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Post Reply GOP legislation against abortion
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26 / M / Leanbox, Gameindu...
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Posted 1/28/17 , edited 1/28/17

mxdan wrote:


Advicepuppy wrote:

Just making it illegal after the start of brain activity would be the smartest thing. Before that we know it's not a person. After that, we can't be certain. We don't know what makes us "us" and conscious, but we know it resides in the brain. After brain activity starts, we have no way (for now, at least) of knowing if the only difference between it and an infant is location.


That's been my stance on the issue since around 2008 or so. I just can't for the life of me understand the mentality of banning potential rather than sentience. I mean by that view masturbation should also be illegal.


Being a moderate that is what I also feel on the issue. While I am personally against it in most cases, I also accept that in early pregnancy whether or not one is truly alive is up for debate and therefore the choice still lies with the individual. That being said the current standard of almost 24 weeks is far too lax since at that point you are past not only brain and heart development, but also the viability milestone.

In the meantime I hope that most of us can get on board with making birth control widely available, having sex ed that covers different types of birth control options (not just abstinence only which is unrealistic for many), and hopefully increasing their effectiveness, which in turn will hopefully also lower the number of abortions.

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Posted 1/28/17

ishe5555 wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:

Those children might not even pay taxes most of them will be dropped off into orphanages.


Even for those where that might be the case, they wouldn't live in orphanages for their adult lives (when they would be paying taxes, anyway) unless they became employed by the orphanage as an adult.


You are assuming they will find jobs and education.
there is a high chance they will be on welfare and use tax money and not contribute much.

That would be fine in my country but America is all about those $$$$ being used properly.
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Posted 1/29/17

kevz_210 wrote:


mxdan wrote:


Advicepuppy wrote:

Just making it illegal after the start of brain activity would be the smartest thing. Before that we know it's not a person. After that, we can't be certain. We don't know what makes us "us" and conscious, but we know it resides in the brain. After brain activity starts, we have no way (for now, at least) of knowing if the only difference between it and an infant is location.


That's been my stance on the issue since around 2008 or so. I just can't for the life of me understand the mentality of banning potential rather than sentience. I mean by that view masturbation should also be illegal.


Being a moderate that is what I also feel on the issue. While I am personally against it in most cases, I also accept that in early pregnancy whether or not one is truly alive is up for debate and therefore the choice still lies with the individual. That being said the current standard of almost 24 weeks is far too lax since at that point you are past not only brain and heart development, but also the viability milestone.

In the meantime I hope that most of us can get on board with making birth control widely available, having sex ed that covers different types of birth control options (not just abstinence only which is unrealistic for many), and hopefully increasing their effectiveness, which in turn will hopefully also lower the number of abortions.



They teach abstinence here in Virginia, or at least in my high school. We had like 9 girls pregnant. (I was responsible for 8).

If only they taught me safe sex...
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Posted 1/29/17 , edited 1/29/17
GOP legislation for life.

If you agree with Planned Abor ....Parenthood, send them your own money; it's high time they got off the public teat - they don't need public funds anyway. What they want is the approval and endorsement that comes with those funds, which they should be denied!

All the listed bills are good common sense laws benefiting women and giving the right to choose life to more of the unborn. Abortion continues to decline, the pro LIFE side is winning, keep up the great work!!
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Posted 1/29/17

Ryulightorb wrote:

You are assuming they will find jobs and education.
there is a high chance they will be on welfare and use tax money and not contribute much.

That would be fine in my country but America is all about those $$$$ being used properly.


I was not assuming anything. I was just pointing out that your counter argument was flawed because it relied on various assumptions. One of those assumptions was that the children would go to orphanages and stay there. There are many other possibilities, such as being taken care of by a family member or friend, going to an orphanage and later being adopted or going into foster care, or being adopted without ever going to an orphanage. The other assumption was that someone who goes to an orphanage would never amount to anything. This is a rather flawed assumption, and there are many people that grew up in each situation of orphanages, foster care, and adoption who have become productive members of society, and in some cases have been people that really contributed toward helping others. One could contend that the argument that you were countering was flawed as well, but not for the reason you used as a counter.
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Posted 1/29/17
I tend to back evidence based policy, and the majority of the evidence based arguments I have seen suggest that legalized abortion is a net-positive. While I am morally pro-life, I believe that legalized abortion is better for the country.
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Posted 1/29/17
You know a local abortion clinic advertised its services as "You had plans! A baby wasn't one of them!"
Posted 1/29/17

MysticGon wrote:

You know a local abortion clinic advertised its services as "You had plans! A baby wasn't one of them!"


And? That's not the most common scenario as to why someone has an abortion, statistically speaking. The "Pro-Lifers" have already won the war, personally. We're down at an all-time low in terms of abortion.

Honestly, though. I'd rather someone abort a child than to have one that won't have anyone genuinely caring for it. As I've stated in many threads thus far: if you can figure out a way to fix the adoption process, the horrible conditions of state-run orphanage home, and make sure that these kids go to a happy home ... why not? But right now, when those kids will end up on the streets, in a broken home, or living off of the government as their parents were never able to get above the poverty line ... Abortions aren't the problem.
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Posted 1/29/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


MysticGon wrote:

You know a local abortion clinic advertised its services as "You had plans! A baby wasn't one of them!"


And? That's not the most common scenario as to why someone has an abortion, statistically speaking. The "Pro-Lifers" have already won the war, personally. We're down at an all-time low in terms of abortion.

Honestly, though. I'd rather someone abort a child than to have one that won't have anyone genuinely caring for it. As I've stated in many threads thus far: if you can figure out a way to fix the adoption process, the horrible conditions of state-run orphanage home, and make sure that these kids go to a happy home ... why not? But right now, when those kids will end up on the streets, in a broken home, or living off of the government as their parents were never able to get above the poverty line ... Abortions aren't the problem.


I don't think terminating them is the answer. I can't even meet you halfway on that one.
Posted 1/29/17

MysticGon wrote:

I don't think terminating them is the answer. I can't even meet you halfway on that one.


So what is a family to do with an unwanted child? Just out of curiosity. I mean, most abortions in the modern day aren't due to this reason - but I'm humoring the logic of the slogan you posted. If a child is unwanted and in a home that has no desire to take care of it nor do they have the financial capacity to do so.. what's going to happen to said child?

I wouldn't consider those who are against abortions as "pro-life" considering their sights are only up to the point of the child's birth - nothing else. Until there's a solution for "post-birth" that is reasonable for the child, I don't see the issue.
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Posted 1/29/17 , edited 1/29/17
HOW ABOUT instead of outlawing abortion, we help those who are already alive!

For example: the homeless, poor, people who don't have access to clean water (like Flint, Michigan since 2014) and other people!
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Posted 1/29/17

official-shinsengumi wrote:

HOW ABOUT instead of outlawing abortion, we help those who are already alive!

For example: the homeless, poor, people who don't have access to clean water (like Flint, Michigan since 2014) and other people!


What the actual fuck, that still hasn't been solved yet? The people in my town flipped their shit on the mayor when we had a boil water advisory for 36 hours.
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Posted 1/29/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


MysticGon wrote:

I don't think terminating them is the answer. I can't even meet you halfway on that one.


So what is a family to do with an unwanted child? Just out of curiosity. I mean, most abortions in the modern day aren't due to this reason - but I'm humoring the logic of the slogan you posted. If a child is unwanted and in a home that has no desire to take care of it nor do they have the financial capacity to do so.. what's going to happen to said child?

I wouldn't consider those who are against abortions as "pro-life" considering their sights are only up to the point of the child's birth - nothing else. Until there's a solution for "post-birth" that is reasonable for the child, I don't see the issue.


That's the gulf isn't it? Talking about someone as if they were an unwanted bill. Our disagreement is fundamental.

Addressing economic woes is a way to remove one of the most heavily used excuses but framing it as a mercy killing... Unconscionable.

It's understandable when a lot of influences say you can 'have it your way' and prioritize freedom over responsibility. When you come from another country where things are done differently it looks alien, inhuman, inhumane.
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Posted 1/29/17

dougeprofile wrote:

GOP legislation for life.

If you agree with Planned Abor ....Parenthood, send them your own money; it's high time they got off the public teat - they don't need public funds anyway. What they want is the approval and endorsement that comes with those funds, which they should be denied!

All the listed bills are good common sense laws benefiting women and giving the right to choose life to more of the unborn. Abortion continues to decline, the pro LIFE side is winning, keep up the great work!!


Actually, it's GOP legislation to get you born. After that, you're on your own - witness the numerous efforts to cut social services for low income families.

No federal funds are used to pay for abortions. The money Planned parenthood receives is used for health services, counseling, family planning, and other things you'd approve of.

When the GOP and the pro-life movement actually step up and help women with unexpected pregnancies by updating and streamlining the adoption process, provide ready access to safe contraceptive means, and educate males on their responsibilities to their sexual partners in terms of emotional support, commitment, and aid, I'll give them props for effort. Until then, their efforts ignore some pretty ugly realities and are really intended to introduce yet even more government intrusion into private lives (you know, the thing the GOP professes to hate).

Posted 1/29/17 , edited 1/29/17

MysticGon wrote:
That's the gulf isn't it? Talking about someone as if they were an unwanted bill. Our disagreement is fundamental.

Addressing economic woes is a way to remove one of the most heavily used excuses but framing it as a mercy killing... Unconscionable.

It's understandable when a lot of influences say you can 'have it your way' and prioritize freedom over responsibility. When you come from another country where things are done differently it looks alien, inhuman, inhumane.


Probably so. I don't really consider an organism that has no heartbeat or brainwaves as "someone" until they get to that stage. Once they reach the point of maturity and have left the womb of the child - what's next? That's something you haven't quite answered yet.

I've, personally, lived in an orphanage when my mother died. I was transferred to two different foster homes - one had an abusive father and the other had an alcoholic mother who would try to be inappropriate with the male children she was meant to be taking care of (I was removed from both). I've worked with what would be the "unwanted" children - where their parents would send them to school without having been bathed for weeks or mothers who would let their boyfriends do horrible things do their "unwanted" daughters or neglecting them until the state takes them and throws them into state-run orphanages.

I think it's because of my experience that I believe abortion is probably a better option than the things I've mentioned above. It sickens me when people are so strongly for "life" that they fail to realize what kind of life that they're wanting for the child that ends up in a home that didn't want them. In a way, it is a mercy killing.

Of course, this is just in the cases that they "had plans" or "couldn't afford a child" .. which, as I've mentioned, isn't the most common cause for abortions these days. It still happens, sure. Those who are against abortion have already won, essentially, without needing to make it illegal.
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