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Legal Workers Line Up for Restaurant Jobs After Sheriff Joe Raids
Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/30/17
Here is a video old but just how it is everyday in California parking lots!

https://youtu.be/-oUOpoILcfw

it's disturbing as fuck.. I bet that girl flipping others off has about 2 or 3 kids back home and is collecting stamps and who knows what else?
state assistance list goes on.. like I said this is a everyday occurance Hell, I just avoid Home depots i shop elsewhere.
Oh U-haul that is another one that they like hanging around U-haul.
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/30/17
The only people who aren't taking "lower paying jobs" are those who are either too prideful, overqualified or have some sort of record/disability preventing them from obtaining the job.

The problem isn't so much the people though, it's the lack of control over illegal hiring and not cracking down enough. You see it happen all the time and it's either kept hush hush or nothing is done about it for various reasons.
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/30/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


Rujikin wrote:

$8 is better than $0. Its not that people want to work there its that they HAVE to work there.


Tell that to people when unemployment gives them more than the minimum wage. Just in my "home state" of Maryland - let's break it down:

Minimum Wage in MD: $8.75 per hour
Average 40 hour work week: $350
Take Home (Monthly): $1141.56 (after taxes, give or take)

Welfare Recipient Amount (between benefits and all): $18.35 per hour
Average 40 hours a week of sitting on sofa: $734.00
Take Home (Monthly): $2,936 (no taxes are taken from this amount)

This isn't just in one state - it's in most states where being on welfare or disability averages out to making more than working 40 hours a week and not getting enough money to sustain your family. Take into consideration that the calculation of "per hour" is mostly in terms of benefits (food stamps, housing subsidies (section 8), spending money (unemployment or disability).. and such). That's not even including those who get unemployment through the company that fired them (this is how Maryland works) - my former colleagues are getting $3,000+ a month from that included with certain welfare benefits. Until there's a balance between how much is required to have a sustainable amount of living - there will be people who exploit the system and would rather not work than to work for minimum wage. That's just the reality of the matter.

Kicking people off of welfare will only cause more complications as they'll become more of a burden on society in other ways. They don't "have" to work there. In my own experiences, when I've lived somewhere that my education doesn't yield enough of a job market (I have a masters degree in mathematics, bachelor's in computer science) .. I move to another state that has a higher concentration of jobs in that field. It means that I suffer for a few months while trying to balance myself.

So in the video - the woman may have had a masters degree but she wasn't willing to sacrifice to get a decent job using said degree - that's her problem that she's "having" to work at a $8 per hour location.


Unemployment does not give you more money than working. I've been unemployed a few times and it gives you half of what you used to make plus it only lasts for so long.

You seem to assume welfare applies to all. I couldn't get welfare if I tried because I meet none of their requirements. I get unemployment then nothing. So $8 is indeed better than $0 because all those pretty numbers you like does not apply to me and many others.

Or she couldn't move due to having a child and being unable to move very far away, or one of many other situations. However this isn't a discussion on why she didn't move it's a discussion on who would want to work at $8/hour and apparently its people with master degrees.
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/30/17

dotsforlife wrote:

The only people who aren't taking "lower paying jobs" are those who are either too prideful, overqualified or have some sort of record/disability preventing them from obtaining the job.

The problem isn't so much the people though, it's the lack of control over illegal hiring and not cracking down enough. You see it happen all the time and it's either kept hush hush or nothing is done about it for various reasons.


There is going to be a pretty big crackdown soon. iCE officers are already saying they have been given the green light to do their jobs again.
Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/30/17

Rujikin wrote:
Unemployment does not give you more money than working. I've been unemployed a few times and it gives you half of what you used to make plus it only lasts for so long.


Again, it depends on the state and I was mostly speaking of welfare versus working. Unemployment depends on the state and the circumstances of your termination, too. When the company is at fault (layoffs instead of being fired/terminated), they're responsible for paying your unemployment in some situations (like the one I mentioned). But as for welfare...


Rujikin wrote:
You seem to assume welfare applies to all. I couldn't get welfare if I tried because I meet none of their requirements. I get unemployment then nothing. So $8 is indeed better than $0 because all those pretty numbers you like does not apply to me and many others.


Welfare applies for those who can get onto it. In the majority of cases that I've seen myself (I've helped enough people get on welfare in Maryland and Tennessee), it's more so about how much you've made and your circumstances. A single guy will have more problems getting on welfare than a woman with a child (this is just logic, really - dependents are important in these circumstances). "Pretty numbers" are facts - it's not difficult to get onto welfare if you know how to manipulate the system - which is what a vast majority of the issue is in this country. More are exploiting it than those who actually need it.


Rujikin wrote:
Or she couldn't move due to having a child and being unable to move very far away, or one of many other situations. However, this isn't a discussion on why she didn't move it's a discussion on who would want to work at $8/hour and apparently its people with master degrees.


"People" - sorry, but one person doesn't equate to "people". I will say that if you have a masters degree, you shouldn't have issues finding work in various fields as long as it's a section of what your degree is in. This is why I criticized her for not taking the initiative of moving - child or not if you expand your search outside of your local area when you have a degree - you'll have a higher success rate. It's basic mathematics.

On the other hand, there are people who are educated (bachelor's degree or higher) that have issues finding jobs in their field either because they picked a degree that doesn't have much of a strong job market at all (liberal arts, for example - or a plethora of other degrees that require a decent amount of experience between qualifying for a decent position) or because they're in an area that's abundant of other applicants that have the same level of education. In these cases, people ignore the idea of relocating because they don't want to be uncomfortable (showering in truck stops, using public transportation, and living on the streets until you establish yourself and get a few paychecks under your belt - like what I did) or because they're happy with their local area in general.

Personally, I've not had an issue finding work when I've expanded my search area outside of my current living area. I've moved all over the United States (even lived in London, England for almost six years) just to get a decent paying job. There was also the stint where I worked two full-time positions at two different grocery stores (stocking) and another part-time job as a cashier at another. It paid for my master's degree (I saved up and paid my tuition).

I still abide by the idea that most Americans are just scared of being uncomfortable in some way or another. So many seem to want jobs to magically pop out of the woodworks instead of going out and hunting them down. It doesn't help that those who work blue collar positions are usually living check to check - so they never save, never expand outside of what they're used to nor do they try to get better qualifications to get outside of blue collar positions. Those who need money will seek a job at any cost.
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/30/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


Rujikin wrote:
Unemployment does not give you more money than working. I've been unemployed a few times and it gives you half of what you used to make plus it only lasts for so long.


Again, it depends on the state and I was mostly speaking of welfare versus working. Unemployment depends on the state and the circumstances of your termination, too. When the company is at fault (layoffs instead of being fired/terminated), they're responsible for paying your unemployment in some situations (like the one I mentioned). But as for welfare...


Rujikin wrote:
You seem to assume welfare applies to all. I couldn't get welfare if I tried because I meet none of their requirements. I get unemployment then nothing. So $8 is indeed better than $0 because all those pretty numbers you like does not apply to me and many others.


Welfare applies for those who can get onto it. In the majority of cases that I've seen myself (I've helped enough people get on welfare in Maryland and Tennessee), it's more so about how much you've made and your circumstances. A single guy will have more problems getting on welfare than a woman with a child (this is just logic, really - dependents are important in these circumstances). "Pretty numbers" are facts - it's not difficult to get onto welfare if you know how to manipulate the system - which is what a vast majority of the issue is in this country. More are exploiting it than those who actually need it.


Rujikin wrote:
Or she couldn't move due to having a child and being unable to move very far away, or one of many other situations. However, this isn't a discussion on why she didn't move it's a discussion on who would want to work at $8/hour and apparently its people with master degrees.


"People" - sorry, but one person doesn't equate to "people". I will say that if you have a masters degree, you shouldn't have issues finding work in various fields as long as it's a section of what your degree is in. This is why I criticized her for not taking the initiative of moving - child or not if you expand your search outside of your local area when you have a degree - you'll have a higher success rate. It's basic mathematics.

On the other hand, there are people who are educated (bachelor's degree or higher) that have issues finding jobs in their field either because they picked a degree that doesn't have much of a strong job market at all (liberal arts, for example - or a plethora of other degrees that require a decent amount of experience between qualifying for a decent position) or because they're in an area that's abundant of other applicants that have the same level of education. In these cases, people ignore the idea of relocating because they don't want to be uncomfortable (showering in truck stops, using public transportation, and living on the streets until you establish yourself and get a few paychecks under your belt - like what I did) or because they're happy with their local area in general.

Personally, I've not had an issue finding work when I've expanded my search area outside of my current living area. I've moved all over the United States (even lived in London, England for almost six years) just to get a decent paying job. There was also the stint where I worked two full-time positions at two different grocery stores (stocking) and another part-time job as a cashier at another. It paid for my master's degree (I saved up and paid my tuition).

I still abide by the idea that most Americans are just scared of being uncomfortable in some way or another. So many seem to want jobs to magically pop out of the woodworks instead of going out and hunting them down. It doesn't help that those who work blue collar positions are usually living check to check - so they never save, never expand outside of what they're used to nor do they try to get better qualifications to get outside of blue collar positions. Those who need money will seek a job at any cost. a


Welfare doesnt apply to me or anyone who considers themselves useful. I'd have to fake shit or lie which is a crime that could bite me in the ass. I have no intention of becoming a welfare baby or going to jail for welfare.

Its actually hard to find jobs with a masters degree. Your too over qualified for most positions but at the same time your lacking in experience. They know you have a masters and will want paid more so they would rather get a bachelors or associates because they can typically do the same job. There exist a few exceptions to this rule but masters don't usually pay off.

So your attacking her for not moving instead of accepting that she is willing to work for $8 an hour? Classy how tolerant and accepting of you. Hah then you go onto say you worked at one of these low end jobs because you needed money. Thanks for supporting my argument.
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/30/17

ninjitsuko wrote:



So in the video - the woman may have had a masters degree but she wasn't willing to sacrifice to get a decent job using said degree - that's her problem that she's "having" to work at a $8 per hour location.


She probably didn't want to move her family across state lines. She probably didn't want to uproot them, and cause them to lose their friends. Maybe her relatives all live nearby, and she didn't want her family to be separated from the rest of her clan. There could be a whole lot of other reasons why she can't or won't uproot her family to move else where....

However, there is the other possibility. Maybe, she has been applying for jobs online, near AND far. Maybe she IS prepared to move across state lines with her kids. It's just that competition is high, and she just can't get that job... Especially moms raising kids seem to have a tougher time getting positions that a Masters degree in whatever is required. Don't know why that is, but it seems to be a thing. Fathers get the jobs, but not mothers?

There's also this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa


The H-1B is a non-immigrant visa in the United States under the Immigration and Nationality Act, section 101(a)(15)(H). It allows U.S. employers to temporarily employ foreign workers in specialty occupations.


Remember this?

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html?_r=0


While families rode the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train and searched for Nemo on clamobiles in the theme parks, these workers monitored computers in industrial buildings nearby, making sure millions of Walt Disney World ticket sales, store purchases and hotel reservations went through without a hitch. Some were performing so well that they thought they had been called in for bonuses.

Instead, about 250 Disney employees were told in late October that they would be laid off. Many of their jobs were transferred to immigrants on temporary visas for highly skilled technical workers, who were brought in by an outsourcing firm based in India. Over the next three months, some Disney employees were required to train their replacements to do the jobs they had lost.


http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article81676692.html


Companies in Charlotte are stepping up their efforts to hire foreign workers – especially for information technology jobs – under a federal visa program that’s becoming a political flashpoint.

The H-1B visa lets companies bring foreign workers to the U.S. temporarily to fill jobs requiring highly skilled labor. Employers say it helps them fill jobs that draw too few qualified applicants. Critics say some companies abuse it, replacing Americans with foreign tech workers willing to work for less.

Sometimes American IT workers are laid off after spending their final days training their foreign-born replacements.


These are just a couple of examples. This is happening to highly skilled degree holding Americans all across the United States.

Maybe she can't get a job because she's competing against H-1B visa foreign workers... We don't know what her situation really is. So, really, you can't say it's because she's unwilling to sacrifice. You don't know what she may or may not have done to get a job in her specialty.
Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/30/17
My last typed response here I have a Bachelors degree I also have a teaching degree it's not always going matter your education
its going to come down to who you know! My last 2 jobs where thru people i knew.
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/30/17

MysteryMiss wrote:

My last typed response here I have a Bachelors degree I also have a teaching degree it's not always going matter your education
its going to come down to who you know! My last 2 jobs where thru people i knew.


I really hate to say this... But I got my current job through someone I know. I spent an entire year previously searching. Got a few certs half way through, searched more. One person I knew invited me to an interview and bam awesome job.

I hate that its this way....
Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/30/17

Rujikin wrote:
Welfare doesnt apply to me or anyone who considers themselves useful. I'd have to fake shit or lie which is a crime that could bite me in the ass. I have no intention of becoming a welfare baby or going to jail for welfare.


"Anyone who considers themselves useful" - that's an interesting take. There are some people who work two part-time jobs and are still on welfare because of having a family to feed. Just like you said - "welfare doesn't apply to everyone". Those who manipulate the system are the ones that are causing domino-effect complications with those who deserve it (they work their asses off and aren't able to sustain themselves).


Rujikin wrote:
Its actually hard to find jobs with a masters degree. Your too over qualified for most positions but at the same time your lacking in experience. They know you have masters and will want paid more so they would rather get a bachelors or associates because they can typically do the same job. There exist a few exceptions to this rule but masters don't usually pay off.


This is why I only put down my master's degree on my resume that correlates to the position I'm looking for. For example, I would only put my bachelor's degree and my IT certifications if I were hunting for a development position. Though, if I were applying for a think tank that focuses on statistics or theoretical mathematics - I'd add my Master's degree (whereas I have an entirely different resume for this field).


Rujikin wrote:
So your attacking her for not moving instead of accepting that she is willing to work for $8 an hour? Classy how tolerant and accepting of you. Hah then you go onto say you worked at one of these low end jobs because you needed money. Thanks for supporting my argument.


No, I'm attacking your "because this one person wants a job that's $8 an hour and has a Master's degree then that means all people with a Master's degree will do a job for $8 per hour" logic. It's mathematically flawed. I know I'd work whatever I can and I have - which I mentioned above that I don't hold the same values as some people I know do (that they're better off living off of unemployment and welfare/disability for their entire lives).
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/30/17
No one can TAKE a job away. Managers are the ones at fault for hiring people under the table for low wages not the people looking for work.
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/30/17
Illegal immigration and H-1B abuse fuck up our labor markets, there's no two ways about it.

You have supply and demand, so when loads of people are willing to work illegally and forgo all protections afforded to regular citizens you're going to get massively falling wages. Most people want to work for a decent wage, they can't afford to compete with illegals that are willing to live ten to a single bedroom apartment with a slumlord scared to ever report anything. They are afforded no protection and thus are an easily exploited resource.

The H-1B abuse is interesting in how it's come up in recent years. If you ever see listing where software that doesn't yet exist is listed as a proficiency for a technical position, congrats, you're likely looking at an attempt to scam the government into issuing a H-1B. It used to be thought this is a HR fuck-up, but under scrutiny many have found out this actually results in significantly less to no applicants. The companies then can immediately turn around and argue they were unable to find qualified experts in the country and use it to bring in a cheaper workforce. They then use this workforce to lower wage negotiations with US workers to fill the holes they can't get remaining visas for - a programmer that should be making $50K is now fighting for a $35K job.

Throw in the collusion that's been found, the notable example of the being the silicon valley six and even skilled workers should be highly concerned about what's going on.
Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/30/17

DeadlyOats wrote:
<snip>


There are quite a lot of "potential scenarios" - I painted only one. My explanation can be summarized as "if you can paint this one person as the shining example as to why all people with a master's degree will do this job... then I will explain that it's not always the case". There are outliers that none of us know because the video only outlines a specific clip of her life: that she's decided to apply for a job that only pays $8 per hour, despite having a master's degree. As mentioned, I've been in the same situation and have done the same (back then I only had a bachelor's degree, took care of my elderly grandparents as a live-in nurse (paid only $1,000 a month) and held several "low-end" positions to make ends meet).

As for H-1B visas, the company I work for tends to hire quite a few people that are students that have just graduated from college and were on student visas. In turn, we end up sponsoring them for H-1B visas. The issue here is that I don't think you understand as to how much goes into getting an H-1B visa - especially as there's a lottery just to be considered for your visa. If you don't fit a specific level of qualification and getting the correct amount of pay based on your education - you won't be part of the lottery to begin with (like several of my colleagues that have moved back to their home countries or moved to Canada because they were only getting paid $65k a year with a Master's degree in a different field than the one they're working). Companies tend to do this to "buff their portfolio" - a company full of graduate degrees is more valuable to investors and potential buyers than one that has a bunch of employees with just a GED or high school diploma.

I do agree that H-1B abuse can be systematically an issue in most situations. Though, locally, most that I know (I have friends who are employed through H-1B visas) accept that companies tend to abuse their status (either holding it over their heads or paying them the bare minimum required for their visa).
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/30/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


DeadlyOats wrote:
<snip>


There are quite a lot of "potential scenarios" - I painted only one. My explanation can be summarized as "if you can paint this one person as the shining example as to why all people with a master's degree will do this job... then I will explain that it's not always the case". There are outliers that none of us know because the video only outlines a specific clip of her life: that she's decided to apply for a job that only pays $8 per hour, despite having a master's degree. As mentioned, I've been in the same situation and have done the same (back then I only had a bachelor's degree, took care of my elderly grandparents as a live-in nurse (paid only $1,000 a month) and held several "low-end" positions to make ends meet).

As for H-1B visas, the company I work for tends to hire quite a few people that are students that have just graduated from college and were on student visas. In turn, we end up sponsoring them for H-1B visas. The issue here is that I don't think you understand as to how much goes into getting an H-1B visa - especially as there's a lottery just to be considered for your visa. If you don't fit a specific level of qualification and getting the correct amount of pay based on your education - you won't be part of the lottery to begin with (like several of my colleagues that have moved back to their home countries or moved to Canada because they were only getting paid $65k a year with a Master's degree in a different field than the one they're working). Companies tend to do this to "buff their portfolio" - a company full of graduate degrees is more valuable to investors and potential buyers than one that has a bunch of employees with just a GED or high school diploma.

I do agree that H-1B abuse can be systematically an issue in most situations. Though, locally, most that I know (I have friends who are employed through H-1B visas) accept that companies tend to abuse their status (either holding it over their heads or paying them the bare minimum required for their visa).


Neither I, nor that reporter represented that ALL degree holders would, out of desperation take that job. Nobody said that was the case.

I never said it was easy to get the H-1B visa. None of the news stories I posted as examples said it was easy to get that visa. What I said, and what was reported, is that it is often abused by American businesses. Businesses don't care how many hurdles the H-1B visa holder had to go through to get their visa. They only care that the H-1B visa holder is highly skilled and competent at what he or she does - and that they can pay him or her tens of thousands of dollars less per year than they were paying the American that was replaced by the visa holder.

They do this to lower their costs, but it hurts Americans who are available to do the job, for the fair and just salaries. I also said, there are lots of degree holding Americans who lost their jobs, OR who can't get a job, because American companies can hire H-1B visa holders, and pay them much less than they could get away with paying an American.

I wonder why your employer doesn't hire American college students? Or why they don't hire American college graduates, who have trained for the type of work that is done at your business? This is where we get those news stories of Americans who graduated college with a degree, and several certificates under their belt, and they can't get hired.
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Ugh, really? A Sheriff Joe story from 2011?

Do you not know who Sheriff Joe is? Even putting aside that he is a despicable, inhumane racist shit bag that oversaw what the DoJ called the worst example of racial profiling in American history; He's probably cost taxpayers more in legal fees and paying out lawsuit settlements than illegal immigrates have cost his county. Also one of the foremost supporters of Birtherism.

He was voted out of office and is currently facing jail time himself for contempt of court:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/18/us/sheriff-joe-arpaio-arizona.html

As for the attempt at a story itself: Show me Americans lining up to pick fruit for 10 hours.

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