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Russia moves to decriminalize domestic violence.
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The White House
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Posted 1/13/17 , edited 1/13/17

Akage-chan wrote:

Their new law doesn't specify that battery is ok. It is designed to help define what parents can do to their children. In other words, it's a law saying that you can spank your child should they get out of line. No where does this law say that you can knock the crap out of them until they need serious medical care. I support parents who give a firm spanking with their hand to their child who acts up. Those children that I've met who were never spanked usually turn out to be little hoodlums.

I agree with them wanting to handle this administratively instead of locking up someone for years. Who takes care of the kid during those two years? The Russian government? An elderly relative? All could be even more damaging. Each is its own individual case. But if the beatings send the child to the hospital, or there are scars from abuse, then yes, the child needs to be separated from the absuive individual.

They are busy making Russia ouout to be the new USSR because they miss the cold war. They don't care about facts only narrative.

Facts have no relevance when you have muh feels.

Yeah its stupid to break up a family unless absolutely necessary. Breaking them up is likely to cause worse problems.
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Hideout #13
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Posted 1/14/17
Beating that causes pain but no harm to health is administrative offense (Administrative Code 6.1.1), punishment - from fine to 10-15 days of administrative arrest to 120 hours of correctional labour.

Same offense but repeated - Criminal Offense, punishment from fine to 240 hours of labour to 3 months of arrest.

Beating that causes light health damage Criminal Offense, article 115, punishment from fine to 2 years in jail.

The harm level is determined by the forensic examination.

More sever cases - what would apply to one similar with that of Hinazuki from Erased:

- Criminal Code, article 117 "Истязания" (Torment): "...causing physical or psychological suffering by systematical beating or other actions..." part 2 (as done to minors), jail time 3-7 years

and

- Criminal offense 156 "...cruel treatment of children by their parents, guardians, etc... such as depriving of food, clothing, normal daily regime etc...", from fine to 3 years in jail

---

The decriminalization - changes of the law from last summer - reduced punishment for some minor crimes, allegedly to both avoid causing more damage than correction (putting minor criminals in jail), and relieve the prisons.

One of the results was that the two special cases of the beating - 1) as a hate crime ("...with motive being political, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious hatred, or an evil will towards some social group..."); and 2) "towards the close relatives" - were now handled by article 116 of the Criminal Code.

Critiques of the new law pointed out few paradoxes:

1) Beating of a relative now was a criminal offense, of a stranger - an administrative one.

2) In theory, it became literally possible to send a parent (or a sibling) to jail for a slap, with the case initiated by a third party.

So, the new law triggered heated debates both on and off line.

On the one hand, there was a controversial subject of the domestic corporal punishment - which there's no consensus on. On the other - public concern about possible misuse of the law: those laws give state the power to control us, and in the real life, we have a reason to be cautious of any loopholes in the law, as they can be used by the state against us (i.e. to take away children - against their will - from a normal parent). And Russian courts don't exactly have the best reputation with the citizens.

Leaving the controversies aside, the problem with non-disputed kind of domestic violence, from what I've read on the police experience exchange forums, is not the light punishment, but the weakness (or absence) of the law enforcement mechanism for handling such extremely sensitive cases and giving ANY punishment at all.

The victim is naturally hesitant to press charges, and even after going ahead, would repeatedly drop them. It may take a while before victim is driven to their wits end and decides to go to court. Meanwhile staff responsible could change several times, would get demotivated (expecting another charge get dropped), the victim lives under the constant stress, often death threats, without any support. Woman abused by her husband could give in to stress and assault the offender herself, becoming a criminal.

There're no methods in place to provide her with safety for a time of investigation. There's no concept of restraining order. (Some districts have non-commercial organizations providing support and temporary shelter)

The domestic violence prevention bill, designed to address these, has been registered in September 2016, discussed and sent back to authors (November 1, 2016) for coordination with government on the pretext of the budget funding it was found to require.

The bill received a lot of critique as well. It was said to be poorly written, have plenty of potential loopholes, allowing, again, to misuse it to take children away from normal parents instead. It didn't help that the authors had a controversial reputation for some "exotic" law proposals.

Pro and anti juvenile justice sides are both quite aggressive to their opponents, making it difficult to hope that an appropriate law will be passed soon.
Posted 1/14/17
Meh.
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M / The System of Sol
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Posted 1/14/17

Akage-chan wrote:

Their new law doesn't specify that battery is ok. It is designed to help define what parents can do to their children. In other words, it's a law saying that you can spank your child should they get out of line. No where does this law say that you can knock the crap out of them until they need serious medical care. I support parents who give a firm spanking with their hand to their child who acts up. Those children that I've met who were never spanked usually turn out to be little hoodlums.

I agree with them wanting to handle this administratively instead of locking up someone for years. Who takes care of the kid during those two years? The Russian government? An elderly relative? All could be even more damaging. Each is its own individual case. But if the beatings send the child to the hospital, or there are scars from abuse, then yes, the child needs to be separated from the absuive individual.


You are completely correct.

Of course, there are going to be many that will start crying, because if they lived in Russia, they wouldn't be able to get away with being little ***** and expect to get away with it. Punishment due, punishment due.
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31 / M
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Posted 1/14/17
Off topic but I'm curious what the count is for men who suffur domestic violence is in Russia. The article never said.
Posted 1/14/17 , edited 1/14/17
Oh now we have a sane reading of a decriminalize law. One wonders where it was hiding with child prostitution thread.
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Posted 1/14/17 , edited 1/14/17

mxdan wrote:


Sounds like rainbow and sunshine kind a place.



nekobi 
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25 / F / With the Adeptus...
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Posted 1/14/17
Next stop the reformation of the USSR
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☆Land of sweets☆
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Posted 1/14/17 , edited 1/14/17
there's a difference between disciplining your child and outright beating them until they lose conscience.
you could argue whether discipline is worth it or not, but consider this:
US is largely against disciplining their kids, while countries like S Korea (and i believe China / Japan too) have a long history of disciplining their chidren. guess which one has trouble with spoiled children, and which one has a low ranking in education? hint: it's not S Korea.
spoiled children is such an issue in the US, there's even a tv show about it (which is basically about kids running around screaming on top of their lungs while the parents are helpless not knowing what to do)

edit:


“Battery carried out towards family members should be an administrative offence,” Ms Mizulina continued. “You don’t want people to be imprisoned for two years and labelled a criminal for the rest of their lives for a slap.”

slap as discipline =/= beating the child
if there's an actual beating, then yes the authorities should investigate and deal with the parents as necessary.
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20 / F / Germany
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Posted 1/14/17

nekobi wrote:

Next stop the reformation of the USSR


Time to make Ukrainians and other non-Russians suffer again. Oh, wait. That plan has already been initiated.
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34 / M
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Posted 1/14/17

Akage-chan wrote:

Their new law doesn't specify that battery is ok. It is designed to help define what parents can do to their children. In other words, it's a law saying that you can spank your child should they get out of line. No where does this law say that you can knock the crap out of them until they need serious medical care. I support parents who give a firm spanking with their hand to their child who acts up. Those children that I've met who were never spanked usually turn out to be little hoodlums.

I agree with them wanting to handle this administratively instead of locking up someone for years. Who takes care of the kid during those two years? The Russian government? An elderly relative? All could be even more damaging. Each is its own individual case. But if the beatings send the child to the hospital, or there are scars from abuse, then yes, the child needs to be separated from the absuive individual.


That's very true, though the people virtue signaling aren't going to admit it.

Not to be rude, but I must ask, how is it that you're sane while being from San Francisco? I thought they put something in the water there to make certain you can not think straight.
mxdan 
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Posted 1/14/17

Emtro wrote:


Akage-chan wrote:

Their new law doesn't specify that battery is ok. It is designed to help define what parents can do to their children. In other words, it's a law saying that you can spank your child should they get out of line. No where does this law say that you can knock the crap out of them until they need serious medical care. I support parents who give a firm spanking with their hand to their child who acts up. Those children that I've met who were never spanked usually turn out to be little hoodlums.

I agree with them wanting to handle this administratively instead of locking up someone for years. Who takes care of the kid during those two years? The Russian government? An elderly relative? All could be even more damaging. Each is its own individual case. But if the beatings send the child to the hospital, or there are scars from abuse, then yes, the child needs to be separated from the absuive individual.


That's very true, though the people virtue signaling aren't going to admit it.

Not to be rude, but I must ask, how is it that you're sane while being from San Francisco? I thought they put something in the water there to make certain you can not think straight.


Have you ever been to San Fransisco haha? I love it there and never once did I see an overboard 'gay' population. I'm pretty sure they are spread out all over the western coast these days.
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Posted 1/14/17

mxdan wrote:
Have you ever been to San Fransisco haha? I love it there and never once did I see an overboard 'gay' population. I'm pretty sure they are spread out all over the western coast these days.


I've met plenty of sane gay people, just not from San Francisco.
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Posted 2/3/18
Forum clean up ^,^ removing posts from over a year ago!
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