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Post Reply "The Americas" and "America" - An attempt to settle a internet argument that pops up occasionally
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Posted 12/26/16 , edited 12/27/16

Xxanthar wrote:

Who ever invented inventions, invented all inventions?


Me......yeah, I'm really, really old.
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Posted 12/26/16 , edited 12/27/16

DeadlyOats wrote:


Well..... Actually..... Henry Ford's version of the "internal combustion engine" was revolutionary, but it was actually invented by Karl Friedrich Benz (Mercedes Benz) in Germany, in 1885/86. Karl Benz invented the internal combustion engine for his automobile. However, it wasn't Karl Benz who invented the automobile... That was Nicolas-Joseph Cugnot, of France, in 1769. Nicolas-Joseph Cugnot's automobile used a steam engine to get it going.

What Henry Ford actually invented was the "Assembly Line," which revolutionized car manufacturing, by mass producing automobiles, cheaply. This is what made automobiles (already in existence) much more practical, and easier to obtain, not only by the wealthy, but by regular middle class type folks.

Robert Anderson, of Scotland, invented the first electric car developing it between 1832 - 1839, but electric cars didn't catch the imagination. It was internal combustion engined cars that got the spotlight.

Imagine if Henry Ford had decided to mass produce electric cars instead of gasoline powered internal combustion engined cars? What a different world we would live in, today.

http://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/mysteries/auto.html


Yes, I may have been incorrect, but I think you understood my basic point, based on the info you laid down.
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Posted 12/26/16 , edited 12/26/16

Rujikin wrote:

Manifest destiny mother fucker! Its ALL ours!!!





LOL!
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Posted 12/26/16 , edited 12/26/16

MakotoKamui wrote:


johnnymcool wrote:

What happened to my post correcting myself on the spelling of your crunchyroll name, stating that spell check messed it up?

Anyway, either you are not quite understanding what I'm saying, or you are once again being intellectually dishonest. With out the first idea and version of something, you can't have any improvements on something, because you need the groundwork to build upon. Example, if it weren't for the first cars (and the car was invented in the U.S. just like the computer) there would be no modern cars being used currently, despite design improvements or where they were/are manufactured.


Funny, the idea of the computer didn't come from the USA - you might look into punch card processing, Charles Babbage, Alan Turing, Konrad Zuse, George Booble, Tommy Flowers, ESDAC, Ferranti Mk 1, etc. Not USA based.

Which particular device do you consider to be the first computer? I'm pretty sure I can name something that preceded it, as a first idea or version of it.

But my point was merely that my computer has parts manufactured in a number of countries - including the good old US of A. So it is definitely partly United States of America manufactured, definitely. I'm just giving credit where credit is due, since you asked with your post to someone else

And what country do you come from? The computer you're typing on, and the internet? American. Just to let you know.


So literally, no, my computer is not American. It's partly made in the Americas, however. And the first idea or version of the computer isn't American, either, no matter if you mean the USA or the continent.


Modern day p.c's are not of American origin? The mac is not of American origin? The internet and the iPhone is not of American origin?

I think you know what I meant about all of this.
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Posted 12/26/16 , edited 12/26/16

johnnymcool wrote:

Modern day p.c's are not of American origin? The mac is not of American origin? The internet and the iPhone is not of American origin?

I think you know what I meant about all of this.


Well, this is why I asked - which particular device do you consider to be the first computer? Now you're jumping to iPhones and modern day PCs, while previously arguing about how the first idea of something was important, without which you can't have improvements. And I agree with you, previous ideas built up to modern day PCs, Macs, and iPhones.

As for the internet, it's very much the same. Packet transfer research was being done in the US.. and the UK and France. ARPANET was pretty much the grandfather of the internet, and it was shared research.

There's plenty of credit to go around. Including, but not exclusively, with the US. To try to claim otherwise seems dishonest to me. Also, I love the history of computers, it's fascinating stuff. Like the development of RSA, which was developed here in the US.. though technically discovered many years earlier and marked classified in the UK (and passed in secret to the US NSA). Still officially released first by folks in the US who did not work from the classified version in the UK, though both were developed based on concepts far older, which had been written about but not implemented. It gets complicated.
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Posted 12/26/16
The first computers - ever. Here they are:

http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000984.htm
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Posted 12/26/16

MakotoKamui wrote:


johnnymcool wrote:

Modern day p.c's are not of American origin? The mac is not of American origin? The internet and the iPhone is not of American origin?

I think you know what I meant about all of this.


Well, this is why I asked - which particular device do you consider to be the first computer? Now you're jumping to iPhones and modern day PCs, while previously arguing about how the first idea of something was important, without which you can't have improvements. And I agree with you, previous ideas built up to modern day PCs, Macs, and iPhones.

As for the internet, it's very much the same. Packet transfer research was being done in the US.. and the UK and France. ARPANET was pretty much the grandfather of the internet, and it was shared research.

There's plenty of credit to go around. Including, but not exclusively, with the US. To try to claim otherwise seems dishonest to me. Also, I love the history of computers, it's fascinating stuff. Like the development of RSA, which was developed here in the US.. though technically discovered many years earlier and marked classified in the UK (and passed in secret to the US NSA). Still officially released first by folks in the US who did not work from the classified version in the UK, though both were developed based on concepts far older, which had been written about but not implemented. It gets complicated.


Ah, I see what the issue is. It's in what context are we talking about when I mention computer, or what I mean. The last post from deadly oats says that the first p.c. was made by an American.

If you really want to be as technical as possible, then the first "computers" (obviously not electronic) goes all the way back to the ancient mesopotamians if you count the abacus, though the name is greek. So there's your very first computers!
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Posted 12/26/16

johnnymcool wrote:

Ah, I see what the issue is. It's in what context are we talking about when I mention computer, or what I mean. The last post from deadly oats says that the first p.c. was made by an American.

If you really want to be as technical as possible, then the first "computers" (obviously not electronic) goes all the way back to the ancient mesopotamians if you count the abacus, though the name is greek. So there's your very first computers!


Okay, we're all on the same page, finally. We can all agree that an American coined the term "personal computer". Totally on board with that. You might notice many of the names from my previous post in the link from DeadlyOats, though that particular link is new to me. Good reading!
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Posted 12/26/16 , edited 12/27/16
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Posted 12/26/16

MakotoKamui wrote:


johnnymcool wrote:

Ah, I see what the issue is. It's in what context are we talking about when I mention computer, or what I mean. The last post from deadly oats says that the first p.c. was made by an American.

If you really want to be as technical as possible, then the first "computers" (obviously not electronic) goes all the way back to the ancient mesopotamians if you count the abacus, though the name is greek. So there's your very first computers!


Okay, we're all on the same page, finally. We can all agree that an American coined the term "personal computer". Totally on board with that. You might notice many of the names from my previous post in the link from DeadlyOats, though that particular link is new to me. Good reading!


Good reading, indeed.
Posted 12/26/16
I feel like "America" is an umbrella term.
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Posted 12/27/16
Okay geographically there's no argument unless the N/S poles flipped. But as far as sentiments goes...

Most of the non-USA countries don't associate their national identities with "America" except for maybe the neighboring Canada which doesn't want to feel left out. Even Mexico does not want to be a part of North America and likes to be categorically Central American because they don't want to be North or South America.

Courtesy of many many many bloody wars for independence, most of the South American countries do not consider themselves one of the Americas but their own independent, sovereign country.

It's nice really that no one really wants to compete with the USA for the American title, even Canada.
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Posted 12/27/16

Ejanss wrote:


kromph wrote:

This was a debate??????


Well, he's trying to reassure Canada that "America" also means a continent--
And that Canadian indigenous natives don't have to call themselves "First Nation" because they're nationalistically offended at being called "Native Am******s".

Two hundred years of paranoia runs deep and cultural in the blood of Canada's veins.


PrinceGrimm wrote:

Hawaii and Alaska aren't a part of America, they're not in bold :^)


Alaska thinks it's not part of America anyway, and Hawaii keeps wanting to declare tribal war against the mainland.



America isn't a continent, North America is...

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StormYul wrote:

Okay geographically there's no argument unless the N/S poles flipped. But as far as sentiments goes...

Most of the non-USA countries don't associate their national identities with "America" except for maybe the neighboring Canada which doesn't want to feel left out. Even Mexico does not want to be a part of North America and likes to be categorically Central American because they don't want to be North or South America.

Courtesy of many many many bloody wars for independence, most of the South American countries do not consider themselves one of the Americas but their own independent, sovereign country.

It's nice really that no one really wants to compete with the USA for the American title, even Canada.


As a Patriotic Canadian, I think that I have to give this post One Thumbs Up for recognizing that we don't think of ourselves as American in any way at all!

As a Patriotic Canadian, I have to give this post One Thumbs DOWN for saying that we don't want to be left out of the American national identities debate.

Seriously, We Are Canadian! Not American, not in any way, shape or form! While we do occasionally imitate American verbiage, that is only because of the prevalence of American TV shows in our country. Not out of Conscious Desire.

We are a young country, a young nation still coming to terms with who and what we are, no different than our neighbors to the south. Main difference is that we do it quietly (generally speaking) while they tend to be more vocal (with the occasional chest beating).

We don't take ourselves as seriously as we should sometimes ( I point you to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRI-A3vakVg , or even Bob and Doug McKenzie from the SCTV comedy show). Self deprecating humour aside, we are NOT American, we just happen to share the Northern Continent with them.

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Posted 12/27/16

StormYul wrote:

Okay geographically there's no argument unless the N/S poles flipped. But as far as sentiments goes...

Most of the non-USA countries don't associate their national identities with "America" except for maybe the neighboring Canada which doesn't want to feel left out. Even Mexico does not want to be a part of North America and likes to be categorically Central American because they don't want to be North or South America.

Courtesy of many many many bloody wars for independence, most of the South American countries do not consider themselves one of the Americas but their own independent, sovereign country.

It's nice really that no one really wants to compete with the USA for the American title, even Canada.





kromph wrote:


Ejanss wrote:


kromph wrote:

This was a debate??????


Well, he's trying to reassure Canada that "America" also means a continent--
And that Canadian indigenous natives don't have to call themselves "First Nation" because they're nationalistically offended at being called "Native Am******s".

Two hundred years of paranoia runs deep and cultural in the blood of Canada's veins.


PrinceGrimm wrote:

Hawaii and Alaska aren't a part of America, they're not in bold :^)


Alaska thinks it's not part of America anyway, and Hawaii keeps wanting to declare tribal war against the mainland.



America isn't a continent, North America is...





N/S poles flipped? Time for some manifest destiny!!!

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