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Post Reply North Korea to Obama: Start packing
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Posted 1/19/17

runec wrote:


MysticGon wrote:
I think optics matter and with the ability to cancel exercises the build up in conjunction with sanctions and the timing of it all is leading to some dangerous dick waving as you put it in another thread.

Cambodia and the Philippines canceling or reducing drills with the US.

http://macaudailytimes.com.mo/cambodia-military-exercise-us-canceled.html

http://www.militarytimes.com/articles/no-phiblex-in-2017

The U.S. has cancelled military exercises in the past based on treatment of gays.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0EU26N20140619

These are military operations or drills and thus the buck stops with the commander-in-chief.


There's a pretty big difference between a joint military exercise and providing support for NATO allies in the face of a regional aggressor. One would just finished attacking your political system at that.

That you're even trying to make this comparison is pretty suspect.



MysticGon wrote:With Isreal the timing to abstain is quite frankly suspect and even news outlets you might find friendly see the action for what it was.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/world/middleeast/israel-benjamin-netanyahu-barack-obama.html


You really should read this one yourself. Its a solid write up of the entire history of the situation.




MysticGon wrote:
You can be coy about it all you like but the same way you can question my concern about confronting Russia I would pose the same question for your defense of Obama.


What alternative would you propose for dealing with Russia and protecting your allies then?

I am defending Obama because your argument thus far in this thread has been:

#1: Using North Korea as the barometer for what the world thinks of America
#2: Using a hodgepodge of unattributed quotes, some of which you misrepresented, others from countries whose opinion isn't worth much.
#3: Claiming that Obama is making last minute decisions out of spite towards the incoming administration instead of as the end result of long standing policies and situations.

All 3 of these are demonstrably false.






The North Korea quip was hyperbolic I'll concede. Word on the street is they'll test a missile during the inauguration. They have no friends on the global stage save for China who has been increasingly annoyed with their actions. The rebuttal to the sanctions is also not a unexpected response. They would show the same disrespect to any American leader.

That said I still think the American image on the world stage has diminished among it's enemies but also some of it's allies. I also think he is overstepping his bounds by setting the tone in these last minute moves, knowing they stand counter to the views of the next administration. You can disagree and that's okay but the unfiltered views of government officials have infinitely more weight and significance than your's.
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Posted 1/19/17 , edited 1/19/17

MysticGon wrote:
That said I still think the American image on the world stage has diminished among it's enemies but also some of it's allies. I also think he is overstepping his bounds by setting the tone in these last minute moves, knowing they stand counter to the views of the next administration. You can disagree and that's okay but the unfiltered views of government officials have infinitely more weight and significance than your's.


But again the actual research done on this topic flat out disagrees with you:

http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/06/29/as-obama-years-draw-to-close-president-and-u-s-seen-favorably-in-europe-and-asia/

Obama did incredibly well restoring your image abroad after Bush and conversely the world at large views Trump as an overwhelming negative. The main people that dislike Obama are assholes and the main people that actually like Trump are those same assholes. That is not a good sign.

And again, there's not much last minute about these moves. They're the end result of years worth of crap. Is Bibi not overstepping his bounds by going around Obama to congress or going around Obama to Trump? Is Trump not overstepping his bounds by interjecting himself when he's not yet president?

Also, you think the views of government officials under people like Ergodan, Duterte or Bibi are "unfiltered"? You can't be serious.

I mean this is what you elected:







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Posted 1/19/17

runec wrote:


MysticGon wrote:
That said I still think the American image on the world stage has diminished among it's enemies but also some of it's allies. I also think he is overstepping his bounds by setting the tone in these last minute moves, knowing they stand counter to the views of the next administration. You can disagree and that's okay but the unfiltered views of government officials have infinitely more weight and significance than your's.


But again the actual research done on this topic flat out disagrees with you:

http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/06/29/as-obama-years-draw-to-close-president-and-u-s-seen-favorably-in-europe-and-asia/

Obama did incredibly well restoring your image abroad after Bush and conversely the world at large views Trump as an overwhelming negative. The main people that dislike Obama are assholes and the main people that actually like Trump are those same assholes. That is not a good sign.

And again, there's not much last minute about these moves. They're the end result of years worth of crap. Is Bibi not overstepping his bounds by going around Obama to congress or going around Obama to Trump? Is Trump not overstepping his bounds by interjecting himself when he's not yet president?

Also, you think the views of government officials under people like Ergodan, Duterte or Bibi are "unfiltered"? You can't be serious.

I mean this is what you elected:









Hate to say it but on the global scales polls don't set policy, these elected assholes do. :/
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Posted 1/19/17

MysticGon wrote:
Hate to say it but on the global scales polls don't set policy, these elected assholes do. :/


Please settle on an argument. Its kind of hard to debate this when you change what you're arguing about every couple posts. -.-

Yes, these assholes do set policy in their asshole governments in their possibly asshole countries. It doesn't mean anyone needs to listen to them or appease them though. IE North Korea.

Or worse yet, elect an equally asshole government to rub assholes with them.

Edit: Curse you form handler error.
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Posted 1/19/17

runec wrote:


MysticGon wrote:
Hate to say it but on the global scales polls don't set policy, these elected assholes do. :/


Please settle on an argument. Its kind of hard to debate this when you change what you're arguing about every couple posts. -.-

Yes, these assholes do set policy in their asshole governments in their possibly asshole countries. It doesn't mean anyone needs to listen to them or appease them though. IE North Korea.

Or worse yet, elect an equally asshole government to rub assholes with them.

Edit: Curse you form handler error.


I guess I should clarify what I mean by "world". My view of the world is = these elected "assholes" who also happen to be the decision-makers for their country. North Korea =/= the world but can affect its corner of the world. It's an enemy that doesn't fear the superpower that is America.

I'll cut off some avenues I'm sure you'll try to exploit. I believe Obama would have turned the North into a glass parking lot if attacked. That said China was late to the game when it came to sanctions and with Trump hammering the Taiwan and trade issue I believe he might have been building leverage for the eventual confrontation. I think the sanctions (though warranted) antagonize and provoke an already unstable foe. Actions by a man who will no longer have any importance this time tomorrow might affect the situation.

The military build up in Eastern Europe is being seen in Russia as a provocation. Provoking another country that can lead the literal world to MAD just isn't wise at the best of times. When they view their actions in Syria, Ukraine or in other countries' elections as no different from the actions their rival does in Syria, Libya or other countries' elections. Complete with dead civilians and all.

I'm trying to be thorough here, what I miss? Oh Isreal. Obama let personal issues between him and another leader affect his policy towards the whole nation, or at least that's how that country's elected asshole views it despite the $34 billion check you cut him. Not good since he's the one that sets policy.

Not saying Trump will be better. But if you, in your lame-duck session, keep trying to preach to your successor and to other leaders who, let's face it, don't give a shit what you have to say you cheapen the words and promise of the most powerful country on Earth. I see it as a continuation of the "fuck you, executive action" Obama of the last 6 years. Arrogant and spiteful.
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Posted 1/19/17 , edited 1/20/17
When the Clintons packed up to move out, didn't they have to return some of the furniture, cause those were antiques that were part of the White House? I remember reading something like that. I wonder what the Obama's will have to return?

*polite knock on the door at the Obamas' new home*

*Door opens*

Michelle Obama: "Yes?*

Secret Service man: "Mrs. Obama, is the president in?"

Michelle Obama: "Yes. Wait a moment, I'll get him."

*door closes*

*a moment later, door opens*

Barack Obama: "Hello.... Uh..., Tim. Right?"

Secret Service man: "Yes, Mr. President. I'm honored you remember my name."

Barack Obama: "Of course. I really appreciate the wonderful job you and your colleges did keeping me and my family safe. What can I do for you?"

Secret Service man: "Yes, Mr. President. I was sent here to get the, uh..., football back from you."

Barack Obama: "Football?"

Secret Service man: "Yes, Mr. President. That and the keys. We need those back, too."

Barack Obama: "Well, give me a moment."

*a moment later*

*distant rumbling sounds*

Secret Service man: *looks around at the sky. Sees smoke trails going up all over the place.*

Barack Obama: "Here you go."

Secret Service man: "You opened the, uh..., football, sir?"

Barak Obama: "Here are the keys, too. I've always loved fireworks!"

Secret Service man: "Thanks, Mr. President. I guess I better head back. Good luck in your new endeavors, sir."

Barack Obama: "You too, Tim."
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