to pay to get something out, but it's just not getting the type of interest that it should. Thus, people need their own instead of hoping someone else will do it for them.


7# Wish I could add, but, ....as we both agree ...this is a problem neither one of us can solve nor seem solvable.
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Posted 12/24/16 , edited 12/24/16

Xxanthar wrote:


Silentveil wrote:


Xxanthar wrote:

Forcing companies to insure pre-existing conditions is of the things driving up costs. It's kind of like forcing a car insurance company to insure a drunk driver who just crashed into their building.That's not how insurance works.



Yeah, you know you picked the exact something thing twice to explain a situation ...just in a different department, because both are insurance.

Now, of course insurance goes up, because people are now using their insurance, which, is suppose to be the purpose of having it. Yet, insurance is the one thing you pay for religiously and is expected to never use, which doesn't make sense, and then there are people like you who they have tricked into thinking ...this is normal.

Any other profession, when something breaks down ...they run to you, but insurances is the only one that runs away when you try to use it. If you had a car wreck and you hit a wreckers business, they would smile because they just got a job. IF you had a wreck and hit a hospital, they would rush you inside for medical treatment, because once more, they got business. If you had a wreck and you are at a auto shop, they would put your car in for repairs. Insurance is the only thing in that field that would run away from you, because, they would have to pay up all that money they got from you for years.

Money that they got for services not rendered and if you are more likely to use their services then you become ....a problem. Which ...once more doesn't make sense, they want your money but they want it so they can do nothing. You can't make that ..a sound thing, because in the end, they get paid for nothing and bellyache if they have to do their job.

Who truly needs insurance, people who will use it. Who do insurances want? People who won't use it....

This does not make sense.


Insurance is something you are supposed to get when you don't need it. You pay your premium that is based on data and statistics that the insurers collect. Health insurers rely on a pool of the healthy (the young and fit) to pay for those who do get sick. Now when you force companies to accept those who already have serious health issues, and the pool of healthy people is too small to pay for the sick, that companies are forced to insure, they naturally have to raise the premiums that the healthy have to pay otherwise they run out of money. That's the way just about all insurance works. When the government steps in and mandates things that effect the way insurance companies calculate their premiums it throws the whole thing out of wack and raises the price people have to pay for it.




(Insurance is something you are suppose to get when you don't need it)

Which is the same as saying ....you pay for something you don't use.

Better yet, when you use it ...they charge you for using it. They call that a deductible, and if you don't exceed your deductible ...you pay it all out of pocket. Insurance simply pick up the bill if it becomes too much for you to pay, so in other words, you are still paying for something you don't use or you only use in the extreme cases. Which is ....sick people or when you actually become really sick. The same people, they don't want ...because then they will use their services.

Now let me throw a little twist here...if you start to use it constantly even if you have been paying it forever, they will go up on the price. So, they reward people for not using it, and punish people for using it ...no matter how long you have been paying into the company.


Let me give you something better, if you use it too much ...they had a claus to actually drop you. Which is the drunk drive ..situation. My case, I had my home broken into four times in the same year, insurance on the home had been paid for 24 years without any hesitation or problem. They sent me a letter telling me they will have a committee meeting to decide if they want to still insure me based on that fact. Once more, punish because it's being used, I just got lucky they caught the robbers that same month otherwise .....I would have more first hand knowledge of the uselessness of insurance.

Another 11 years later ....no problems, and I pay consistently. They go up on the deductible after my area was hit by a tornado and had wind storms ...so, they don't want you to use it, but they want to charge you every month for it. I got lucky, I only lost a fence, and few shingles, but they fought like hell over those improvements. This is considering the price of your home does down over time, but, insurance never drops no matter what.

Even with the bigger pool of sick people, how many years have those companies run where the sick people weren't there and what type of profit had they been making. If they have profit margins that is unattainable when done correctly ...and it's not going to break their business why do you blame ...other people for their corruptness or better yet, want them to continue to get away with it. My demand would be to set a set price rate, not worry because the poor overpaid company won't remain over paid.

They have you believing that it's okay ....to fleece you, and you actually defend them on that right.

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Posted 12/24/16 , edited 12/24/16

nekroneko wrote:

Got news for you OP, that is only going to get worse. It's not Obama's fault, it's not Bush's fault, it's not Clinton's fault and it won't be Trumps fault. It's just how things are because this is what capitalism does. It creates an environment whereby producing as much as possible with as little overhead as possible to be sold as cheaply as possible. Technology, name computers, robotics and AI will continue to push people out of the workforce as they are cheaper, faster and more reliable than any human workforce can be. Question is, what will people do when they have no where left to turn to? Not everyone can be a scientist, doctor, programmer and such. Hell, even they will be under threat eventually which leaves creative endeavours, but not everyone can do that either. This means you will end up with masses of dependants needing to be clothed, fed, housed and so on. Keep living in that bubble where you think democrats are inept and only republicans can fix everything, but sadly, there is no escaping the reality of what is inevitably coming.

The coming couple of decades are going to be some of the most challenging as we have to evolve beyond mass consumption and become a more altruistic society. Sometimes it's better for you in the long run if you help others in need in the short term.


National base salary for being a citizen seems to be the future. We could have a national robotics tax as well for people who employ and license their machines to task where humans once did. Just a thought.
Posted 12/24/16 , edited 12/24/16

Silentveil wrote:



(Insurance is something you are suppose to get when you don't need it)

Which is the same as saying ....you pay for something you don't use.

Better yet, when you use it ...they charge you for using it. They call that a deductible, and if you don't exceed your deductible ...you pay it all out of pocket. Insurance simply pick up the bill if it becomes too much for you to pay, so in other words, you are still paying for something you don't use or you only use in the extreme cases. Which is ....sick people or when you actually become really sick. The same people, they don't want ...because then they will use their services.

Now let me throw a little twist here...if you start to use it constantly even if you have been paying it forever, they will go up on the price. So, they reward people for not using it, and punish people for using it ...no matter how long you have been paying into the company.


Let me give you something better, if you use it too much ...they had a claus to actually drop you. Which is the drunk drive ..situation. My case, I had my home broken into four times in the same year, insurance on the home had been paid for 24 years without any hesitation or problem. They sent me a letter telling me they will have a committee meeting to decide if they want to still insure me based on that fact. Once more, punish because it's being used, I just got lucky they caught the robbers that same month otherwise .....I would have more first hand knowledge of the uselessness of insurance.

Another 11 years later ....no problems, and I pay consistently. They go up on the deductible after my area was hit by a tornado and had wind storms ...so, they don't want you to use it, but they want to charge you every month for it. I got lucky, I only lost a fence, and few shingles, but they fought like hell over those improvements. This is considering the price of your home does down over time, but, insurance never drops no matter what.

Even with the bigger pool of sick people, how many years have those companies run where the sick people weren't there and what type of profit had they been making. If they have profit margins that is unattainable when done correctly ...and it's not going to break their business why do you blame ...other people for their corruptness or better yet, want them to continue to get away with it. My demand would be to set a set price rate, not worry because the poor overpaid company won't remain over paid.

They have you believing that it's okay ....to fleece you, and you actually defend them on that right.



This is how insurance works. Anything else is not insurance. Try being 80 years old and getting some regular life insurance.
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Posted 12/24/16 , edited 12/24/16

Xxanthar wrote:


This is how insurance works. Anything else is not insurance. Try being 80 years old and getting some regular life insurance.



If you expect nothing, don't be surprise when you get nothing.

I think what's happening to them now is what they deserve, but, it shouldn't stop at this point. It shouldn't be allowed to be push back on the consumer, but Obamacare is half finished, and we need to push further. Though it's not going to happen now, or at least for a while.

As for, this is how insurance works ...I will ask you this question.

What exactly do you get insurance for? It's not for peace of mind, because they make you fight for it.

Term life insurance, I bet the 80 year old had this, and now the policy is out and it's impossible to get regular life insurance. Insurance companies are so corrupt they used to buy these back from people, just to make sure, they didn't have to pay up for it in their later years. This is one more example of their robbery policy, because when you actually need it ..that is when they no longer want to give you any insurance ...no matter how long you have been with that company.

But, if you continue to say ...this is okay ...they will continue to take the free money and laugh in your face.

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