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Post Reply Why are alot of Americans selfish when it comes to taxes?
Posted 1/11/17
The USA also has to pay to defend various parasite nations.
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Posted 1/11/17

runec wrote:

Personally, I have been on both sides of this fence. I worked my ass off for years and have little to show for it except crippling mental health issues and physical problems. Now I'm on disability as a result. I live in Canada. I never cursed my income taxes off my paycheque or spat on anyone on unemployment insurance. Because I knew the system they supported and if anything happened that system would help me.

Which it ended up doing. I don't have to pay to see my doctor. I don't have to pay for my medications. I didn't have to pay for tests at the hospital. I didn't have to endanger my life by avoiding going to the ER, twice, because I didn't have to pay for an ER visit. And now that I'm not capable of working I don't have to worry about being homeless. I am certainly not living the high life off the taxpayer's dime but I have a roof over my head and I'm not going to starve to death.

And that is what a modern, civilized society should be. Hence I never bitched about taxes.

I can't even fathom how Americans aren't rioting in the streets over health care. The idea that your entire life could be ruined just because you were injured or came down with something and ended up saddled with thousands in medical bills? That you have to endanger your health by avoiding going to the doctor because you can't afford too? That is completely absurd.



Thank you, well said. I just can't understand why a nation that values a productive workforce so much is turning a blind eye to the garbage that is our medical system.
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Posted 1/11/17


I have a friend who wanted the government to provide everything for everyone when he was unemployed and living off his parents. He then got put in a position where he was technically self employed. After he seen the ungodly amount of taxes he was paying he started to hate paying taxes and wanted the government to tax him less and spend their money more carefully.

Paying taxes is the best red pill.
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Posted 1/11/17

runec wrote:

And that's really what it comes down too. EVERY system has an error ratio. No system is 100% accurate in politics, programs or business. But when it comes to social programs there are those that basically think if we can't have a flawlessly perfect system we should have nothing at all. They would rather fuck over 100 people than have 1 person get an undeserved "freebie".


If it were just 100:1 we wouldn't be 20 trillion in debt.

Over 60% of illegal immigrants are on some form of welfare. That is 60% of a class of people that do not pay their taxes are receiving benefits.

It's not that people who are against this stuff are Scrouge McDuck, but that the 20 trillion in national debt NEEDS to be addressed. It's completely unethical to create a lucrative social safety net in the present that the expense of the next generation who will have to pay off that debt.
Posted 1/11/17
I didn't read the topic, but the answer is because corporations and those of very large wealth use their influence to con half the country into consistently voting against their own interests.

They have people convinced that they are all temporarily embarrassed millionaires and don't need government or government money.
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/11/17

KennethKenstar wrote:

I didn't read the topic, but the answer is because corporations and those of very large wealth use their influence to con half the country into consistently voting against their own interests.

They have people convinced that they are all temporarily embarrassed millionaires and don't need government or government money.


It's more like that corporations and those of large wealth buy both sides of the political spectrum forcing the population to vote against their own best interests because they media that they own discredits and slanders everyone that might be beneficial to the people well before the general even arrives (ie Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders)

I mean let's be honest. In a Jeb Bush vs Hillary Clinton neither side is exactly the people's champion.
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/11/17
Well, because CHILDREN are selfish, basically--
At an early age, you tend to see yourself as some independent entity, with all your bills paid for, your responsibilities planned out for you by your parents and teachers, and no one else caring what trouble you get into with your own set of friends.
From infancy up through formative years, it's a psychological break from self-awareness about being part of the larger social group, that doesn't really awaken until after teen years.

And if you ask a child to make his own sacrifices for the greater good, he's not at the age when he can perceive it:
Anyone who's had to relocate for work, what's the first reaction you get from your kids?: "But I'll have to give up all MY friends! It's UNFAIR!--You're just doing this to me on PURPOSE!"

Good thing some of us are grown adults, and don't act like that.
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/11/17

SupersunZeratul wrote:
If it were just 100:1 we wouldn't be 20 trillion in debt.


Sorry, if you want specifics its 100 in 2.6 for unemployment insurance. 100 in 1 for food snaps and associated programs. Per the US Department of Labor and the US Department of Agriculture. Most active fraud in social programs occurs in the middle such as grocery stores gaming food stamps. Not on the receiving end of those who get them. Fraud is also separate from administrative error. Which is often including in the "fraud" total when it comes to political talking points.

For reference, the average business loses about 5% per year to fraud.

If we ignore the actual statistics and go straight for the 5% average and then expand it to include ALL social programs and health programs the US has including Medicaid, Social Security, etc instead of just welfare. Which is all mandatory spending in the budget mind you that's set automatically. All these programs cost around 2.235 trillion dollars in 2015. So that comes out to about 117.5 billion.

So as a percentage of the entire 2015 fiscal budget assuming the average rate of fraud ( which is higher than the given rate remember ) and generously extending that to EVERY social and health program the US has. Not just welfare. That would amount to about 3% of the total US budget.

Carrying on this generous assumption of applying 5% to all mandatory health and social spending then even more generously assuming that you could actually run a 100% perfect, flawless system with no fraud or error. If you specifically addressed, attacked and somehow managed to eliminate fraud you would be able to pay down your national debt by 0.58% last year. Not exactly turning the tide.

So, yeah no. illegal immigrants and welfare queens aren't the problem here. Nor would flawlessly eliminating the claimed problem do anything more than piss into the wind of your national debt.

Now, could you save money by reworking these systems and streamlining them for efficiency? Definitely. In fact you are most assuredly bleeding more money in these programs due to administrative waste and inefficiency than you are fraud. But simply cutting funding to them will solve nothing. Nevermind your stated goal of reducing the national debt. In fact, cutting funding would ultimately cost you more money.

Poverty is expensive to the state. It costs more to have people in poverty than it does to literally just give them houses. This is preventative care vs treating terminal stage cancer. The prostate exam is obviously cheaper than the chemotherapy. More poverty means more crime, more health care burden, less education and thus less economic growth, less money and less tax income.

As a nation you can't accept just letting people literally starve to death in your streets or bleed to death outside your hospitals. But because you can't do that, but likewise won't take steps to lift said people up from that point its going to cost you a shit load of money. You're keeping people on the social ladder at the exact point they cost you the most money. All because, again, you can't seem to bear the thought of someone, somewhere, getting something they don't "deserve".

Its one giant economic and cultural cutting off your nose to spite your face.




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Posted 1/11/17
They are selfish when it comes to taxes because they have been raised to be selfish in general. Our society punishes altruism and charity and rewards psychopathic levels of selfishness, ruthlessness, and apathy for the well being of others.
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Posted 1/11/17

Ocale wrote:

Americans don't have faith that their taxes actually get put to good use. Even though there's so many different taxes that are expensive, it seems like nothing gets done. The roads are still bad, the whole healthcare ordeal made so many families struggle because of the massive jump in price, and everyone knows how infamous American schooling is. There's also so many people that abuse government things because they're lazy. My mother is one of these people, and it disgusts me how she can live a free ride while I try to work my ass off and be a decent member of society, yet I still struggle more and end up paying for degenerates like her.

The main idea is "you take care of you, I take care of me, and then everyone is covered" as well, although with this strong social justice and "work together and love!!!" crap that's sweeping the world, this idea of actually taking care of your own hardships is becoming unpopular. I strongly agree with being independent. Ideally, I want to pay as little as possible for taxes so that it covers others in emergency or very difficult situations, such as cancer or needing an emergency operation, but I do not want to be paying for some whiny cunt's pain pills because they decide to visit the hospital every time they slip and fall in their ass. They should take care of themselves at some point.

Basically, I don't want help, and I don't want to help others that don't need it. The argument of when someone "needs" help is its own topic.


This is pretty much it...If someone does not pull their weight in society, they should not be helped.

While it may seem good to help out others anyway possible, that is not so much how the United States operates, which I am totally fine with.
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Posted 1/11/17
One word: Rednecks that's why.
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/11/17

gornotck wrote:

It has more or less been shown that government and taxes are why all those things are "unaffordable", so it should be asked why you are so free with other people's money.

We need more intra and interstate competition, not more taxes or government dickery.



you hit a point there!

it's love and hate situation with taxes

those who don't contribute but receiving benefits will praise it to no bound

those who contribute an arm and a leg while not receiving any benefit will have a deep hate for it


let's face.. the ones being spoon feed for a long time will continue to ask for things while doing little or no work even when they are all grown up.. that's just how it is

taxes and free stuff are nice (only when they don't have to pay or pay little for them.)..

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19 / M / Palm Coast, Florida
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Posted 1/11/17
I would agree with selfishness, but it's ridiculous when someone, who is perfectly able to work and chooses not to, gets to live off a hard working person's taxes that they pay.
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Posted 1/11/17
The way you worded this thread means there's no way to bridge the differences between your beliefs and American values.

Right now, the state of the union is split up. There is this huge schism in the U.S. right now where basically half of us value individualism over collectivism, and vice versa. This means that about half of America would tend to agree with you that the way things are done in America is selfish.

Being heavily affected by European ideals which is dominated by a sense of public duty, I can see why you think we're selfish. I'm sure you already heard plenty of arguments defending the American way while still holding onto your belief that we are selfish, so I don't know how much of this will get through to you.

As Americans, we're told from a young age that this country was founded on freedom, that people fought a war for independence. Our Declaration of Independence was made because of a dissatisfaction with how we were governed. Our Constitution was created with the idea that government inherently cannot be trusted. Our Founding Fathers understood that for a nation's people to be free, the powers of the government have to be limited and that it should not be able to violate the rights of its own citizens.

Everyone dies, and if you spent your whole life caring because you were told to care, doing because you were told to do, and taking things because you were told to take, you were never even alive. I'd rather claw and struggle my whole life and die knowing everything I did and everything that happened to me was due to the choices I made as a free soul, than go through life a gray robot only to die never doing anything because I truly wanted to.

Bottom line, forced charity is not charity, but rather theft. Respect your neighbor, earn your own keep, and give of your own free will.
If you care about the sick here in the U.S. so much, then go donate some money to the charity groups over here, completely free of government coercion.
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20 / M / Bundaberg, Queens...
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Posted 1/11/17

Rujikin wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Rujikin wrote:

Let's say you have a fat lazy ass that weights 500lbs, doesn't work because they are on disability due to being fat, and have constant health problems. They have at least $100,000 in health problems a year because they eat nothing but McDonalds and hot pockets.

Then you have yourself. You stay fit, eat good, healthy, and don't even need to go to the doctor.

Why should I pay for that fat lazy ass when they won't even bother taking care of themselves and they are just a drain on the tax payers. My taxes will be raised to pay for someone's lazy life style while I get shafted because I actually care about myself and work.


TTo put it simply you are rewarding bad behavior and punishing good behavior.



Yes there will be the bad apples in the bunch but you shouldn't stop something good just because of those bad apples.
That's just a poor excuse not to pay taxes to help others who are in need imo.


Most of the people "in need$ are there because of their own stupid decisions. I know many people in worse shape than these " people in need" and they get nothing but the tax man is always there waiting to cut their paycheck in half. Meanwhile I watch as some of my fat lazy friends claim welfare because of a fake mental problem and beg for food on Facebook instead of getting a job like they should.


That's quite an assumption you are making there and even if it's true it doesn't mean there isn't people who didn't put themselves into thSf situation
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