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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/4/17

Rujikin wrote:


Dark_Alma wrote:


People are easy to manipulate. Religion can manipulate people. I had a very dear friend of mine. We knew eachother for 3 years. He became a Christian after his gf converted him. He changed completely. He was no longer the person I knew. We stopped talking.

People are assholes, yes. Religion can make people assholes too. After all, religion can alter the way people think. Once again, look at the gays. Why are they hated so? They don't harm others, they wont influence you either. You should just be neutral to it. Religion says it is wrong though. After 200 generations of being told this by your parents, their parents parents... You begin to think it is true.

RELIGION CAN AND WILL CHANGE THE WAY PEOPLE THINK AND LIVE. I have seen it enough.


That is kind of the point of religion and atheism. However societies have developed quite differently under one religion vs another religion so you get to see a sort of natural evolution of one compared to another.

The problem is that some religions take stuff too far and it just becomes violence:

Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" - An account that is borrowed from the Biblical story of Sodom. Muslim scholars through the centuries have interpreted the "rain of stones" on the town as meaning that homosexuals should be stoned, since no other reason is given for the people's destruction.

Quran (4:16) - "If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone"


To be fair the old testament has its wacko verses as well:

Deuteronomy 17:
2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

It obviously doesn't mean that Christians have to follow this, especially since in other passages murder is banned. Moral of the story radical interpretation of any of these religions is the problem, not the entirety of adherents of that faith.
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/4/17

kevz_210 wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


Dark_Alma wrote:


People are easy to manipulate. Religion can manipulate people. I had a very dear friend of mine. We knew eachother for 3 years. He became a Christian after his gf converted him. He changed completely. He was no longer the person I knew. We stopped talking.

People are assholes, yes. Religion can make people assholes too. After all, religion can alter the way people think. Once again, look at the gays. Why are they hated so? They don't harm others, they wont influence you either. You should just be neutral to it. Religion says it is wrong though. After 200 generations of being told this by your parents, their parents parents... You begin to think it is true.

RELIGION CAN AND WILL CHANGE THE WAY PEOPLE THINK AND LIVE. I have seen it enough.


That is kind of the point of religion and atheism. However societies have developed quite differently under one religion vs another religion so you get to see a sort of natural evolution of one compared to another.

The problem is that some religions take stuff too far and it just becomes violence:

Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" - An account that is borrowed from the Biblical story of Sodom. Muslim scholars through the centuries have interpreted the "rain of stones" on the town as meaning that homosexuals should be stoned, since no other reason is given for the people's destruction.

Quran (4:16) - "If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone"


To be fair the old testament has its wacko verses as well:

Deuteronomy 17:
2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

It obviously doesn't mean that Christians have to follow this, especially since in other passages murder is banned. Moral of the story radical interpretation of any of these religions is the problem, not the entirety of adherents of that faith.


and here you have the difference, under Christian "rule"per say men and women can mix, you don't have public stoning and rapings, etc
infact christianityhelped carve western society, ....now go look at how the middle east is still like today, ....and what is being brought over -ahem,example in this video- its completely conflicting
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/7/17

Rujikin wrote:
I see your going with discrediting instead of actually discussing what I posted, like usual. Well I'm not taking that rotten bait.


What you posted was "Lebanon used to be a Christian nation till the Muslims showed up and ruined it all. Here's a random internet video."

Which shows a complete disregard for or ignorance of the complex history of Lebanon and even its current status.

Nevermind that Christians equally did some pretty horrifying shit in the conflicts in Lebanon and were hardly innocent victims being set upon by mean, nasty Muslims.

In the same years she's referring to being "introduced to radical Islam" innocent Muslims were likewise being "introduced to radical Christianity" in district wide slaughters of Muslims by Christian militias. And in fact it was the "Christians" that pulled the first wide spread attack on and slaughter of Muslim civilians. Not visa versa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_(Lebanon)



redokami wrote:
and here you have the difference, under Christian "rule"per say men and women can mix, you don't have public stoning and rapings, etc
infact christianityhelped carve western society, ....now go look at how the middle east is still like today, ....and what is being brought over -ahem,example in this video- its completely conflicting


You might want to read up on the history of Lebanon as well. -.-

As for "Christian rule" there is little difference. "Christian rule" would have you covering yourself, shutting the fuck up in church, being a slave to your husband, getting stoned in public, selling off your daughter for being raped and sleeping outside from the rest of the family whenever you were on your period.

Christianity and Islam are both Abrahamic religions. They are both old school when you get down to the finer points. Neither one comes out smelling like roses.
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/4/17

redokami wrote:


kevz_210 wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


Dark_Alma wrote:


People are easy to manipulate. Religion can manipulate people. I had a very dear friend of mine. We knew eachother for 3 years. He became a Christian after his gf converted him. He changed completely. He was no longer the person I knew. We stopped talking.

People are assholes, yes. Religion can make people assholes too. After all, religion can alter the way people think. Once again, look at the gays. Why are they hated so? They don't harm others, they wont influence you either. You should just be neutral to it. Religion says it is wrong though. After 200 generations of being told this by your parents, their parents parents... You begin to think it is true.

RELIGION CAN AND WILL CHANGE THE WAY PEOPLE THINK AND LIVE. I have seen it enough.


That is kind of the point of religion and atheism. However societies have developed quite differently under one religion vs another religion so you get to see a sort of natural evolution of one compared to another.

The problem is that some religions take stuff too far and it just becomes violence:

Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" - An account that is borrowed from the Biblical story of Sodom. Muslim scholars through the centuries have interpreted the "rain of stones" on the town as meaning that homosexuals should be stoned, since no other reason is given for the people's destruction.

Quran (4:16) - "If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone"


To be fair the old testament has its wacko verses as well:

Deuteronomy 17:
2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

It obviously doesn't mean that Christians have to follow this, especially since in other passages murder is banned. Moral of the story radical interpretation of any of these religions is the problem, not the entirety of adherents of that faith.


and here you have the difference, under Christian "rule"per say men and women can mix, you don't have public stoning and rapings, etc
infact christianityhelped carve western society, ....now go look at how the middle east is still like today, ....and what is being brought over -ahem,example in this video- its completely conflicting


Christianity had its dark past too (check out an inquisition museum), all I am saying is that it went through a reformation to remove these elements and some branches of Islam are overdo to do the same thing.
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/4/17
I say this to anyone who has beef with Christianity,

do you see Christians worldwide suicide bombing in the name of god, or plowing trucks into crowds, or mass raping, or mass shooting
no no don't give meone little incident like the NA shooting, im talking about worldwide,

we don't hear time after time "Christian bomber " mass stabbing by Christian"again and again, please tell me which religion is doing this...


which religion doesn't practice to this day stonings, slavery, gender segregation and rape?
please stop bringing up the past when it isn't happening now, we don't do that shit now
islamists on the other hand are
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/7/17

redokami wrote:

I say this to anyone who has beef with Christianity,

do you see Christians worldwide suicide bombing in the name of god, or plowing trucks into crowds, or mass raping, or mass shooting


Indeed I do. Glad we got that out of the way.
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/7/17

octorockandroll wrote:


redokami wrote:

I say this to anyone who has beef with Christianity,

do you see Christians worldwide suicide bombing in the name of god, or plowing trucks into crowds, or mass raping, or mass shooting


Indeed I do. Glad we got that out of the way.


....so cologne, Brussels, pulse nightclub. the new nightclub like 2 daysago. and more....were Christian?
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/4/17

redokami wrote:

I say this to anyone who has beef with Christianity,

do you see Christians worldwide suicide bombing in the name of god, or plowing trucks into crowds, or mass raping, or mass shooting
no no don't give meone little incident like the NA shooting, im talking about worldwide,

we don't hear time after time "Christian bomber " mass stabbing by Christian"again and again, please tell me which religion is doing this...


which religion doesn't practice to this day stonings, slavery, gender segregation and rape?
please stop bringing up the past when it isn't happening now, we don't do that shit now
islamists on the other hand are


Well to be fair, there are anti-abortion clinic bombers who do such things although I agree it is quite rare in comparison.
Redokami, the argument being made is that if Christianity was able to remove such interpretations from the mainstream, then couldn't Islam do the same? Once again I would not say the problem is Islam per say, but a radical interpretation of it. Heck, even Trump agrees with that viewpoint.
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/4/17

redokami wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:


redokami wrote:

I say this to anyone who has beef with Christianity,

do you see Christians worldwide suicide bombing in the name of god, or plowing trucks into crowds, or mass raping, or mass shooting


Indeed I do. Glad we got that out of the way.


....so cologne, Brussels, pulse nightclub. the new nightclub like 2 daysago. and more....were Christian?


Please do not put words in my mouth, I never said that. There are plenty of examples of heinous acts from christians being brought up by other forum users here and if you're unwilling to listen to them then what's the point of asking the question of whether they exist or not?
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/7/17

kevz_210 wrote:
Christianity had its dark past too (check out an inquisition museum), all I am saying is that it went through a reformation to remove these elements and some branches of Islam are overdo to do the same thing.


Some branches of Christianity as well. But a lot of this has to due with culture and stability, not religion. Christianity is just as capable of being ass backwards murderous lunatics as anyone else. Its just a matter of where and how. If you put Christians in the same situation ( such as Lebanon ) you get the same result ( such as Lebanon ). If the Middle East could enjoy a few decades of uninterrupted peace and prosperity without being continually fucked with by neighbours and western powers the would not be much different than the west in terms of cultural stability.

Conversely, if Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma had been at war for the past 100 years with Mexico randomly invading you can bet you'd see some fucked up shit being done in the name of Jesus still.

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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/7/17

kevz_210 wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


Dark_Alma wrote:


People are easy to manipulate. Religion can manipulate people. I had a very dear friend of mine. We knew eachother for 3 years. He became a Christian after his gf converted him. He changed completely. He was no longer the person I knew. We stopped talking.

People are assholes, yes. Religion can make people assholes too. After all, religion can alter the way people think. Once again, look at the gays. Why are they hated so? They don't harm others, they wont influence you either. You should just be neutral to it. Religion says it is wrong though. After 200 generations of being told this by your parents, their parents parents... You begin to think it is true.

RELIGION CAN AND WILL CHANGE THE WAY PEOPLE THINK AND LIVE. I have seen it enough.


That is kind of the point of religion and atheism. However societies have developed quite differently under one religion vs another religion so you get to see a sort of natural evolution of one compared to another.

The problem is that some religions take stuff too far and it just becomes violence:

Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" - An account that is borrowed from the Biblical story of Sodom. Muslim scholars through the centuries have interpreted the "rain of stones" on the town as meaning that homosexuals should be stoned, since no other reason is given for the people's destruction.

Quran (4:16) - "If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone"


To be fair the old testament has its wacko verses as well:

Deuteronomy 17:
2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

It obviously doesn't mean that Christians have to follow this, especially since in other passages murder is banned. Moral of the story radical interpretation of any of these religions is the problem, not the entirety of adherents of that faith.


Christians focus on the teaching of Jesus which literally tell people not to do this. Christians are NOT doing that and that is the point. Muslims ARE doing that and in mass. I care about what people are doing not what theoretically they could be doing or theoretically could not be doing.
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/4/17

kevz_210 wrote:


redokami wrote:

I say this to anyone who has beef with Christianity,

do you see Christians worldwide suicide bombing in the name of god, or plowing trucks into crowds, or mass raping, or mass shooting
no no don't give meone little incident like the NA shooting, im talking about worldwide,

we don't hear time after time "Christian bomber " mass stabbing by Christian"again and again, please tell me which religion is doing this...


which religion doesn't practice to this day stonings, slavery, gender segregation and rape?
please stop bringing up the past when it isn't happening now, we don't do that shit now
islamists on the other hand are


Well to be fair, there are anti-abortion clinic bombers who do such things although I agree it is quite rare in comparison.
Redokami, the argument being made is that if Christianity was able to remove such interpretations from the mainstream, then couldn't Islam do the same? Once again I would not say the problem is Islam per say, but a radical interpretation of it. Heck, even Trump agrees with that viewpoint.


sure, itcan be done, but 99.99 percent chance unlikely, first we need to stop babying them and actually let people argue against the ideology, because it isn't argued against you get whole communities who are allowed to do shit like in the video, and anyone who says it isn't right is immediantly labeled as "Racist" and"islamophobic"

clearly as we have seen this past year is that peoples voices are being shut down because "YOU ARE RACIST"
when something happens, it is voodoo to say "it was Islamic" or "a muslim did it" before the media "confirms" it. and at that, its still "not all muslims" which turns into nothing being done at all,just like how we see our cops becoming afraid to act, because of being the "next viral video" so too are we seeing people becoming ever more silent when another Islamic attack happens, or ideology being forced upon those like in france

yes christanity has had its bad past, but islam is still living it
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/4/17

Rujikin wrote:


kevz_210 wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


Dark_Alma wrote:


People are easy to manipulate. Religion can manipulate people. I had a very dear friend of mine. We knew eachother for 3 years. He became a Christian after his gf converted him. He changed completely. He was no longer the person I knew. We stopped talking.

People are assholes, yes. Religion can make people assholes too. After all, religion can alter the way people think. Once again, look at the gays. Why are they hated so? They don't harm others, they wont influence you either. You should just be neutral to it. Religion says it is wrong though. After 200 generations of being told this by your parents, their parents parents... You begin to think it is true.

RELIGION CAN AND WILL CHANGE THE WAY PEOPLE THINK AND LIVE. I have seen it enough.


That is kind of the point of religion and atheism. However societies have developed quite differently under one religion vs another religion so you get to see a sort of natural evolution of one compared to another.

The problem is that some religions take stuff too far and it just becomes violence:

Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" - An account that is borrowed from the Biblical story of Sodom. Muslim scholars through the centuries have interpreted the "rain of stones" on the town as meaning that homosexuals should be stoned, since no other reason is given for the people's destruction.

Quran (4:16) - "If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone"


To be fair the old testament has its wacko verses as well:

Deuteronomy 17:
2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

It obviously doesn't mean that Christians have to follow this, especially since in other passages murder is banned. Moral of the story radical interpretation of any of these religions is the problem, not the entirety of adherents of that faith.


Christians focus on the teaching of Jesus which literally tell people not to do this. Christians are NOT doing that and that is the point. Muslims ARE doing that and in mass. I care about what people are doing not what theoretically they could be doing or theoretically could not be doing.


I think I said the exact same thing multiple times in previous posts. We are in agreement in that regard, I am not going to disagree with facts, but see what I wrote above for the exact argument I was trying to make. (Islam itself vs radical religious interpretations in general)

redokami wrote:


yes christanity has had its bad past, but islam is still living it



In agreement with you on that, once again not the argument I am making.
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/7/17

kevz_210 wrote:
the argument being made is that if Christianity was able to remove such interpretations from the mainstream, then couldn't Islam do the same? Once again I would not say the problem is Islam per say, but a radical interpretation of it. Heck, even Trump agrees with that viewpoint.


I think I a better question is: Hasn't Islam done the same? The largest Muslim countries are not in the Middle East and don't have its perpetual warfare problems. The Middle East only accounts for about a fourth of the Muslims in the world tops and obviously not every Muslim in the Middle East is a terrorist or fundie lunatic.

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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/7/17

Rujikin wrote:
Christians focus on the teaching of Jesus which literally tell people not to do this. Christians are NOT doing that and that is the point. Muslims ARE doing that and in mass. I care about what people are doing not what theoretically they could be doing or theoretically could not be doing.



redokami wrote:
yes christanity has had its bad past, but islam is still living it


As has already been pointed out. Look at Africa or even just Lebanon. You're still living it too its just we in the west like to think our shit doesn't stink.

This isn't a matter of religion, its a matter of culture. Everyone's magic book has some truly horrible shit in it somewhere. But the more developed and stable a culture is the less likely people are going to read said horrible shit and go enact it on their neighbours. The progress and confines of western society are what keep the nutjobs trying to teach creationism in schools or control women's bodies from using force to get their way. They still try to do what they believe but they are largely restricted by the structure of society around them.

But take away that structure for a generation or two and you'll be hiding your condoms from the pro-life militia and crucifying Jesus ( Santos ) for Jesus ( Christ ).
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