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Post Reply Australia is just Collateral damage to trump
mxdan 
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Posted 1/24/17


Cough cough tariffs-were-a-reason-for-the-great-depression cough cough

>_>
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Posted 1/24/17
A few things in the Australian and US free trade agreements hurt Australian's badly.
The US bananas having Panama Disease for example. Which is now In Australia https://www.daf.qld.gov.au/plants/health-pests-diseases/a-z-significant/panama-disease2. Not that I like banana's they are yucky and should be removed off the planet. Which has nearly been the case in the 1950's (I only like cats in my bananas :p )
Other crops that the US exports to Australia are also at risk of some nasties.

The US only having 320million population or whatever it is at the moment.
It's hardly the end of the world instead of the US look at India, Bangladesh, Pakistan combined have like 5x as much of a population then US and Australians really don't trade with them at all. It might take a few months or years to sort out whatever but in the long run wont be that bad.

Some countries just rely on there pals from a former time way too much now days anyway. If the US stagnates under protectionism it will be smooth/near smooth sailing for the rest of the world.
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Posted 1/24/17

kevz_210 wrote:
Raising the minimum wage can help to a point, but we cannot kid ourselves and claim we can raise it forever without consequence. Typically, you can raise minimum wage to about 50-60% of an areas average wage, exceeding this value creates a very large labor black market (see Latin America) which pays zero in taxes.

Yes, corporations can get away with "criminally low wages" because no matter how crappy they are, as long as working conditions in many of our trading partners' countries are so miserable people will continue to work for almost free and US corporations can use this fact as a threat in wage and benefit negotiations.

Ah yes healthcare, don't kid yourself the Democrats are no angels here either despite rhetoric. Their party leaders have been and still are taking handouts from big pharm and the insurance industry. Until that lobby money is removed from the equation any real universal healthcare is a pipe dream.


Well, I'm not advocating for it to be cranked to 100% or anything. It needs to be set at a living wage then an annual increase tied to the cost of living index. That's how we approach it up here in the frozen north. If minimum wage isn't factored against cost of living then its not a living wage. This does allow for the minimum wage to be set at a state level in accordance with cost of living. But the important part is that there's an established relationship between the cost of living and the minimum wage. Instead of just ignoring it until people get angry enough en mass to start affecting your vote tallies.

Though, again, US corporations that are multinational don't have any problems paying living wages to people in countries comparable to the US. So they'll keep doing it to the US as long as the US keeps allowing them to get away with it.

I'm not kidding myself about the Democrats. But at least they put forth some effort in moving towards a single payer or universal system. Plus they haven't sunken to the point of being literal cartoon villains and become self parodies of themselves. At least when a Democrat lies they make some effort to make sure you can't catch them on tape saying the exact opposite. Multiple times.




kevz_210 wrote:
Where are these displaced workers supposed to go? To cities with already overpriced housing and rent markets? The US is already highly urbanized, and zoning laws make it extremely slow to add to the housing stock which in turn makes it extremely difficult financially for many of these low wage workers to move into such areas without moving into an area overrun with crime and poor housing conditions.

I disagree, NAFTA and the normalization of trade with China agreement destroyed the standard of living for millions and destroy many cities' tax base (too many people unemployed or working for peanuts). If you cannot get an adequate worker retraining program in place prior to displacing so many workers it is only going to make things worse. This will happen in one or two ways by either A) making many of these workers de facto unemployable (skills mismatch), or B.) keeping them in low wage temp work while they try get the expensive training needed to change careers, which makes them a tax burden during this transitional period.

You keep throwing all the blame at the Republicans, but the corporate wing of the Democrat party has been complacent in many of the failing policies you mentioned when push comes to shove.


There are things between those two extremes and even similar sized towns with healthier economic conditions. I'm referring to towns that were only created because of an industry boom and thus died off when said boom stopped. It wasn't sustainable in the first place and wasting your energy yelling for it to come back isn't going to accomplish anything.

I am not against worker retraining. In fact it should be a key component in handling some of these problems. But if people resist retraining programs because they want some job from the 70s or 80s back and some knob politician keeps telling them those are totally coming back. -.-

I heap blame on Republicans because they're the ones with stated economic policies that are proven, demonstrable failures. But which they continue to push and insist if they just do it even MORE than it will somehow magically start to work. While at the same time they typically oppose policies that would relieve burden or improve quality of life. Such as minimum wage or healthcare reform. They push corporate privatization as the solution to problems when history has proven time and time again there are certain things you simply cannot leave in the hands of a for profit entity if you want it to work for the good of society.

The Democrats are not perfect by any means but historically their economic policies are a positive. Blue states are, on average, in better economic, social and educational positions. And contribute more federally than they receive.

The Republicans, historically, have been pushing some variant of horse and sparrow for decades. Even though that idea has played more and more into the hands of an increasingly corporate economy. Feeding into one of the largest's wealth gap's in the entire world. The US is absolutely filthy rich. But it's citizens aren't.

Yet to hear them speak every single problem that has been plaguing America for generations is someone else's fault. There's nothing we can do better to fix it. Instead we have to attack someone who we think is doing better than us to make ourselves better.








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Posted 1/24/17

Xxanthar wrote:

Sorry, we'll fix our country, you fix yours. Anyway, I thought I read that Australia leased a port where the USA has a base to the Chinese.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/21/world/australia/china-darwin-port-landbridge.html?_r=0

You guys trade with your Chinese pals.


No we need to keep trading with America xP
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Posted 1/24/17

Xxanthar wrote:

Sorry, we'll fix our country, you fix yours. Anyway, I thought I read that Australia leased a port where the USA has a base to the Chinese.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/21/world/australia/china-darwin-port-landbridge.html?_r=0

You guys trade with your Chinese pals.



Fix our country..

ahem..

Is that before or after Australia's economy gets screwed over by American Incompetence for the second time in 1 decade?

As for the port, it went through the national security committee and cleared it with good health..

"Australia’s defense secretary, Dennis Richardson, rejected the criticism, saying the Chinese could find out what they wanted by “sitting on a stool at the fish-and-chip shop on the wharf” and noting the vessels that entered the harbor."

Pretty much in tune with

http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/northern-territory/spying-mission-comes-from-jakarta-with-huff/news-story/69ec4c5e495d64e4699218eb24c25f77?nk=b5e136b86ec6603d0c2dee58dc5c5af2-1485324118

"General Nurmantyo boasted about his own spying exploits, outlining to a respected Indonesian media outlet how he recently went undercover to check out US marine facilities in Darwin.

“I went there pretending to be on a visit to Darwin and for one and half hours I hired a tourist boat,” General Nurmantyo said.

“I saw two [landing bases] had already been built. Even though Australia is a continental state — what does it need marines for?”"






Posted 1/25/17
sure what ever you want believe
Trump got this one right next on his list tackle immigration! for me this been far to long waiting
Posted 1/25/17

MysteryMiss wrote:

sure what ever you want believe
Trump got this one right next on his list tackle immigration! for me this been far to long waiting


204 weeks to go until we get rid of Trump... start the countdown...

But no, seriously. While I agree with some of the ideas that Trump's team have come up with, just that the implementation has been absolutely abhorrent. It's like watching a nine-year-old trying to play "Operations" with one of their feet - it's possible and it's pretty interesting, but it's not going to go too well.

I do feel ashamed as to how we're basically trying to reject helping out countries who have been here time and time against for the United States. People ramble on about how we need to get our own country in order first - but this isn't the right way to go about it. Then again, the partisan nonsense is still overlooking quite a lot of issues with America. Instead, we have Trump who's basically deciding to outcast our allies and shun them in favor of doing nothing productive. I do see ourselves losing a lot more allies in the next four years, especially the ones who have been good to us.
Posted 1/25/17 , edited 1/25/17

Moose5122 wrote:


Xxanthar wrote:

Sorry, we'll fix our country, you fix yours. Anyway, I thought I read that Australia leased a port where the USA has a base to the Chinese.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/21/world/australia/china-darwin-port-landbridge.html?_r=0

You guys trade with your Chinese pals.



Fix our country..

ahem..

Is that before or after Australia's economy gets screwed over by American Incompetence for the second time in 1 decade?

As for the port, it went through the national security committee and cleared it with good health..

"Australia’s defense secretary, Dennis Richardson, rejected the criticism, saying the Chinese could find out what they wanted by “sitting on a stool at the fish-and-chip shop on the wharf” and noting the vessels that entered the harbor."

Pretty much in tune with

http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/northern-territory/spying-mission-comes-from-jakarta-with-huff/news-story/69ec4c5e495d64e4699218eb24c25f77?nk=b5e136b86ec6603d0c2dee58dc5c5af2-1485324118

"General Nurmantyo boasted about his own spying exploits, outlining to a respected Indonesian media outlet how he recently went undercover to check out US marine facilities in Darwin.

“I went there pretending to be on a visit to Darwin and for one and half hours I hired a tourist boat,” General Nurmantyo said.

“I saw two [landing bases] had already been built. Even though Australia is a continental state — what does it need marines for?”"









We are not responsible for your failures as a country. Nobody asked you to leech off of the USA. You are going tp get your wish when Trump shuts out bases in Australia. Be happy, China is going to be your new protector.
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Posted 1/25/17

Xxanthar wrote:


Moose5122 wrote:


Xxanthar wrote:

Sorry, we'll fix our country, you fix yours. Anyway, I thought I read that Australia leased a port where the USA has a base to the Chinese.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/21/world/australia/china-darwin-port-landbridge.html?_r=0

You guys trade with your Chinese pals.



Fix our country..

ahem..

Is that before or after Australia's economy gets screwed over by American Incompetence for the second time in 1 decade?

As for the port, it went through the national security committee and cleared it with good health..

"Australia’s defense secretary, Dennis Richardson, rejected the criticism, saying the Chinese could find out what they wanted by “sitting on a stool at the fish-and-chip shop on the wharf” and noting the vessels that entered the harbor."

Pretty much in tune with

http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/northern-territory/spying-mission-comes-from-jakarta-with-huff/news-story/69ec4c5e495d64e4699218eb24c25f77?nk=b5e136b86ec6603d0c2dee58dc5c5af2-1485324118

"General Nurmantyo boasted about his own spying exploits, outlining to a respected Indonesian media outlet how he recently went undercover to check out US marine facilities in Darwin.

“I went there pretending to be on a visit to Darwin and for one and half hours I hired a tourist boat,” General Nurmantyo said.

“I saw two [landing bases] had already been built. Even though Australia is a continental state — what does it need marines for?”"









We are not responsible for your failures as a country. Nobody asked you to leech off of the USA. You are going tp get your wish when Trump shuts out bases in Australia. Be happy, China is going to be your new protector.


Uhm Australia and America should work together.
we don't leech off America we work together right now and that needs to continue.

Our country CANNOT be succesful on it's own we need other countries.
Posted 1/25/17 , edited 1/25/17

Ryulightorb wrote:

Uhm Australia and America should work together.
we don't leech off America we work together right now and that needs to continue.

Our country CANNOT be succesful on it's own we need other countries.


We can't afford to pay for Australia's survival by running huge trade deficits with you. If you want to trade, then you can trade fairly with the USA or go trade with china.

Trump is going to stop the killing of American jobs, and foreign aid disguised at trade deficits. No more deals designed to hurt our country. You need us, we don't need you. You should remember that when you sell your ports to the Chinese behind our back so that they can spy on us. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Maybe the Chinese will find out that kangaroo nuts makes good Chinese medicine and you can sell that to them.
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Posted 1/25/17

Xxanthar wrote:


Moose5122 wrote:


Xxanthar wrote:

Sorry, we'll fix our country, you fix yours. Anyway, I thought I read that Australia leased a port where the USA has a base to the Chinese.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/21/world/australia/china-darwin-port-landbridge.html?_r=0

You guys trade with your Chinese pals.



Fix our country..

ahem..

Is that before or after Australia's economy gets screwed over by American Incompetence for the second time in 1 decade?

As for the port, it went through the national security committee and cleared it with good health..

"Australia’s defense secretary, Dennis Richardson, rejected the criticism, saying the Chinese could find out what they wanted by “sitting on a stool at the fish-and-chip shop on the wharf” and noting the vessels that entered the harbor."

Pretty much in tune with

http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/northern-territory/spying-mission-comes-from-jakarta-with-huff/news-story/69ec4c5e495d64e4699218eb24c25f77?nk=b5e136b86ec6603d0c2dee58dc5c5af2-1485324118

"General Nurmantyo boasted about his own spying exploits, outlining to a respected Indonesian media outlet how he recently went undercover to check out US marine facilities in Darwin.

“I went there pretending to be on a visit to Darwin and for one and half hours I hired a tourist boat,” General Nurmantyo said.

“I saw two [landing bases] had already been built. Even though Australia is a continental state — what does it need marines for?”"









We are not responsible for your failures as a country. Nobody asked you to leech off of the USA. You are going tp get your wish when Trump shuts out bases in Australia. Be happy, China is going to be your new protector.


If Trump shuts down bases, this will significantly hinder the USA's intelligence capabilities. One such example of a base of vital importance is Pine Gap, which controls US spy satellites, giving them the means to collect data on countries located in Asian regions and part of the Middle East.

China is our biggest trading partner...Not our protector.

Posted 1/25/17

matt22122 wrote:


If Trump shuts down bases, this will significantly hinder the USA's intelligence capabilities. One such example of a base of vital importance is Pine Gap, which controls US spy satellites, giving them the means to collect data on countries located in Asian regions and part of the Middle East.

China is our biggest trading partner...Not our protector.



I'm sure we can find someplace else to place a satellite control center. I'd imagine it's probably not even required these days since the information can be relayed through other satellites. Maybe we can build an Island off of Australia like the Chinese did near Japan, if we have to.
Beats taking a chance of having china intercept that data or possibly jam it by buying some Australian land near the bases. I'm not saying that trump is going to close the bases, but I would if I were in his shoes.
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Posted 1/25/17

Xxanthar wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:

Uhm Australia and America should work together.
we don't leech off America we work together right now and that needs to continue.

Our country CANNOT be succesful on it's own we need other countries.


We can't afford to pay for Australia's survival by running huge trade deficits with you. If you want to trade, then you can trade fairly with the USA or go trade with china.

Trump is going to stop the killing of American jobs, and foreign aid disguised at trade deficits. No more deals designed to hurt our country. You need us, we don't need you. You should remember that when you sell your ports to the Chinese behind our back so that they can spy on us. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Maybe the Chinese will find out that kangaroo nuts makes good Chinese medicine and you can sell that to them.


Trump's "policies" will be at best ineffective and worst possibly destructive. Most factory jobs are increasingly being replace by automation. So even if companies decide to jump on the Trump bandwagon and move their production lines to the US, this will mean little for those who are in need of practical solutions. Furthermore, not all foreign aid is charity. Alot of so called aid is used to fund military and intelligence services in other countries. This enables the US utilise additional resources for purposes such as intelligence, increasing the ability of federal agencies to stop potential security threats, before they are carried out by either rogue states or terrorists.

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Posted 1/25/17 , edited 1/25/17

Xxanthar wrote:


matt22122 wrote:


If Trump shuts down bases, this will significantly hinder the USA's intelligence capabilities. One such example of a base of vital importance is Pine Gap, which controls US spy satellites, giving them the means to collect data on countries located in Asian regions and part of the Middle East.

China is our biggest trading partner...Not our protector.



I'm sure we can find someplace else to place a satellite control center. I'd imagine it's probably not even required these days since the information can be relayed through other satellites. Maybe we can build an Island off of Australia like the Chinese did near Japan, if we have to.
Beats taking a chance of having china intercept that data or possibly jam it by buying some Australian land near the bases. I'm not saying that trump is going to close the bases, but I would if I were in his shoes.


Pine Gap is located in the centre of the continent. Relocating the base to an island would only make it easier for foreign entities to intercept transmissions.


The US has thought about replacing it [Pine Gap]. A former senior CIA official told me in the 1990s with casual confidence that if ever Australia became politically "unreliable", the US could replicate its functions by simply putting up another satellite.

The Americans did later flirt with doing exactly that, but the physics of replacing of Pine Gap with a satellite proved impossible, according to informed officials.

Excerpt from http://www.smh.com.au/comment/australia-has-a-secret-weapon-to-keep-donald-trump-in-our-alliance-20161114-gsor2j.html
Posted 1/25/17 , edited 1/25/17

matt22122 wrote:

Trump's "policies" will be at best ineffective and worst possibly destructive. Most factory jobs are increasingly being replace by automation. So even if companies decide to jump on the Trump bandwagon and move their production lines to the US, this will mean little for those who are in need of practical solutions. Furthermore, not all foreign aid is charity. Alot of so called aid is used to fund military and intelligence services in other countries. This enables the US utilise additional resources for purposes such as intelligence, increasing the ability of federal agencies to stop potential security threats, before they are carried out by either rogue states or terrorists.



Thanks for your concern, but I think we will manage just fine on our own, like we always have. Australia used to be a very valuable ally. Not so much anymore, after your government neutered the population and became a lackey for globalization and a lap dog for China.

I'm sure if Trump's policies cause a financial crisis in Australia, China will be right there to offer you some money in exchange for a few of your freedoms.
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