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Australia is just Collateral damage to trump
Posted 1/25/17 , edited 1/25/17

matt22122 wrote:


How is Australia a failed state by any means. Our economy was one of the few that withstood the Global Financial Crisis.

Please stop slinging the word 'socialist' around, without any understanding of the context. Government services help the entire community, not just the beneficiaries. If someone doesn't have health insurance they may delay treatment until the problem becomes a larger issue, meaning that it will cost more to treat the individual, then what it would have if they had sought out treatment earlier. We give a small sum to those who are either unable to work, or looking for work, as it reduces instances of crime.

From my perspective, America seems more interested in propping up big, influential organisations, rather than taking care of its people. The Republicans seem to care more about unborn fetuses than actual living humans. While the Democrats seem more interested in their own political survival. At this point politics has become a sport with people lining behind their favourite team. While this issue extends beyond the USA, the country is a prime example of how politics should not be conducted.

I commented in a previous post that I am of the opinion that Australia should seek out alliances within our own region (eg. ASEAN), rather than just relying on the USA.


I think it would be wonderful for the socialist government of Australia to continue trade with communist China You have become like two peas in a pod. Carry on with your pals, while the USA makes good deals with our allies. Blame China for any economic fall out, not the USA.
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Posted 1/25/17 , edited 1/25/17

Xxanthar wrote:
Australia to continue trade with communist China

Long winded walls of text with straw man arguments


Pretty sure this guy is a troll, look at his profile page.

I like that he says Austraila continues to trade with China, while I too live in the USA and working in a warehouse that get boxes delivered from China daily which needs to be loaded onto trucks and dispered as ordered through out the USA according to what ever is ordered, as well as other Asian nations. Weird where those trade partners are located, even though the Chinese goods are of dubious quality they still take the dollar and the US seems happy to supply it.
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Posted 1/25/17 , edited 1/25/17

Xxanthar wrote:


matt22122 wrote:


How is Australia a failed state by any means. Our economy was one of the few that withstood the Global Financial Crisis.

Please stop slinging the word 'socialist' around, without any understanding of the context. Government services help the entire community, not just the beneficiaries. If someone doesn't have health insurance they may delay treatment until the problem becomes a larger issue, meaning that it will cost more to treat the individual, then what it would have if they had sought out treatment earlier. We give a small sum to those who are either unable to work, or looking for work, as it reduces instances of crime.

From my perspective, America seems more interested in propping up big, influential organisations, rather than taking care of its people. The Republicans seem to care more about unborn fetuses than actual living humans. While the Democrats seem more interested in their own political survival. At this point politics has become a sport with people lining behind their favourite team. While this issue extends beyond the USA, the country is a prime example of how politics should not be conducted.

I commented in a previous post that I am of the opinion that Australia should seek out alliances within our own region (eg. ASEAN), rather than just relying on the USA.


I think it would be wonderful for the socialist government of Australia to continue trade with communist China You have become like two peas in a pod. Carry on with your pals, while the USA makes good deals with our allies. Blame China for any economic fall out, not the USA.


Did you just skip over my response in an attempt to ignore the facts of the situation. Stop acting as if America is the greatest country on the planet. I've been trying to engage in an intelligent, nuanced discussion, but you seem more interested in cheering for your favourite team. My issue does not lie with you having an opposing opinion, but if you're going to engage others with said opinion please back it up with reasonable arguments.

Edit: China is the second largest trading partner of the USA, while the USA is China's largest trading partner.

If Trump suddenly decided to halt trade relations with China, the economy would collapse. Strong trade relations with China also ensure peace between both countries.

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Posted 1/25/17 , edited 1/25/17
]

China is the second largest trading partner of the US. You usually don't count the EU because it's not really its own trade partner and more so a group of them.
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Posted 1/25/17 , edited 1/25/17

octorockandroll wrote:

]

China is the second largest trading partner of the US. You usually don't count the EU because it's not really its own trade partner and more so a group of them.


Thanks for the correction. I was of two minds on whether the EU was counted. Since the EU is not counted, the USA is China's largest trading partner.

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Posted 1/25/17 , edited 1/25/17

Xxanthar wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:

Uhm Australia and America should work together.
we don't leech off America we work together right now and that needs to continue.

Our country CANNOT be succesful on it's own we need other countries.


We can't afford to pay for Australia's survival by running huge trade deficits with you. If you want to trade, then you can trade fairly with the USA or go trade with china.

Trump is going to stop the killing of American jobs, and foreign aid disguised at trade deficits. No more deals designed to hurt our country. You need us, we don't need you. You should remember that when you sell your ports to the Chinese behind our back so that they can spy on us. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Maybe the Chinese will find out that kangaroo nuts makes good Chinese medicine and you can sell that to them.


There not deficits and America needs to keep other countries into consideration
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Posted 1/25/17 , edited 1/25/17

Ryulightorb wrote:


Xxanthar wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:

Uhm Australia and America should work together.
we don't leech off America we work together right now and that needs to continue.

Our country CANNOT be succesful on it's own we need other countries.


We can't afford to pay for Australia's survival by running huge trade deficits with you. If you want to trade, then you can trade fairly with the USA or go trade with china.

Trump is going to stop the killing of American jobs, and foreign aid disguised at trade deficits. No more deals designed to hurt our country. You need us, we don't need you. You should remember that when you sell your ports to the Chinese behind our back so that they can spy on us. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Maybe the Chinese will find out that kangaroo nuts makes good Chinese medicine and you can sell that to them.


There not deficits and America needs to keep other countries into consideration


Hell America's success largely is intrinsic on other countries! American multinational companies account for a large portion of corporate success these days and a significant portion of the companies here are foreign owned. Saying the U.S. can just function on it's own is being completely ignorant to reality.

http://www.cfr.org/united-states/quarterly-update-foreign-ownership-us-assets/p25685
Posted 1/25/17 , edited 1/25/17

Xxanthar wrote:


matt22122 wrote:


How is Australia a failed state by any means. Our economy was one of the few that withstood the Global Financial Crisis.

Please stop slinging the word 'socialist' around, without any understanding of the context. Government services help the entire community, not just the beneficiaries. If someone doesn't have health insurance they may delay treatment until the problem becomes a larger issue, meaning that it will cost more to treat the individual, then what it would have if they had sought out treatment earlier. We give a small sum to those who are either unable to work, or looking for work, as it reduces instances of crime.

From my perspective, America seems more interested in propping up big, influential organisations, rather than taking care of its people. The Republicans seem to care more about unborn fetuses than actual living humans. While the Democrats seem more interested in their own political survival. At this point politics has become a sport with people lining behind their favourite team. While this issue extends beyond the USA, the country is a prime example of how politics should not be conducted.

I commented in a previous post that I am of the opinion that Australia should seek out alliances within our own region (eg. ASEAN), rather than just relying on the USA.


I think it would be wonderful for the socialist government of Australia to continue trade with communist China You have become like two peas in a pod. Carry on with your pals, while the USA makes good deals with our allies. Blame China for any economic fall out, not the USA.


Both of our major parties are centre right. We are not a socialist government. Also "ANZUS".
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Posted 1/25/17 , edited 1/25/17
He probably doesn't even know about ANZUS..let alone know that Australian prime minister John Howard was in Washington DC signing an updated version of the treaty on September 11 2001 and invoked the ANZUS treaty committing Australian Military support to the US before they asked...But you know, we're unreliable

Also got a nice picture



http://www.austrade.gov.au/Australian/Export/Export-markets/Countries/United-States-of-America/Market-profile

Now are you done with your #alternative facts about America running a trade deficit with Australia and want to accept that we took the short straw in this economic partnership in order to be compensated in another way? Backed up strategically and allowed to buy mil tech from the US to improve our Armed Forces? You know trading? Something exchanged for something of equal or agreed value, something that Trump by going America First is about to come unstuck with? You can't make everything America first, otherwise as Trumps about to find out, doors can close as quickly as they are opened.

Now about Trump and the TPP itself

Was it bad? Yes
Should he have committed USA to leave it? NOPE

What he should have done is

-Making a trump like statement "IT SUCKS", sent it back to square one with him taking a personnel interest in negotiating it showing off his awesome "Dealing" skills he has (apparently)
-Ensure the partners were equal compensated if they lost something whilst dealing with each other whilst ensuring the USA lost nothing and gained sufficiently
-Dealt with countries individually as the originally TPP had annex's dealing with individual country to country agreements as part of the TPP overall
-Emerged having kept his America first plan intact, having dealt with 11 countries at once, showing to the world 1) He kept his promises and 2) Will give his trade partners a good deal...albeit with each other...

But nope he rejected it

Now we're all stuck looking to china for "Reliable" Economic Partnerships

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Comprehensive_Economic_Partnership

So have you come to the realisation yet that you just gave China 16 members of the RCEP guaranteed plus any of the TPP members who wish to join it.

That even if Trump puts Tariffs on China, you gave them the means and leverage by sending goods to its trade partners and resending them onwards to the USA via its trade partners (Chinese business setup up in trade partners countries, receive goods, dispatch them onwards) thereby bypassing your tariffs...

Allowing China to destroy the economy of the United States of America when it so pleases as revenge?


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Posted 1/25/17 , edited 1/25/17

Moose5122 wrote:

He probably doesn't even know about ANZUS..let alone know that Australian prime minister John Howard was in Washington DC signing an updated version of the treaty on September 11 2001 and invoked the ANZUS treaty committing Australian Military support to the US before they asked...But you know, we're unreliable


Have you ever been to National Vietnam Veterans Museum on Phillip Island? I went there last year and I was blown away by Australia's involvement with the U.S. during the Vietnam War. Selfless acts that have been completely ignored by the general populace!


Posted 1/25/17 , edited 1/26/17

TPP is a shitty deal. NAFTA is estimated to have cost America between 1-2 million relatively high paying manufacturing jobs in the USA. TPP would be the final nail in the coffin. Countries around the world would rather trade with China and their massive amounts of pollution and slave labor work force. Even the USA is guilty of that. Do we do nothing while China exploits their lack of human rights, and pollution so bad that you have to wear a mask outside, all for cheap shit? Should we buy stuff from China and help pay to build up their military even more? Fund the building islands in international waters for military bases? Nah, We'll just start making some of our own stuff again and slowly wean ourselves off of their garbage. The rest of you can wait for China to run low on resources and take yours by force. It's obvious most of our so-called allies think that they have been getting the short end of the stick all of these years, so maybe Trump is doing you guys a favor. Either negotiate a fair deal, or go ahead and play with Communists.

The past 30 years has consisted of nothing but shitty agreements designed to slow the American economy so the socialists and communists of the world can try and play catch up. For the next 4 years Trump is going to remove as many of the restraints the democrats and the world have imposed on our economy and growth that he can. Let's see what happens. You have no choice but to sit back and watch anyway.

I did say Australia used to be a great ally. Probably up till around 2004 or so. Now Australia wants to lease land to china next to our military bases. With friends like that, who needs enemies.

You say America is not so great, if that's the case any changes Trump makes at home should not effect you in the slightest.

Live your own lives, detach yourselves from Lady Liberty's ass and do what you want. Govern yourself, take responsibility for your own economy, defend yourselves. Live free from the fat greedy capitalist slobs in America... go on... shoo! Be off with you. You're free now! Fly Away!
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Posted 1/26/17 , edited 1/26/17
I think the point of renegotiating TPP and Nafta is to make American's competitive as low tier workers. I think "globalism" could be a great thing, but it can not be if it favors the top 1%. It transcends political and even party lines at this point. As I remember, Bernie Sanders praised Trump on this.


https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/01/24/bernie-sanders-says-hell-work-with-trump-on-trade-while-some-g/21662035/


I think Trump did good. Stupid Democrat politicians voted Hillary in as their nominee without realizing that her stance on these trade deals were one of the major reasons she lost.

Though if Trump did go to instigate a trade war that would effectively strangled the economy, then he does deserve condemnation. I am not sure he will. I do not think he would.
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Posted 1/26/17 , edited 1/26/17
Even so, I still hope things get a least a little better in Australia.
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Posted 1/26/17 , edited 1/26/17
Trade us your Kangaroos lol
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Posted 1/26/17 , edited 1/26/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:
I think Trump did good. Stupid Democrat politicians voted Hillary in as their nominee without realizing that her stance on these trade deals were one of the major reasons she lost.


Comey is one of the major reasons she lost. If the media had devoted virtually any time to either candidates actual policies you might be able to say her stance on trade deals was a major reason. But no one talked about policy and to be bluntly honest I doubt many voters were aware of exactly what TTP was aside from just being told it's bad by their political leaders.

TTP is, or rather was, for the US an issue of political and strategic importance in Asia. Backing out of it means giving up a say in it while conceding the wheel over trade in Asia. Running the risk China will grab said wheel instead.



PeripheralVisionary wrote:
Though if Trump did go to instigate a trade war that would effectively strangled the economy, then he does deserve condemnation. I am not sure he will. I do not think he would.


I don't know where you're getting that confidence from. Congress already tried to dissuade him. Ryan and Brady already put forth a tax plan as an alternative to tariffs to get him off the notion. He dismissed it because it was "too complicated" and he didn't like the name of the plan. >.>

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