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Post Reply Is President Obama self-destructing?
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Posted 12/31/16 , edited 12/31/16

FlyinDumpling wrote:
You misspelled Trump.


+2



mxdan wrote:
At the very least be prepared to be made into a fool.


You can't shame a fool that's too big of a fool to even understand why they're a fool. It's practically Trump's superpower.



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Posted 12/31/16 , edited 12/31/16

VZ68 wrote:


ran76 wrote:

Are you still on that falsehood? Give it up. I'm legally allowed to vote for PotUS even if I live in PR.



No, you are not.

Voting rights of United States citizens in Puerto Rico, like the voting rights of residents of other United States territories, differ from those of United States citizens in each of the fifty states and the District of Columbia. Residents of Puerto Rico and other U.S. territories do not have voting representation in the United States Congress, and are not entitled to electoral votes for President.
The United States Constitution grants congressional voting representation to U.S. states, which Puerto Rico and other U.S. territories are not, specifying that members of Congress shall be elected by direct popular vote and that the President and the Vice President shall be elected by electors chosen by the States.

Puerto Ricans don't get congressional representation, and Puerto Rico does not get ELECTORAL (ELECTORAL COLLEGE) votes, but the people CAN AND DO, VOTE in presidential primaries, and their delegates do go to the national conventions of each party, and they do vote for their presidential nominee. Additionally, since 1917, Puerto Ricans ARE U.S. citizens, not just residents.

Think of Puerto Rico as Oklahoma or Colorado, before those became states. The people had to vote to join the Union. That's the situation with Puerto Rico. They haven't gotten enough votes in past referendums, to become a state, yet. That's why they are in the unique situation that they are - in our life times. Maybe, in a future referendum, they'll vote to join the Union, and become the 51st state.
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Posted 12/31/16 , edited 12/31/16

ninjitsuko wrote:


VZ68 wrote:

And this is why we need stronger voting laws. If I have to show ID and fill out a 4473 in order to buy a firearm from a dealer, then I should have to show ID to vote.


We need a lot of things, personally. Gun control is a totally different topic; as I believe in the right to own one, but also believe that it should be treated like a vehicle (take a "learners" course and/or pass a practical exam regarding safety and handling of firearms). Not trying to divert the topic entirely.. just since firearms came up, may as well..

Voting needs to be more secure on all fronts. ID isn't going to be enough without some centralized database that handles a number of votes that a person's ID has cast (there would be ways of getting around having to show ID). There would also need to be infrastructure security (network and so forth) to avoid external or internal hacks. As it stands, we use either voting machines that are antiquated (technology wise) or paper votes that don't require any form of identification to utilize.

As for the PR thing - I would rather just give them official status so that they wouldn't feel obliged (or tempted) to go through these loopholes in order to vote for someone that has authority over their area. Washington DC has done similar in the past (to be able to vote), so no harm in doing the same for PR and similar locations. Or, on the other hand, one could find arguments to simply cut all ties with such territories and avoid all of the officialness; but would cause a cluster fluff altogether when thinking about the paperwork required to determine how to "cancel" their citizenship status.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act

We already have the ID law in place, it's just slow going right now to get all 50 states on the same page.

There is zero good reason that we should allow PR into the US as a state, they have nothing to offer us and would be twice as bad off as the worst current state in the Union. Cut them loose, allow them to be on their own and stop giving them citizenship by birth and for the ones that already have citizenship, they have a couple of years to move to the US, become a full PR citizen, or be cut loose.
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Posted 12/31/16 , edited 12/31/16

VZ68 wrote:


mxdan wrote:

Just start a movement to garner Republican support in Puerto Rico and VZ68 would support your right to vote ran76. xD


I would not.

I do no support Puerto Rico for statehood, and I believe we should cut them completely loose, and remove ourselves from their Island.


You say that too lightly. Many Puerto Ricans have joined the U.S. military, and have fought in our wars over the long time that they have been a U.S. territory. They have a very deep stake in their own determination to vote or not to vote to join the Union.

I want them to join. I hope they do.
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Posted 12/31/16 , edited 12/31/16

DeadlyOats wrote:


VZ68 wrote:


mxdan wrote:

Just start a movement to garner Republican support in Puerto Rico and VZ68 would support your right to vote ran76. xD


I would not.

I do no support Puerto Rico for statehood, and I believe we should cut them completely loose, and remove ourselves from their Island.


You say that too lightly. Many Puerto Ricans have joined the U.S. military, and have fought in our wars over the long time that they have been a U.S. territory. They have a very deep stake in their own determination to vote or not to vote to join the Union.

I want them to join. I hope they do.




They had their chance. Time for them to strike out on their own instead of being another welfare state. Only now that they are out of money and falling apart do they want to join the US full force.
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Posted 12/31/16 , edited 12/31/16

mxdan wrote:
The thing that gets me. That drives me crazy. Is just how misinformed people have become.

Like ignorance is one thing. If you don't want to go and research how Obama has tried to help Trump get up to speed on the issues and how Trump himself has said that Obama has been very helpful then that's fine. If you don't want to research how trump has all but stopped going to his debriefs that's cool. But don't take to some public place and spread false bullshit because you hear some biased site tell you something. At the very least be prepared to be made into a fool.


Obama had one or two meetings with Trump, then had his lackeys start giving him "Intelligence updates" which were apparently just long detailed reports that gave no new information on a daily basis. Aside from going to some other countries to give speeches degrading the image of the U.S. he went on vacation and then the actions that are stacking up...

I didn't ask if you wanted Obama to be your boyfriend, I just wanted to know if anyone else was concerned the man might shoot himself in the coming month... You guys can't even stop your partisan hatred to worry about someone else for 1 minute, can you? For all we know he'll take an uzi to the UN and commit suicide by peace officer.

As for the liberal (which happen to be incredibly anti-liberal) trolls, just ignore them. They're under the mod's protection because they agree with their twisted views. There's no need to sink to their level. Just let them satisfy themselves with their unintelligent jabs, they won't know the difference if you ignore their flames.
mxdan 
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Posted 12/31/16 , edited 12/31/16

Emtro wrote:


mxdan wrote:
The thing that gets me. That drives me crazy. Is just how misinformed people have become.

Like ignorance is one thing. If you don't want to go and research how Obama has tried to help Trump get up to speed on the issues and how Trump himself has said that Obama has been very helpful then that's fine. If you don't want to research how trump has all but stopped going to his debriefs that's cool. But don't take to some public place and spread false bullshit because you hear some biased site tell you something. At the very least be prepared to be made into a fool.


Obama had one or two meetings with Trump, then had his lackeys start giving him "Intelligence updates" which were apparently just long detailed reports that gave no new information on a daily basis. Aside from going to some other countries to give speeches degrading the image of the U.S. he went on vacation and then the actions that are stacking up...

I didn't ask if you wanted Obama to be your boyfriend, I just wanted to know if anyone else was concerned the man might shoot himself in the coming month... You guys can't even stop your partisan hatred to worry about someone else for 1 minute, can you? For all we know he'll take an uzi to the UN and commit suicide by peace officer.

As for the liberal (which happen to be incredibly anti-liberal) trolls, just ignore them. They're under the mod's protection because they agree with their twisted views. There's no need to sink to their level. Just let them satisfy themselves with their unintelligent jabs, they won't know the difference if you ignore their flames.


That's a lot of conjecture and little substance my friend. You make claims that spin situations way out of line with a truthful narrative because you look at the current system of government with lens that isn't true. Just like your initial post.

The mods here are fairly bipartisan. Honestly, I don't think they could give a shit about who is right or who is wrong. Only, you and the people who think like you do tend to do little to back up your claims with solid sourced evidence and often result to ad hominem slurs and memes. It's kind of a trend if you haven't noticed.
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Posted 12/31/16 , edited 12/31/16
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Posted 12/31/16 , edited 1/1/17

mxdan wrote:


descloud wrote:

Democrats are cry babies.


Is this an ironic comment?

Cause nearly every comment preceding this is a Republican crying about something.


The difference is that our voters on republican side were not literally crying like the democratic voters when our candidate lost.
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Posted 12/31/16 , edited 12/31/16

DeadlyOats wrote:


VZ68 wrote:


mxdan wrote:

Just start a movement to garner Republican support in Puerto Rico and VZ68 would support your right to vote ran76. xD


I would not.

I do no support Puerto Rico for statehood, and I believe we should cut them completely loose, and remove ourselves from their Island.


You say that too lightly. Many Puerto Ricans have joined the U.S. military, and have fought in our wars over the long time that they have been a U.S. territory. They have a very deep stake in their own determination to vote or not to vote to join the Union.

I want them to join. I hope they do.


The problem with Puerto Rico becoming a state. Is that they would have to essentially give up being "Puerto Rican" in favor of "American". Which would be detrimental to their national pride.

On the other hand...

Yes they have served in the military for a very long time. It even dates back to the American revolution. But many do not know this, or care to.
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Posted 12/31/16 , edited 12/31/16
If you agree with me, you are obviously literate and informed
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Posted 12/31/16 , edited 12/31/16

descloud wrote:


mxdan wrote:


descloud wrote:

Democrats are cry babies.


Is this an ironic comment?

Cause nearly every comment preceding this is a Republican crying about something.


The difference is that our voters on republican side were not literally crying like the democratic voters when our candidate lost.

because . . . your candidate didn't lose?? so i'm not sure what point you're trying to make there. unless you're saying people didn't cry when mitt romney or other previous republican candidates lost, which is like 100% obviously false

the sad thing is that you guys won, and you're STILL crying over petty stuff like this
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Posted 12/31/16 , edited 12/31/16
I support his last minute environmental reforms at least. We all know Trump is going to open the floodgates anyway. Might as well save what we can. Damage control and all that.

I also don't buy the idea of a lame duck president, unless they have wildly unpopular ratings. We elected Obama for 2 full terms, not 1 3/4. On Jan 20 Trump can take over. Until then Obama should do what he thinks is best. At least half the country still supports him.
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Posted 12/31/16 , edited 12/31/16

limeparadox wrote:


descloud wrote:


mxdan wrote:


descloud wrote:

Democrats are cry babies.


Is this an ironic comment?

Cause nearly every comment preceding this is a Republican crying about something.


The difference is that our voters on republican side were not literally crying like the democratic voters when our candidate lost.

because . . . your candidate didn't lose?? so i'm not sure what point you're trying to make there. unless you're saying people didn't cry when mitt romney or other previous republican candidates lost, which is like 100% obviously false

the sad thing is that you guys won, and you're STILL crying over petty stuff like this


I'm not gonna say we're crying. I am gonna say that we are deflecting the Progressive Liberals' attempts to invalidate President Trump's proper and legitimate victory to the White House. I am also going to say that we are deflecting the Progressive Liberals' attempts to label Trump supporters as racists, and other bad things, because even if a very small sliver of American society are criminally racist, and other bad things, the over 62,000,000+ Americans are not racist, and or other bad things.

Trump won 62,979,879 votes, according to someone's count, while Clinton won 65,844,954. This is a difference of about 2.9 million votes. It is a very slim margin, no matter how you look at it. 2.9 million votes is the size of one mid-sized U.S. city. It was basically a statistical dead heat. So, half of the country is calling the other half, racist and other bad words, and it's not true.

It is divisive and unfair. If the Progressive Liberals are wondering why Trump supporters are still on the march (as it were), it's because we are fighting off such unjust labels and mischaracterizations. David Duke does not represent 62 million Americans.

http://archive.adl.org/learn/ext_us/kkk/default.html


More than 40 different Klan groups exist, many having multiple chapters, or “klaverns,” including a few that boast a presence in a large number of states. There are over a hundred different Klan chapters around the country, with a combined strength of members and associates that may total around 5,000.


Ironically, it is the Progressive Liberals that have turned to hatred, labeling, and racial profiling to cast aspersions against Trump supporters.
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Posted 12/31/16 , edited 12/31/16

kinga750 wrote:

I support his last minute environmental reforms at least. We all know Trump is going to open the floodgates anyway. Might as well save what we can. Damage control and all that.

I also don't buy the idea of a lame duck president, unless they have wildly unpopular ratings. We elected Obama for 2 full terms, not 1 3/4. On Jan 20 Trump can take over. Until then Obama should do what he thinks is best. At least half the country still supports him.


I agree with this. He is still President. However, I wish he wouldn't do stuff to sabotage Trump's presidency....
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