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Post Reply Masamune-kun's Revenge Discussion
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Posted 9/14/17 , edited 9/14/17
Right basically serfdom or inherited indentured servitude. A forced plot device for this story.


I'm also questioning the idea that an entire class would be sent to remedial learning just because one person in the class failed. Seems like a huge waste of resources and personnel.

Or the fact that Aki and Masamune were failed because of illness. How about a makeup test? Or the fact that Masamune likely only failed the math test but his remedial learning also involved history lessons. Again it seems like a waste of resources to give students remedial lessons in subjects they show no deficiency in. They basically punish them for illness. Or this is a case of poorly executed Deus Ex Machina to advance the plot.

Oh yeah and the dude looks like a lady guy...his nickname is something like "designated bottom" at first I thought this was a reference to sodomy, and the saying that he was popular with a cerrtain type, meant gay guys, but I am guessing now it is a reference to guys depicted on the bottom of a yaoi drawing and the certain type is girls into yaoi.
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Posted 9/14/17 , edited 9/14/17
Neko's Arc was stupid and drawn out, and wasted time that could have been spent on Aki and Masamune's development, relationship and as persons. Neko's arc appeared to want to give Masamune a revelation, but honestly, other than saccharine "goodbye" to Neko, what did it have to do with Masamune and his situation?

Aki is also terrible. You cannot give a couple of moe traits to a complete bitch and expect me to warm up to her in the absence of development, do you?

The slice of life and romantic drama is terribly disjointed because of this, when we have two horrible people being horrible people, and we are suppose to think this is cute?

What the author doesn't understand here is that, in general, romantic comedies work best if the comedy compliments the romance. Essentially, what I am suggesting here is if comedy is synonymous with a progressing, mutable relationship. Hence why this feels like a sudden shift. Aki and Masamune hardly grow as people, and especially in relation to each other. Their romantic show of feelings are forced, as are the comedy depicting them on more "amiable" terms. They are mostly the same, terrible people they started off as; thus, the comedy does not feel reflective of any growth. It simply is another way to force feed the romantic angle without the serious progression to support it.

The dramatic parts depend on them being at their most angst, and for the author, at their most base characters, and this intentional stagnation is horribly frustrating to a simple premise.
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Posted 9/16/17 , edited 9/16/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Neko's Arc was stupid and drawn out, and wasted time that could have been spent on Aki and Masamune's development, relationship and as persons. Neko's arc appeared to want to give Masamune a revelation, but honestly, other than saccharine "goodbye" to Neko, what did it have to do with Masamune and his situation?

Aki is also terrible. You cannot give a couple of moe traits to a complete bitch and expect me to warm up to her in the absence of development, do you?


I just finished the Neko epsodes last night and came to the same conclusion. She wss a plot device meant to make him question his desire for revenge on Aki.

It would have been fine with me if he just decided he was more interested in his first real two-way relationship instead of getting revenge, but the twist at the end of her telling him that her attachment to him was a lie and that if she failed to win him with lies, then he would fail to win Aki with lies, was just horrible writing IMO. Then for her to say "well we'll probably never see each other again..so long" arrrg it's the definition of a plot device. Then to go even further and reveal that she really did meet him as a kid...more stupidity. Why all the lies about how she knew him instead of just using the truth? Even so, I feel sorry for her and her condition, and she seemed like a sweet girl, but trying to make someone fall in love with you, just to tell them a few months later..oh yeah I need to have major surgery and I may not survive, that's pretty darn selfish.

The show is trying to make Aki's attitude and hatred of men seem like a byproduct of Masamune abandoning her when they were children, but all the flashbacks make her seem like she was a horrible person before that. She insulted Masamune, she rejected his presents, she sicked dogs on him. How was she any better than the bullies she supposedly saved him from? Why the heck did he even hang around with her? Heck if I were Yoshino, I would have told my mother that as soon as I was able I would be done with the Adagaki family and that I would be done with her if she didn't join the 21st century and realize that she needs to abandon the Adagaki family and find new employers.
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Posted 9/16/17

HOOfan_1 wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Neko's Arc was stupid and drawn out, and wasted time that could have been spent on Aki and Masamune's development, relationship and as persons. Neko's arc appeared to want to give Masamune a revelation, but honestly, other than saccharine "goodbye" to Neko, what did it have to do with Masamune and his situation?

Aki is also terrible. You cannot give a couple of moe traits to a complete bitch and expect me to warm up to her in the absence of development, do you?


I just finished the Neko epsodes last night and came to the same conclusion. She wss a plot device meant to make him question his desire for revenge on Aki.

It would have been fine with me if he just decided he was more interested in his first real two way relationship instead of getting revenge, but the twist at the end of her telling him that her attachment to him was a lie and that if she failed to win him with lies, then he would fail to win Aki with lies, was just horrible writing IMO. Then for her to say "well we'll probably nevrr see each other again..so long" arrrg it's the dfenition of a plot device. Then to go even further and reveal that she really did meet him as a kid...more stupidity. Why all the lies about how she knes him instead of just using the truth? Even so, I feel sorry for her and her condition, and she seemed like a sweet girl, but trying to make someone fall in love with you, just to tell them a few months later..oh yeah I need to have major surgery and I mauly not survive, that's pretty darn selfish.

The show is trying to make Aki's attitude and hatred of men into being a byproduct of Masamune abandoning her when they were children, but all the flashbacks make her seem like she was a horrible person before that. She insulted Masamune, she rejected his presents, she sicked dogs on him. How was she any better than the bullies she supposedly saved him from? Why the heck did he even hang around with her? Heck if I were Yoshino, I would have told my mother that as soon as I was able I would be done with the Adigaki family and that I would be done with her if she didn't join the 21st century and realize that she needs to abandon the Adagaki family and find new employers.


I hated the hypocrisy of Masamune rejecting Neko on the basis of a false love and dishonesty, when he is courting Aki under false pretenses, and I additionally noted this did this make Neko's affection for him necessarily false either, if I remember correctly. Even then, as a threat to his revenge plan, I have to question why Masamune did nothing with Neko being a complete wrench in the works. He made no plans, no real confrontations, till it was far too drawn out to 4 episodes worth, so I blame him and his stupidity for these turns of events.

He could have ended this at any time, and could have rejected Neko on the basis of "You seem like a psycho bitch", with that bedroom scene being just creepy.

Conclusion wise, Masamune did not come out a better person in relation to his desire for vengeance, and it is a major waste of time that could have been spent painting Aki as a misunderstood or reasonably flawed being.

AND DESPITE THAT...

Aki may have been "less" horrible back then, but she is even more horrible now, to the point of being complete misandry. Some anime females were less hateful of men and just fearful, but Aki is nothing but hateful towards men. Relationship wise, this seems like it would not work out as it does now.
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Posted 9/16/17
You guys realize the manga is still ongoing right?
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Posted 9/16/17 , edited 9/16/17

Evilshadowx wrote:

You guys realize the manga is still ongoing right?


Yes, what is the point?

Who is going to win is quite obvious, given trends, and plot reveal by Yoshiko. (Which is terrible writing)

I hope I do not offend you. I may have harsh earlier or here.
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Posted 9/16/17
Aki seems condescending and hateful to almost everyone. Look at the way she treats Yoshino. She's just a horrible stuck up person.

She deserves what she gets if Masamilune breaks her heart.

At the same time Masamune needs to grow up. You got your feelings hurt as a kid. Big whup. Now you have multiple nice girls who like you. Move on with your life dude and leave Aki to wallow in her lonliness and self-pity.

As Powers Boothe said in Red Dawn "all that hate is going to burn you up kid"

How can he call his sweet and caring mother a loli hag?
xxJing 
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Posted 9/16/17
Reading the manga, I did enjoy the series, I suppose I may have been seeing its potential rather than its execution. I will say though, it is FULL of plot holes.

Aki has nearly zero character development.

Masamune was a good idea, but poorly executed.

Neko's MO makes no sense.

Kanetsugu doing what Kanetsugu does makes no sense at all. Honestly, it would have been better if it was all just a coincidence, but it's intentional. You see a coincidence wouldn't create a plot hole, it would be kind of shitty writing, but it wouldn't create a plot hole.
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Posted 9/16/17 , edited 9/16/17

xxJing wrote:

Reading the manga, I did enjoy the series, I suppose I may have been seeing its potential rather than its execution. I will say though, it is FULL of plot holes.

Aki has nearly zero character development.

Masamune was a good idea, but poorly executed.

Neko's MO makes no sense.

Kanetsugu doing what Kanetsugu does makes no sense at all. Honestly, it would have been better if it was all just a coincidence, but it's intentional. You see a coincidence wouldn't create a plot hole, it would be kind of shitty writing, but it wouldn't create a plot hole.


I would believe Neko might have been better off being honest, or at the very least not dishonest awith her methods, honestly. She presents a nice idea. Love isn't always at first site, but a small burgeoning seed that require mutual nurturing to blossom, to tap into my more poetic side.

I question her need to lie in the first place, as well as considering Masamune's reaction. She could have been honest, and I would have found that acceptable, and do not see why the other members of the cast would not. It is also incredibly dumb to lie to a person about themselves, seeing as they can definitely disprove it in most circumstances.
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Posted 9/16/17
The only reason I can think of for the lie when she told the story to the group, is she didn't want everyone to know of Masamune's former weight problems, but she had ample alone time with him to tell the truth and that she also had weight problems.
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Posted 9/16/17 , edited 9/16/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


Evilshadowx wrote:

You guys realize the manga is still ongoing right?


Yes, what is the point?

Who is going to win is quite obvious, given trends, and plot reveal by Yoshiko. (Which is terrible writing)

I hope I do not offend you. I may have harsh earlier or here.


Point being, a lot of the manga is different than the direction and production the anime was given and the way the story was made going forward. Considering they had to go a certain way to give the anime a way to end off on if it were to continue or not. They skipped a lot around and left a bit out.

What I'm basically saying it, they left a lot of stuff out, and if you want more answers, read the manga.
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Posted 9/16/17 , edited 9/16/17

Evilshadowx wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


Evilshadowx wrote:

You guys realize the manga is still ongoing right?


Yes, what is the point?

Who is going to win is quite obvious, given trends, and plot reveal by Yoshiko. (Which is terrible writing)

I hope I do not offend you. I may have harsh earlier or here.


Point being, a lot of the manga is different than the direction and production the anime was given and the way the story was made going forward. Considering they had to go a certain way to give the anime a way to end off on if it were to continue or not. They skipped a lot around and left a bit out.

What I'm basically saying it, they left a lot of stuff out, and if you want more answers, read the manga.


I am criticizing the anime, the adaptation. If the adaptation left key things out, then it is a bad adaptation, and most certainly a flaw. Having a great source material changes none of that, especially considering how bad Blame's adaptation was, alongside Pupa, supposedly. Truth be told, I perhaps want to hate more than I care about the story.

Also, Masamune's Loli Mother is the most cringeworthy fucking thing I have seen in a long time. I was confused by their relationship, considering her incredibly childish behavior, and the odd exchange of honorifics between a parent and their child, which was more akin to an older brother and (much) younger sister. Fucking seriously?
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Posted 9/16/17 , edited 9/16/17

Evilshadowx wrote:

Point being, a lot of the manga is different than the direction and production the anime was given and the way the story was made going forward. Considering they had to go a certain way to give the anime a way to end off on if it were to continue or not. They skipped a lot around and left a bit out.

What I'm basically saying it, they left a lot of stuff out, and if you want more answers, read the manga.


The manga is the manga, the anime is the anime.

"If you have to resort to another medium, you have abandoned the battlefield."

MadeDragon's Law. Make it famous
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Posted 9/16/17

MadeDragon wrote:


Evilshadowx wrote:

Point being, a lot of the manga is different than the direction and production the anime was given and the way the story was made going forward. Considering they had to go a certain way to give the anime a way to end off on if it were to continue or not. They skipped a lot around and left a bit out.

What I'm basically saying it, they left a lot of stuff out, and if you want more answers, read the manga.


The manga is the manga, the anime is the anime.

"If you have to resort to another medium, you have abandoned the battlefield."

MadeDragon's Law. Make it famous :)


It's more like, read the source material before watching the adaptation, actually. Most people do that.
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Posted 9/16/17 , edited 9/16/17

Evilshadowx wrote:


MadeDragon wrote:


Evilshadowx wrote:

Point being, a lot of the manga is different than the direction and production the anime was given and the way the story was made going forward. Considering they had to go a certain way to give the anime a way to end off on if it were to continue or not. They skipped a lot around and left a bit out.

What I'm basically saying it, they left a lot of stuff out, and if you want more answers, read the manga.


The manga is the manga, the anime is the anime.

"If you have to resort to another medium, you have abandoned the battlefield."

MadeDragon's Law. Make it famous :)


It's more like, read the source material before watching the adaptation, actually. Most people do that.


Why do I have to read the source to understand an adaptation that should have clearly explained it if it were of any due importance? This still seems like a flaw of the adaptation, which we are criticizing, not the "inherent story". (Not sure how, if our only exposure in the anime, which we would be criticizing by nature.)

I do understand complaining and raging can get boring if one could figure out the answers, I suppose, but that is not the point I am making. And no, most people do not check out the source. This is more prominent if the source cannot exist as a stand alone if the changes and cuts become egregious, such as Berserk 2016, which I still greatly dislike, even having read the source material. I wanted to see things flow, have scenes animated, but no, they did not.

To sum it all up, if the source cannot exist as a standalone product because of careless adaptation, it is a bad anime.

I am here to criticize the adaptation, essentially. The source does not matter, but if I am complaining in need of answers, I could see the merit of your claim. If someone is capable of easily doing a thing, they should stop complaining and do it.
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