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Post Reply Why are alot of Americans selfish when it comes to taxes?
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/12/17
The problem with taxes in America is the huge amount of waste. For example, we spend so much more money per student than just about any other country, yet the dropout rate is very high. Not only that but I personally know many people who receive subsidies such as food stamps, then they go out and buy a really expensive TV or waste money on cigarettes and such. Other people receive disabilities payments when they aren't really disabled. We aren't being selfish, we just don't want our money to go to unworthy projects when there are so many other, better things to use it on.
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/12/17

kevz_210 wrote:

To be fair its more cultural than anything.

I think it has a lot to do with the "pick your own self up from the bootstraps" mentality when it comes to getting ahead and achieving the American Dream.
Right or wrong, I think a lot of it originated from a cultural that has had waves upon waves of poor immigrants who had nothing and worked hard to achieve what they have, in many cases arrived with little support system in place, and that line of thinking has been passed on to their children and so on and so forth.

There is not as much of a real group mentality when it comes to the general well being, but rather a focus on the individual. In general we are fiscally further right than our European counterparts. Well that and many of the middle class already feels like it is paying its fair share of taxes, and the idea of losing 50% of your paycheck to Uncle Sam is not something that many and myself would be happy with.

Healthcare and education issues are not just a funding issue though. We have a corporate campaign finance problem that promotes corruption, waste and giving taxpayer money to special interests (health insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, private student loan lenders, banks, etc.). Until this problem is dealt with I feel that no about of additional tax revenue is going to get us the results you are referring to. Too many bloodsucking vampires taking money out of the system into their own pockets instead of benefiting the general public.

EDIT: No culture is perfect,Europe may have better social class mobility in many countries, but individual rights can be quite a bit more restrictive. I keep reading more and more about the censorship of free speech supposedly in the name of tolerance and diversity, but as an American I accept that even controversial speech must be defended so that government silencing of opposition opinions never becomes a reality.

I suppose all I am saying is that while its perfectly fine to criticize another country's outlook on economic and social issues, saying that it is a matter of us not caring about others is a blanket oversimplification of a culture difference/philosophy that perhaps goes back as far as the founding of this nation.


Too many bloodsucking leeches. Not vampires.

Well put though. Hopefully you have reached at least a handful of people.
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/12/17
It is of my opinion that many Americans are less incensed by the act of paying taxes as much as they are by the government's flippant spending and the fact that the government continues to grant benefits to people who chronically abuse the system for housing, healthcare, nutritional, and QOL subsidies--and avoid working and paying back into the funds that they leech from--and who claim disabilities while fully capable of working and are handed amounts of money that rival the wages of someone in the lower income bracket (and still do side jobs "under the table," to boot.) Meanwhile, the DoT and DoE are underfunded, healthcare is cost prohibitive, and the cost of living goes up while earnings remain stagnant. People like to see progress for their contributions, but the multi-trillion dollar debt ceiling, that keeps being raised by Congress, paired with constant insistence on spending money that we don't have to play big brother with the rest of the world is counterintuitive to that.

While by no means (likely) accurate, this might put it into perspective: http://www.usdebtclock.org/
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/12/17
I can live with the idea of paying taxes for kids who really need aid to go to college. There are many who put up above 3.0+ gpas and get virtually no aid because their parents make too much. So they are forced to take out obscene amounts in loans. So it makes sense to support these individuals who will greatly benefit the country in the future.

On the opposite end...

Why should we have to pay for someone who refuses to go to school or work part time at a job who is healthy? Also, Obesity is not a real disability. It's a sad excuse for not wanting to do anything. I know people who could be considered "obese" and work their asses off for their family's.
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/12/17

Ryulightorb wrote:

WARNING: i know not all Americans are like this i'm stereotyping/ going off the majority of people i have met from America so don't take this as literally me saying it's true.


I know taxes cost way more then they should in America but every time i speak to an American about Healthcare or Education they see it as a privilege instead of a right....from a developed countries point of view that is very odd.

Now i was just reading a reddit thread about a guy who got his cancer treatment paid via taxes mostly and i thought good that's how it should be.

Next thing i know i see all these selfish people writing "I paid for that why should i pay for something i don't use"
The only thing i could think is how selfish are these people...in a society its the job of citizens to pay work and pay taxes to help with roads etc.

Things like Healthcare and Education are important things taxes should goto.
Yes taxes cost more but its for the greater good and helps those who are in need.

People are to selfish and arrogant from where i am looking and i honestly worry for America and the people who i know who live there.

I'm lucky to be in a country where our healthcare and education is paid for by taxes.
So what do you all think sorry i wanted to rant somewhere because seeing people be like that really annoys me we should be working together for the greater good of everyone.


I think the real question is why do you want to force people to pay for things rather than just have charities. America is one of the most generous countries in the world. You're criticizing that they want to choose to give their money away to help people rather than have it taken. At least, that's a point of view I'm offering to consider.
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/12/17

Kavalion wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:

WARNING: i know not all Americans are like this i'm stereotyping/ going off the majority of people i have met from America so don't take this as literally me saying it's true.


I know taxes cost way more then they should in America but every time i speak to an American about Healthcare or Education they see it as a privilege instead of a right....from a developed countries point of view that is very odd.

Now i was just reading a reddit thread about a guy who got his cancer treatment paid via taxes mostly and i thought good that's how it should be.

Next thing i know i see all these selfish people writing "I paid for that why should i pay for something i don't use"
The only thing i could think is how selfish are these people...in a society its the job of citizens to pay work and pay taxes to help with roads etc.

Things like Healthcare and Education are important things taxes should goto.
Yes taxes cost more but its for the greater good and helps those who are in need.

People are to selfish and arrogant from where i am looking and i honestly worry for America and the people who i know who live there.

I'm lucky to be in a country where our healthcare and education is paid for by taxes.
So what do you all think sorry i wanted to rant somewhere because seeing people be like that really annoys me we should be working together for the greater good of everyone.


I think the real question is why do you want to force people to pay for things rather than just have charities. America is one of the most generous countries in the world. You're criticizing that they want to choose to give their money away to help people rather than have it taken. At least, that's a point of view I'm offering to consider.


Because taxes are part of a functioning society and charities enough cannot bring in enough to support people in need.
I understand that view however its a neccesary cost so those with disabilities and health issues can live without being in eternal debt.

Seeing taxes as forcing people to pay is foolish imo.
you could argue why force people to pay for fixing roads and other taxed things also.
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/12/17

Kavalion wrote:

I think the real question is why do you want to force people to pay for things rather than just have charities. America is one of the most generous countries in the world. You're criticizing that they want to choose to give their money away to help people rather than have it taken. At least, that's a point of view I'm offering to consider.


Though it may not be obvious, he literally cannot conceptualize why the system he lives under wouldn't work for everyone. He's just too dedicated to the poison that's destroying the People's Democratic Republic of Australia.
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/12/17

Kavalion wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:

WARNING: i know not all Americans are like this i'm stereotyping/ going off the majority of people i have met from America so don't take this as literally me saying it's true.


I know taxes cost way more then they should in America but every time i speak to an American about Healthcare or Education they see it as a privilege instead of a right....from a developed countries point of view that is very odd.

Now i was just reading a reddit thread about a guy who got his cancer treatment paid via taxes mostly and i thought good that's how it should be.

Next thing i know i see all these selfish people writing "I paid for that why should i pay for something i don't use"
The only thing i could think is how selfish are these people...in a society its the job of citizens to pay work and pay taxes to help with roads etc.

Things like Healthcare and Education are important things taxes should goto.
Yes taxes cost more but its for the greater good and helps those who are in need.

People are to selfish and arrogant from where i am looking and i honestly worry for America and the people who i know who live there.

I'm lucky to be in a country where our healthcare and education is paid for by taxes.
So what do you all think sorry i wanted to rant somewhere because seeing people be like that really annoys me we should be working together for the greater good of everyone.


I think the real question is why do you want to force people to pay for things rather than just have charities. America is one of the most generous countries in the world. You're criticizing that they want to choose to give their money away to help people rather than have it taken. At least, that's a point of view I'm offering to consider.


Because taxes are part of a functioning society and charities enough cannot bring in enough to support people in need.
I understand that view however its a neccesary cost so those with disabilities and health issues can live without being in eternal debt.

Seeing taxes as forcing people to pay is foolish imo.
you could argue why force people to pay for fixing roads and other taxed things also.

In the end i see the point and to why someone wouldn't want to be forced to pay but you have to keep in mind if not forced to pay alot of people will suffer and i honestly think in such a situation people should be forced but that's my opinion
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/12/17

gornotck wrote:


Kavalion wrote:

I think the real question is why do you want to force people to pay for things rather than just have charities. America is one of the most generous countries in the world. You're criticizing that they want to choose to give their money away to help people rather than have it taken. At least, that's a point of view I'm offering to consider.


Though it may not be obvious, he literally cannot conceptualize why the system he lives under wouldn't work for everyone. He's just too dedicated to the poison that's destroying the People's Democratic Republic of Australia.



I can conceptualise it but it leads those who cannot afford to live or are very sick to suffer.
My country isn't being destroyed there is no poison at all.

The system wouldn't work for everyone that is true however all people should be helping eachother in a working functioning society.
you can disagree that is fine.

But don't go saying my country is being destroyed or poisoned when that is bullshit and wrong.
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/12/17

Ryulightorb wrote:
Because taxes are part of a functioning society and charities enough cannot bring in enough to support people in need.
I understand that view however its a neccesary cost so those with disabilities and health issues can live without being in eternal debt.

Seeing taxes as forcing people to pay is foolish imo.
you could argue why force people to pay for fixing roads and other taxed things also.


We absolutely could question if we should be paying for roads that are torn up by overloaded semis. A lot of people want weighing stations to protect public roads. An overweight truck to public roads is the same as an overweight person to public healthcare.

You seem a bit closed-minded to the idea, but I think it's perfectly fair to suggest that companies pay for their own roads rather than damaging public roads and costing taxpayers. Whether that means a special road tax for the companies responsible for damaging roads, or requiring that they change how they handle transport.

Forums are acting a bit clunky, apologies for any double posts.
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/12/17

Kavalion wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:
Because taxes are part of a functioning society and charities enough cannot bring in enough to support people in need.
I understand that view however its a neccesary cost so those with disabilities and health issues can live without being in eternal debt.

Seeing taxes as forcing people to pay is foolish imo.
you could argue why force people to pay for fixing roads and other taxed things also.


We absolutely could question if we should be paying for roads that are torn up by overloaded semis. A lot of people want weighing stations to protect public roads. An overweight truck to public roads is the same as an overweight person to public healthcare.

You seem a bit closed-minded to the idea, but I think it's perfectly fair to suggest that companies pay for their own roads rather than damaging public roads and costing taxpayers. Whether that means a special road tax for the companies responsible for damaging roads, or requiring that they change how they handle transport.

Forums are acting a bit clunky, apologies for any double posts.




I think that is a fair idea also im definitely not close minded to ideas im just worried in how it impacts the less unfortunate i believe in giving up peoples freedom (Taxes) if it means helping a large amount of people who can't afford to live.

What you suggested helps everyone but the corporations who do the damage in the first place which is a fine trade off.
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/12/17
Trucking already pays separate fees for the use of the roads, are restricted to roads that meet their requirements, and are randomly inspected to make sure that they're both within weight and safe to drive.

Then they do it all over again on a state by state basis.
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/12/17

Ryulightorb wrote:

WARNING: i know not all Americans are like this i'm stereotyping/ going off the majority of people i have met from America so don't take this as literally me saying it's true.


I know taxes cost way more then they should in America but every time i speak to an American about Healthcare or Education they see it as a privilege instead of a right....from a developed countries point of view that is very odd.

Now i was just reading a reddit thread about a guy who got his cancer treatment paid via taxes mostly and i thought good that's how it should be.

Next thing i know i see all these selfish people writing "I paid for that why should i pay for something i don't use"
The only thing i could think is how selfish are these people...in a society its the job of citizens to pay work and pay taxes to help with roads etc.

Things like Healthcare and Education are important things taxes should goto.
Yes taxes cost more but its for the greater good and helps those who are in need.

People are to selfish and arrogant from where i am looking and i honestly worry for America and the people who i know who live there.

I'm lucky to be in a country where our healthcare and education is paid for by taxes.
So what do you all think sorry i wanted to rant somewhere because seeing people be like that really annoys me we should be working together for the greater good of everyone.


I don't actually believe this, but one could make the argument that your line of thinking is the more selfish one. Most people don't elect to be part of a society, they're just born into it. Why, by mere accident of birth, must they be saddled with an obligation to pay taxes in order to fund roads, education, the military, or whatever else the king, the upper class, the Party, or the majority of the population decides needs funding? Isn't it actually selfish to insist they owe society work and taxes for being part of society when they never really had the option not to be a part of it? Why are they selfish for not wanting to pay for a service that they won't use but others will, but those others aren't selfish for wanting someone else to pay for a service only they have need for? Your "working together for the greater good of everyone" is the same as "forcing people to pay for things they don't need." The only difference is the words you use to describe it.

As I said, I don't actually believe your viewpoint is the more selfish one. However, I don't think your viewpoint is any more or less right, or any more or less selfish, than the viewpoint that taxes are merely forcing people to pay for services they don't use.

I do, however, believe that there is nothing particularly selfless about insisting that "everyone" should pay for government services through taxation. Volunteering at a soup kitchen is selfless. Giving blood is selfless. Setting up or donating to a charity that provides support for those in need is selfless. Making others pay for a service because that satisfies your ideal of a world where everyone supports each other isn't selfless, nor is it actually satisfying that ideal.

"We" aren't "working together for the greater good of everyone" when the government mandates that people pay a tax; instead, 51% of the people are obligating the other 49% of the people to participate in a system they never even wanted. Feel free to adjust these numbers if the vote is less 'close' in your country, but no matter how you cut it unless the vote is unanimous someone's being made to pay for services they don't want. They aren't doing it selflessly, they're doing it because they're legally required to. And when you vote for everyone to pay taxes you aren't saying "I want to support the greater good," you're saying "I want everyone to support the greater good, whether they like it or not." I don't think taxation is wrong, or that taxes are just theft, or anything like that. I don't even think it's bad to have taxes that pay for education, healthcare, or roads. But I don't think voting for taxes and services is a selfless act.

It's rather concerning to me that you view opposition to taxes and services not merely as a difference of opinion or a misguided but understandable fear of government overreach, but a sign of selfishness and arrogance. It's concerning because it seems that you don't really have any respect for the people who think that way. In spite of your talk of "the greater good" you're fine with saying "fuck them" and writing their concerns off as meaningless because it's getting in the way of something that's concerning to you.

Also, the United States of America is a developed country.


Ryulightorb wrote:

I can conceptualise it but it leads those who cannot afford to live or are very sick to suffer.
My country isn't being destroyed there is no poison at all.

The system wouldn't work for everyone that is true however all people should be helping eachother in a working functioning society.
you can disagree that is fine.

But don't go saying my country is being destroyed or poisoned when that is bullshit and wrong.


Pot calling the kettle black. Perhaps you shouldn't go saying stuff like "I'm so concerned about America and Americans because they're so selfish and arrogant" if you don't like people dissing your own country for having a government system they don't think is optimal.
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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/12/17

gghadur77 wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:

WARNING: i know not all Americans are like this i'm stereotyping/ going off the majority of people i have met from America so don't take this as literally me saying it's true.


I know taxes cost way more then they should in America but every time i speak to an American about Healthcare or Education they see it as a privilege instead of a right....from a developed countries point of view that is very odd.

Now i was just reading a reddit thread about a guy who got his cancer treatment paid via taxes mostly and i thought good that's how it should be.

Next thing i know i see all these selfish people writing "I paid for that why should i pay for something i don't use"
The only thing i could think is how selfish are these people...in a society its the job of citizens to pay work and pay taxes to help with roads etc.

Things like Healthcare and Education are important things taxes should goto.
Yes taxes cost more but its for the greater good and helps those who are in need.

People are to selfish and arrogant from where i am looking and i honestly worry for America and the people who i know who live there.

I'm lucky to be in a country where our healthcare and education is paid for by taxes.
So what do you all think sorry i wanted to rant somewhere because seeing people be like that really annoys me we should be working together for the greater good of everyone.


I don't actually believe this, but one could make the argument that your line of thinking is the more selfish one. Most people don't elect to be part of a society, they're just born into it. Why, by mere accident of birth, must they be saddled with an obligation to pay taxes in order to fund roads, education, the military, or whatever else the king, the upper class, the Party, or the majority of the population decides needs funding? Isn't it actually selfish to insist they owe society work and taxes for being part of society when they never really had the option not to be a part of it? Why are they selfish for not wanting to pay for a service that they won't use but others will, but those others aren't selfish for wanting someone else to pay for a service only they have need for? Your "working together for the greater good of everyone" is the same as "forcing people to pay for things they don't need." The only difference is the words you use to describe it.

As I said, I don't actually believe your viewpoint is the more selfish one. However, I don't think your viewpoint is any more or less right, or any more or less selfish, than the viewpoint that taxes are merely forcing people to pay for services they don't use.

I do, however, believe that there is nothing particularly selfless about insisting that "everyone" should pay for government services through taxation. Volunteering at a soup kitchen is selfless. Giving blood is selfless. Setting up or donating to a charity that provides support for those in need is selfless. Making others pay for a service because that satisfies your ideal of a world where everyone supports each other isn't selfless, nor is it actually satisfying that ideal.

"We" aren't "working together for the greater good of everyone" when the government mandates that people pay a tax; instead, 51% of the people are obligating the other 49% of the people to participate in a system they never even wanted. Feel free to adjust these numbers if the vote is less 'close' in your country, but no matter how you cut it unless the vote is unanimous someone's being made to pay for services they don't want. They aren't doing it selflessly, they're doing it because they're legally required to. And when you vote for everyone to pay taxes you aren't saying "I want to support the greater good," you're saying "I want everyone to support the greater good, whether they like it or not." I don't think taxation is wrong, or that taxes are just theft, or anything like that. I don't even think it's bad to have taxes that pay for education, healthcare, or roads. But I don't think voting for taxes and services is a selfless act.

It's rather concerning to me that you view opposition to taxes and services not merely as a difference of opinion or a misguided but understandable fear of government overreach, but a sign of selfishness and arrogance. It's concerning because it seems that you don't really have any respect for the people who think that way. In spite of your talk of "the greater good" you're fine with saying "fuck them" and writing their concerns off as meaningless because it's getting in the way of something that's concerning to you.

Also, the United States of America is a developed country.


Ryulightorb wrote:

I can conceptualise it but it leads those who cannot afford to live or are very sick to suffer.
My country isn't being destroyed there is no poison at all.

The system wouldn't work for everyone that is true however all people should be helping eachother in a working functioning society.
you can disagree that is fine.

But don't go saying my country is being destroyed or poisoned when that is bullshit and wrong.


Pot calling the kettle black. Perhaps you shouldn't go saying stuff like "I'm so concerned about America and Americans because they're so selfish and arrogant" if you don't like people dissing your own country for having a government system they don't think is optimal.



Fair call pot calling the kettle black is correct and I never looked at it from that kind of view.

Their concerns are meaningful and I do respect them as people but in my opinion their beliefs are selfish which fair enough if I have the right to see them as selfish they have just as much right to see it as not selfish there is no right answer.


People have a right to not want to pay for a service they won't use however I believe is a freedom that we need to give up to an extent for the greater good.

Not everyone would agree though I guess and it shows that I mean there really is no right answer because someone will still suffer in some way.

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Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/12/17

Ryulightorb wrote:


gghadur77 wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:

WARNING: i know not all Americans are like this i'm stereotyping/ going off the majority of people i have met from America so don't take this as literally me saying it's true.


I know taxes cost way more then they should in America but every time i speak to an American about Healthcare or Education they see it as a privilege instead of a right....from a developed countries point of view that is very odd.

Now i was just reading a reddit thread about a guy who got his cancer treatment paid via taxes mostly and i thought good that's how it should be.

Next thing i know i see all these selfish people writing "I paid for that why should i pay for something i don't use"
The only thing i could think is how selfish are these people...in a society its the job of citizens to pay work and pay taxes to help with roads etc.

Things like Healthcare and Education are important things taxes should goto.
Yes taxes cost more but its for the greater good and helps those who are in need.

People are to selfish and arrogant from where i am looking and i honestly worry for America and the people who i know who live there.

I'm lucky to be in a country where our healthcare and education is paid for by taxes.
So what do you all think sorry i wanted to rant somewhere because seeing people be like that really annoys me we should be working together for the greater good of everyone.


I don't actually believe this, but one could make the argument that your line of thinking is the more selfish one. Most people don't elect to be part of a society, they're just born into it. Why, by mere accident of birth, must they be saddled with an obligation to pay taxes in order to fund roads, education, the military, or whatever else the king, the upper class, the Party, or the majority of the population decides needs funding? Isn't it actually selfish to insist they owe society work and taxes for being part of society when they never really had the option not to be a part of it? Why are they selfish for not wanting to pay for a service that they won't use but others will, but those others aren't selfish for wanting someone else to pay for a service only they have need for? Your "working together for the greater good of everyone" is the same as "forcing people to pay for things they don't need." The only difference is the words you use to describe it.

As I said, I don't actually believe your viewpoint is the more selfish one. However, I don't think your viewpoint is any more or less right, or any more or less selfish, than the viewpoint that taxes are merely forcing people to pay for services they don't use.

I do, however, believe that there is nothing particularly selfless about insisting that "everyone" should pay for government services through taxation. Volunteering at a soup kitchen is selfless. Giving blood is selfless. Setting up or donating to a charity that provides support for those in need is selfless. Making others pay for a service because that satisfies your ideal of a world where everyone supports each other isn't selfless, nor is it actually satisfying that ideal.

"We" aren't "working together for the greater good of everyone" when the government mandates that people pay a tax; instead, 51% of the people are obligating the other 49% of the people to participate in a system they never even wanted. Feel free to adjust these numbers if the vote is less 'close' in your country, but no matter how you cut it unless the vote is unanimous someone's being made to pay for services they don't want. They aren't doing it selflessly, they're doing it because they're legally required to. And when you vote for everyone to pay taxes you aren't saying "I want to support the greater good," you're saying "I want everyone to support the greater good, whether they like it or not." I don't think taxation is wrong, or that taxes are just theft, or anything like that. I don't even think it's bad to have taxes that pay for education, healthcare, or roads. But I don't think voting for taxes and services is a selfless act.

It's rather concerning to me that you view opposition to taxes and services not merely as a difference of opinion or a misguided but understandable fear of government overreach, but a sign of selfishness and arrogance. It's concerning because it seems that you don't really have any respect for the people who think that way. In spite of your talk of "the greater good" you're fine with saying "fuck them" and writing their concerns off as meaningless because it's getting in the way of something that's concerning to you.

Also, the United States of America is a developed country.


Ryulightorb wrote:

I can conceptualise it but it leads those who cannot afford to live or are very sick to suffer.
My country isn't being destroyed there is no poison at all.

The system wouldn't work for everyone that is true however all people should be helping eachother in a working functioning society.
you can disagree that is fine.

But don't go saying my country is being destroyed or poisoned when that is bullshit and wrong.


Pot calling the kettle black. Perhaps you shouldn't go saying stuff like "I'm so concerned about America and Americans because they're so selfish and arrogant" if you don't like people dissing your own country for having a government system they don't think is optimal.



Fair call pot calling the kettle black is correct and I never looked at it from that kind of view.

Their concerns are meaningful and I do respect them as people but in my opinion their beliefs are selfish which fair enough if I have the right to see them as selfish they have just as much right to see it as not selfish there is no right answer.


People have a right to not want to pay for a service they won't use however I believe is a freedom that we need to give up to an extent for the greater good.

Not everyone would agree though I guess and it shows that I mean there really is no right answer because someone will still suffer in some way.



I think you're right there isn't really any "right answer" about this particular question because no solution is perfect and no solution will make everyone happy.

I think it's also correct to say you have "the right" to see people who complain about taxes as selfish.

I even (arguably unlike a number of other people in this thread) think you're right that ultimately, for our society to function, we have to pay for services that we might just not end up using.

That's missing the point I was trying to make, though.

The point I was trying to make is this: Maybe you have 'a right' to look at people who complain about taxation as selfish, arrogant, and worrisome, but in that regard there is a correct answer and you are wrong. I think you owe it to yourself, and to them, to understand that people can and do have reasons for opposing taxation that can't just be simplified to "they're arrogant" or "they don't care about others enough."

You have condensed an incredibly complicated and nuanced set of political issues into "well, the people who disagree with me are selfish and arrogant. I care about them, because I'm neither selfish nor arrogant, but they are and it's really worrisome that they won't just give up their freedoms for the greater good." I know because of people I've encountered, people I've spoken to, and things I've read that it's not just "selfishness and arrogance" which motivates people to oppose paying taxes to support programs they don't use.

I'm not going to try to explain why, aside from being self-centered, stuck-up pricks, people dislike taxes. As I said above, I agree with you that they're to some extent a necessity; distaste for taxation is not something that's for me to explain because I probably wouldn't do it justice. But I think it's something that's very important to understand because writing off those who disagree with you as simply selfish and arrogant isn't really a sign that you care about or respect them. That attitude says more to me about how you really see things than your statement that you actually do "respect them as people."
Posted 1/11/17 , edited 1/12/17

Ryulightorb wrote:


Rujikin wrote:

Let's say you have a fat lazy ass that weights 500lbs, doesn't work because they are on disability due to being fat, and have constant health problems. They have at least $100,000 in health problems a year because they eat nothing but McDonalds and hot pockets.

Then you have yourself. You stay fit, eat good, healthy, and don't even need to go to the doctor.

Why should I pay for that fat lazy ass when they won't even bother taking care of themselves and they are just a drain on the tax payers. My taxes will be raised to pay for someone's lazy life style while I get shafted because I actually care about myself and work.


TTo put it simply you are rewarding bad behavior and punishing good behavior.



Yes there will be the bad apples in the bunch but you shouldn't stop something good just because of those bad apples.
That's just a poor excuse not to pay taxes to help others who are in need imo.


Just wanted to point out that the full idiom is "A few bad apples spoil the bunch." In this idiom, a few bad apples is precisely a reason not to tolerate them. But I know what you mean. Just... do better in the future.

Also, the title should be "why are alot of Americans selfish when it comes to being forcibly divested of their labor, wealth, and time?" At least then we'd be on the same page. Why doesn't anyone like having their money taken? You could ask "why are Americans so selfish when it comes to charitable giving?" But as it turns out, in this metric, they are among the most 'unselfish' in the world. I don't really have much time to discuss this in detail, but I did want to point out a couple easy ways to change your perception of things, to understand the "American Way" of thinking about taxes.

Edit: Oh yeah, and opening post just reminds me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpbOliTHJY
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