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Post Reply Are there people out there who believe religion is linked to mental illnesses?
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Posted 1/3/17

octorockandroll wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


deli8079 wrote:

Of course there are. There are people that believe that vaccines can give you a GENETIC disease and people that believe the earth is still flat. People will believe some of the craziest things before challenging their own beliefs.


Who really believes that the world is flat? I see trolls trolling suckers with it all of the time and these actually mentally ill people that believe in it but I have yet to meet in real life or online someone that actually believes in it.

Heck I've even trolled people with it because they were dumb enough to believe I was serious.

Vaccines you have to balance risk vs reward because they do contain neurotoxins: http://www.naturalhealth365.com/toxic_aluminum.html/ . Some even have a form of concentrated mercury in them. The only vaccines I get are for SERIOUS diseases not the yearly flu nonsense.


Incorrect.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/toxic-myths-about-vaccines/


What was incorrect? Vaccines do indeed include mercury and aluminum in them, both of which are neurotoxins. Or are you trying to say they have developed a new chemical to replace them?

Thimerosal
http://www.putchildrenfirst.org/media/1.13.pdf

Thimerosal contains 49.6% w/w organically-bound mercury.

Primary Physical and Health Hazards:
Skin Permeable. Toxic. Mutagen. Irritant (eyes). Allergen. Nervous System and Reproductive Effects.

Caution Statement:
Thimerosal may enter the body through the skin, is toxic, alters genetic material, may be irritating to the eyes, and causes allergic reactions. Effects of exposure may include numbness of extremities, fetal changes, decreased offspring survival, and lung tissue changes.

Effects of Overexposure:
Topical allergic dermatitis has been reported. Thimerosal contains mercury. Mercury poisoning may occur and topical hypersensitivity reactions may be seen. Early signs of mercury poisoning in adults are nervous system effects, including narrowing of the visual field and numbness in the extremities. Exposure to mercury in utero and in children may cause mild to severe mental retardation and mild to severe motor coordination impairment. Based on animal data, may be irritating to the eyes.
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/4/17

Rujikin wrote:

What was incorrect? Vaccines do indeed include mercury and aluminum in them, both of which are neurotoxins. Or are you trying to say they have developed a new chemical to replace them?

Thimerosal
http://www.putchildrenfirst.org/media/1.13.pdf

Thimerosal contains 49.6% w/w organically-bound mercury.

Primary Physical and Health Hazards:
Skin Permeable. Toxic. Mutagen. Irritant (eyes). Allergen. Nervous System and Reproductive Effects.

Caution Statement:
Thimerosal may enter the body through the skin, is toxic, alters genetic material, may be irritating to the eyes, and causes allergic reactions. Effects of exposure may include numbness of extremities, fetal changes, decreased offspring survival, and lung tissue changes.

Effects of Overexposure:
Topical allergic dermatitis has been reported. Thimerosal contains mercury. Mercury poisoning may occur and topical hypersensitivity reactions may be seen. Early signs of mercury poisoning in adults are nervous system effects, including narrowing of the visual field and numbness in the extremities. Exposure to mercury in utero and in children may cause mild to severe mental retardation and mild to severe motor coordination impairment. Based on animal data, may be irritating to the eyes.


How about actually reading the link?
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Posted 1/3/17
I wouldn't say mental illness more like accepted ignorance, the truth of the world,of life, isn't very nice and turning a blind eye to it, believing it to be more than it is, believing in a higher power to help find a reason for being, believing he watches over you to help make you feel special and not just a cog in the machine destined to be replaced is just more preferable to those people, The cold hard reality of life is we're born, we reproduce and we die, unless you achieved something truly great or horrible your name will be forgotten along with your actions, the world will move ever on repeating the cycle until eventually the sun dies and takes it all away. I don't blame them for trying to avoid the grim reality, ignorance is bliss but some of us just have to have the courage to accept there is no deep meaning to life, enjoy what time you have and fade into background of time.
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/3/17

Potentsaliva wrote:

I think you've made a thread similar if not the same to this before...I think


That was the Chinese girl, wasn't it?

Anyway, if we're forced to do all the supplemental work that Q's therapist should be doing, shouldn't we get some kind of commission, or Medicare kickback, or something?
Maybe we can declare ourselves as a non-profit agency, with Q as a client, and get a tax break...Oh, wait, we're not getting anything for it anyway.
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/4/17
This question reeks of scientism; why even ask it otherwise? I don't think it's well-defined enough to be asked: Is religion confined to belief in some kind of supernatural power or entity, or does it include beliefs about things human knowledge can't ascertain, like morality, why the universe exists, and such? Unless the paper came out and I missed it, science can't answer our questions of value, and the answers to such questions are in the exact same category as the supernatural.

To be blunt about it, atheism is also a system of unproven and disputable claims that is used to justify certain values. We can make rationalizations for these claims (though the rationalizations themselves depend on what we value), but neither science nor some other field of knowledge rubber-stamps them as incontrovertible. Further, one can start with atheism and reason towards different moralities - highlighting the subjectivity and ambiguity inherent to it.

A better question would be whether people with deeply-held beliefs about morality, meaning, or politics tend to have mental disorders. This would then have to be contrasted with the people who might hold such beliefs but don't care about them all that much - except that encompasses basically everybody, making the question meaningless.


Dark_Alma wrote:

Religion is a useful tool to guide the sheep. The sheep that cant form their own sense of right. Also, one of my favorite quotes by Lovecraft...

"If religion were true, its followers would not try to bludgeon their young into an artificial conformity; but would merely insist on their unbending quest for truth, irrespective of artificial backgrounds or practical consequences."

I am derailing though. Is religion a sign of metal illness? I don't think so. Religion is a crutch for people who don't understand something or are scared of something.

Christians are scared of death. Hense heaven and hell.
What is lightning formed from? Zeus of course!
Why does the sun and moon set? Hati and Sköll of course!
Why do people die? *every generic god made us this way.


Hmm - did you derive your own morality?
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/3/17

Rujikin wrote:

.


I just want to point out that my parents also wave around this same myth that was elicited by a single heinously debunked and flawed study that has never been replicated. Yet, unsurprisingly, there has been astronomical amounts of studies eluding to the uncomfortable fact that vaccines do not cause autism in any significant manner. That doesn't stop brainless social media from spreading it of course--or completely obscure sites with products and advertisements for 'natural cures' reaping off the delusional public paranoia.

My parents didn't have their children vaccinated because of paranoia related to this. You know what I'm diagnosed with? Autism Spectrum Disorder.

Ah, sweet irony.

Now, I'm not saying vaccines are entirely harmless and people should pump themselves full of them--but the risks are exaggerated to the nth degree by your sources. I recommend sources like science research journals and not 3rd party websites attempting to sell you bullshit and some 'magic healing leaf extract juice with added magnesium'.

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Posted 1/3/17

auroraloose wrote:

This question reeks of scientism; why even ask it otherwise? I don't think it's well-defined enough to be asked: Is religion confined to belief in some kind of supernatural power or entity, or does it include beliefs about things human knowledge can't ascertain, like morality, why the universe exists, and such? Unless the paper came out and I missed it, science can't answer our questions of value, and the answers to such questions are in the exact same category as the supernatural.

To be blunt about it, atheism is also a system of unproven and disputable claims that is used to justify certain values. We can make rationalizations for these claims (though the rationalizations themselves depend on what we value), but neither science nor some other field of knowledge rubber-stamps them as incontrovertible. Further, one can start with atheism and reason towards different moralities - highlighting the subjectivity and ambiguity inherent to it.

A better question would be whether people with deeply-held beliefs about morality, meaning, or politics tend to have mental disorders. This would then have to be contrasted with the people who might hold such beliefs but don't care about them all that much - except that encompasses basically everybody, making the question meaningless.


Dark_Alma wrote:

Religion is a useful tool to guide the sheep. The sheep that cant form their own sense of right. Also, one of my favorite quotes by Lovecraft...

"If religion were true, its followers would not try to bludgeon their young into an artificial conformity; but would merely insist on their unbending quest for truth, irrespective of artificial backgrounds or practical consequences."

I am derailing though. Is religion a sign of metal illness? I don't think so. Religion is a crutch for people who don't understand something or are scared of something.

Christians are scared of death. Hense heaven and hell.
What is lightning formed from? Zeus of course!
Why does the sun and moon set? Hati and Sköll of course!
Why do people die? *every generic god made us this way.


Hmm - did you derive your own morality?


For the most part. I was never Christian persay. I treated god like a Santa when I was a kid. Wishing for a Monster Truck toy and all. I never really took him seriously.

Now to the personal stuff. I was bullied, horribly. I didn't like it... And I never took it out on anyone. If I was miserable, why make others miserable too? It just branched from there. Sure my parents told me to "not kill, lie, etc." Do serial killers listen to their parents in that regard? I dare say no. I just figured "Why take what makes me miserable and do it to others?" I still don't understand it. Are people really that petty?

So yes, for the most part, I did derive my morality myself. Just as humans have done when they derived their thousands of gods, from the time of just being a cave man. Morals evolve, grow and change over time. I developed my own. My own morals are also in some cases against the Bibles.

Take the Seven Deadly Sins. I actually like a few of them. Pride mainly. I also don't mind gluttony nor greed to a degree. Greed makes you want to "grow" your estate. Gluttony is fun and as long as you don't go way too far overboard hurts no one. Pride... Heh. Just look at the USA. Pride out the ass.

The only real morals that I keep in line with the Bible is respecting my parents (not that the bible told me, but they were good to me, hence command my respect). Not to kill. No duh. I wouldnt want to be killed, why would I do it (not that death scares me. I welcome it like an old friend when he grabs my hand). Last is not to lie. I still lie on occasion. Such white lies like "Yea, I met Santa once and he said you were a good girl" or "The dress does not make you look fat (you are fat though... not the dresses fault!)."

TL;DR. I grew my own morals from deriving what I would like to happen to me and did it to others.
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/3/17
Meh, no worse than the scientologists who believe "I am a god if I can pay up to the next level" or atheists who are atheists only because they have mommy and daddy issues with their parents because their parents were christian, Jewish, Muslim, act.... Dig deep enough and you can always find some snake oil salesman who will tell you what you want to hear to separate you from your money. I believe in live and let live but, if you hold a beleif/ anti belief system for the sole purpose of opposing another belief/anti belief system..... That might indicate a serious anti social sociopathic mental issue. For this I strongly reccomend you seek psychiatric help before you cause harm to yourself or others.
Posted 1/3/17
No but religion is a pretty stupid concept to believe in
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Posted 1/3/17
Short answer: No.

Long answer: It is illogical to presume any prerequisite mental conditions for absolutely any beliefs for something which cannot be tested. Science is, at its core, the ability to conduct experiments and test hypotheses in order to determine a conclusion. Therefore, since we cannot test the existence of a deity, deity-like entities, or afterlives, we cannot come to any definite conclusions (positive or negative) about religion. As someone earlier in this thread brought up though, religion is not constrained to religions with deities, as many are also general spiritual notions ideas and notions, and even completely lacking in gods and afterlife. So, let's not be close-minded and not take an Abrahemic approach by presuming a religion strictly has to be worship of something. Continuing with that line of thought, to presume that mental illness is a prerequisite for possessing a religion is simply close-minded, as for most of history most people have had a religion, and as previously stated, holding absolutely any beliefs (including the lack thereof) is unscientific at its core. Every day Greeks worshiped the Dread Son of Cronus or his various compatriots in either Olympus or the Kingdom of Hades. People all the way from Iberia to India told stories of and worshiped Heracles. Many every day ancient Egyptians thought of their Pharaoh as simply a God, and many Jainists sought out the method by which they could be most neutral so that they could simply cease to exist. Now, if we were to shift our goal post and ask a different question, such as "Do majority of people both today and throughout history have mental illness, even if undiagnosed?" then I think we would have a question which could better be tested for a more scientific and definitive answer. However, as it stands, the current question is if over 6 billion people today and even more throughout history have a mental illness for choosing their flavor of unscientific and illogical belief over another one. In other words, 84% of the current world population, according to Pew Research, would have to meet the criteria of having a mental illness in order to fulfill a true value to your question, with the only differentiation between them and the other 16% being that they hold a different completely unverifiable belief. Now, according the World Health Organization, there are currently 450 million people who are suffering from a mental illness. Additionally, they estimate that 1 in 4 people suffer from a mental illness at some point in their lives, meaning that most mental illnesses are temporary.

So, with these numbers, 1.8 billion people in the world suffer a mental illness at some point in there lives with estimated currently 450 million people with mental illness. There are currently over 6 billion people in the world who are non-secular, non-agnostic and identify as having a religion. And that's including atheist religions, which there are multiple of. Therefore, mental illness cannot be required to believe in a religion, and redefining mental illness to include religion is illogical because any such definitions would be based on subjective, unverifiable, and unscientific suppositions and assumptions.
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Posted 1/3/17 , edited 1/4/17

Glorianos wrote:

I would believe that religious people in general aren't as smart as atheists. But I would not be so disrespectful as to say they have mental illnesses, regardless of how much I despise religion.


...and this belief is backed by...?


IllIllIIlIllIlIllIlIlIlI wrote:

No but religion is a pretty stupid concept to believe in


...which was why Jesus spoke out against it (the idea of buying God's favor with religious practice... which no one could because grace is given not earned), consequently some very religious people at the time called pharisees got really angry and had him tried and then crucified.
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Posted 1/4/17
No on the most basic level. But religion taken as historical fact despite empirical evidence to the contrary suggests some sort of mental deficiency.
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Posted 1/4/17

sabrinapaulinor wrote:

isnt that statement a little exaggerated? would that mean 84% of earths population has a mental illness? I dont think so.


Wouldn't that make atheism the real mental illness?
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Posted 1/4/17
Absolutely. Believing in something that doesn't exist is called being delusional, which is definitely a form of mental illness. Just take the Jerusalem syndrome for example. What about that doesn't sound insane? The Messianic Complex is the best example. though. Every mental institution has a wing just for people with the Messianic Complex.
Posted 1/4/17 , edited 1/4/17

nanikore2 wrote:


Glorianos wrote:

I would believe that religious people in general aren't as smart as atheists. But I would not be so disrespectful as to say they have mental illnesses, regardless of how much I despise religion.


...and this belief is backed by...?


IllIllIIlIllIlIllIlIlIlI wrote:

No but religion is a pretty stupid concept to believe in


...which was why Jesus spoke out against it (the idea of buying God's favor with religious practice... which no one could because grace is given not earned), consequently some very religious people at the time called pharisees got really angry and had him tried and then crucified.

Ironic that they started a religion after him
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