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Post Reply Ask people who lived under communism what just happened.
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 2/2/17
Due to the outrage people seem to be having over President Donald Trump's executive orders (which to me, are no-brainers) I felt inclined to share some personal experiences regarding this election and his presidency, from the people I've spoken to about it... people from the countries in the spotlight right now. People who spent the effort to become actual, legal citizens of the United States. People who see the world as it is, and not as someone who grew up with freedom and plenty.

I've spent a lot of my time talking to legal immigrants, whom I meet through my job, about who they voted for, and why they would like to see them win. A good portion of the people who came from actual dictatorships, and spent parts of their childhood in concentration camps - voted Trump. In fact, I can't recall even one who did not.

Again, I've heard this from legal immigrants (i.e. people who earned their right to be American, and are proud to be, and want to live here, and prosper) from the following countries - Sudan, Russia, Cuba, China, Korea, Syria, and Iran. They took the citizenship test, they immigrated to our country via the legitimate channels, not via border hopping, and the take I've gotten from them has been absolutely unanimous. They are TERRIFIED at what is happening to this country. They are terrified that so many Americans don't seem to realize what's going on - something they have seen for the majority of their lives.

They tell me that even the Americans who are "in the know", often don't seem to actually realize what just happened / is happening in this country, and just how big and consequential it is. They've told me it's amazing to them how the average American can have such an opinion on current matters but don't realize what any of it actually means for them. They don't know what fascism is, they don't know what socialism is - in fact, most of them have not even googled those words for a definition. They go around calling the very people who are standing up for their freedoms these things, and it echoes groups like Black Lives Matter - "who are fighting FOR segregation in the name of equality." I've said that multiple times, and that phrase comes as a direct quote from a man from Sudan that I speak to about politics about once a week. To the people I've talked to, it's very obvious that their opinions are being manipulated because they have not actually formed opinions of their own. They base it on skin-deep virtue judgments and fail to think about what they support will actually mean for them and how it will change their lives.

The people, at least that I've spoken to, who immigrated to the United States from these countries, do understand what happens when your lives are federalized by your government (and alternatively what happens when anarchy reigns, both are very bad). People in the US think it means freebies, it means having a helping hand at least - and don't quite get that when an entity knows it has absolute power, the VERY LAST thing on their mind is taking care of you. Some of the things in the works (like children not belonging to the family, but to the state) literally, down the road, and maybe not even in the too distant future, will make things like the couple from Cuba I talked to went through a reality and commonplace here in America.

This couple grew up in Cuba in the 70's. To work in a factory / and then in fields, they were taken from their parents at the ages of 10 and 11 and forced to be away from them for 6 months, never being given an explanation or assurance that they'd ever see their parents again. Their parents were in the same situation - and they could see the precursor to this coming from miles away, because they grew up under those kinds of laws. The average American lives too comfortably and can't IMAGINE that something like that could happen here, regardless of laws passed, because it's so in conflict with their own reality and everything they've known - they may be aware of the problem in the works, but because it's such a departure from what they've experienced in their lives, they just dismiss it as nonsense. This is called cognitive dissonance. Basically, they can't figure out what's true or likely anymore, and so they're internally conflicted and as a result tend to blind themselves, of their own will, to the worst case scenario.

People need to think - what do the power hungry want? What is most convenient for them, should they be in control? That is your worst case scenario, or right near it. That should make the inevitable outcome of our freedoms being taken away in the name of fairness and political correctness and all that other crap very obvious, and that worst case scenario should actually look probable. It does to me, and it does to people who have actually lived under systems like are trying to be created here.

Meanwhile, because some of what he has to say is unpleasant to hear (because reality IS unpleasant, and the world is a vile, violent place) people are obstinately fighting the people who are actually standing up for their rights, and preserving the constitution (which was written to protect our God-given rights, as human beings, from the government) - they're actually fighting for their rights to be taken away because some propaganda told them it's "for the best".

So closing borders = racist. Temporarily banning and vetting people from terrorist producing countries that typically HATE THE UNITED STATES is unfair? Do you think THEY give a shit about what's fair? Do any extremists who commit violent acts think "this is only fair" before they do it? Maybe they do, but most of them also tend to believe in a book written by a guy who committed every crime / sin under the sun, and justified it by saying "god said it was ok, so it's cool", a book that not only condones killing people who don't believe in it, but even provides instruction on how to do so. I'm not going to get further into the subject of Islam because that would take such an enormous amount of space in this post, and time I'm not willing to spend right now, except to say that it should be obvious what is right and what is wrong in most cases. Moral ambiguity is a joke of a belief, and most of the people who do bad things under a belief system that skews right and wrong / good and evil, know deep down that what they're doing is bad - there's no way they don't. Even people in war-torn countries know damn well that it causes nothing but pain and hardship when they kill, or are killed.

All I'm saying is this outrage over what Trump is doing - much of which has been done at some point by other presidents of the USA - is completely off base. People have short memories, and so they forget that we have not always had open borders, in fact we've only had open borders ... under Obama's regime. The same Obama who was giving hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to insurgency producing countries as handouts - the same Obama who took every single step he possibly could get away with, to hamstring our new president and his ability to get anything done, before leaving office. Maybe it's not for me to say, but that is NOT what the president of a country should be doing to the country. He had the opposite of our best interests in mind - and it's clear whose interests he does have in mind - the people we've been "fighting" all along.

That was the plan all along too - there's audio of John Kerry (courtesy of wiki-leaks) explaining how their intent was to propagate insurgency in the middle east by supporting groups like Al-Qaeda / ISIL / ISIS with equipment, food, and finances, so that they can overthrow the LEGITIMATE governments in the middle east that are inconvenient for us, like Assad's Syria. There is a clip of the full audio on youtube, if you think this was some edited piece of audio - but for now I'm only linking the snippets where he says the worst of it because I don't think most people on here want to listen to something longer than 2 minutes. Enjoy the treason and war crimes, listen to the audio. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdVa5qoh_80 I highly suggest you go listen to the full audio - because it makes the context very clear and actually makes this more disturbing and indisputable.

So you don't like war? Too bad, it's already ongoing, and has been, and there's no way out but to fight now, thanks to Obama. So you don't think having borders is fair? Go ask any other country on this planet their feelings on that subject, I have a feeling you'd be shot down before getting into theirs to ask them, haha.

I just want people to calm down and start thinking about what this all means and why these actions are being taken. Just because you don't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and sometimes to see those things you have to look into them, and you have to talk to people about them, people from those places who know exactly what's going on. Us Americans are not given the honest story, never, EVER given the honest story by the mainstream and they're proving that themselves at every turn.

If you desire an enemy so badly that you need to pile on motives for everything Trump does, whose actual motives have been spelled out to you from the start - maybe you should pick your actual enemies. If you don't want your freedoms anymore, and you think someone is going to take care of you, you should move to a dictatorship, because America isn't your country.

I'd rather fight and die for my freedom, than bend over, get ass-raped by a billionaire, make a fool of myself standing up for something I have no actual take on or knowledge of, and then thrown away like trash because I submitted my power and rights to them. Thanks for reading, sorry if it was all over the place, I just woke up and wanted to share how little sense blind opposition makes in light of the current situation in the world, and how scary it is that the majority of us are so blind to it.

Here's a good quote I heard from a Syrian being interviewed that I'll end this with. Syrian: "What is a moderate rebel? there is no such thing"
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/31/17
Whoa, this is a lot of text. Although you and your friends using the term socialism loosely. There were many movements, primarily in the muckraking 30s and the communism and fascism we saw abroad. Depending on the place, I'd say people like Bernie are more akin to the likes of Jacon Riis than Stalin and Pol Pot.

My parent fled the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, and even then Hun Sen is reportedly ruling with an iron fist, but I would not say they are more the wiser than anyone else on the basis of their immigration.

Of course, you are completely right when you say Americans literally have no clue on the definition of dictators and fascism or how ridiculous the Hitler Trump comparison is to an extent. I for one traveled abroad and while I generally respect soldiers and police, Vietnam and Cambodia are full of corrupt officials.
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/31/17
The worst part of this wall of text is given everything that's happening its genuinely difficult to tell which side you're arguing from paragraph to paragraph.

Dragon
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/30/17
I mean.. after a bit I started skimming, but I do agree with something you said at the end - basically, Trump is doing exactly what he promised.. at least in this regard. Block people, yes. Total 180 on the Hilary for Prison thing, and his idea of draining the swamp (in regards to career politicians, influence peddlers, and Goldman Sachs and such) seems to have been to drain it directly into his cabinet and advisor positions.

However... look at the list of countries he's putting a temporary block on due to terrorism. Look at the list of countries that have caused the deaths of Americans due to terrorist attacks. Notice the complete lack of overlap. Now look at the list of countries excluded from the list, and the countries included in Trump business interests. Notice a Venn Diagram circle.

Of course, it's been pointed out that they got at least part of the list of countries from Obama. Which, well, I was told Obama was what was wrong (including by you, above), so why are they taking cues from him?

I also agree that some people want an enemy so badly they'll invent one to rile people up. Say.. talking up border walls, putting political opponents in jail, or barring refugees because they might be terrorists.

But, one big thing here, and I can't stress this enough - I don't trust YouTube for my news, sorry. Nor do our Constitutional rights come from any god. They kinda left that out on purpose.
Posted 1/30/17

runec wrote:

The worst part of this wall of text is given everything that's happening its genuinely difficult to tell which side you're arguing from paragraph to paragraph.



^
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/31/17

runec wrote:The worst part of this wall of text is given everything that's happening its genuinely difficult to tell which side you're arguing from paragraph to paragraph.

you could say this on literally any long post in which you have no interest in reading it fully.
by the way, if one dislikes the Democrat party, it doesn't mean that they necessarily support the Republican party, and vice-versa.
the world is not black-and-white, but shades of gray.
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/31/17

namealreadytaken wrote:
you could say this on literally any long post in which you have no interest in reading it fully.
by the way, if one dislikes the Democrat party, it doesn't mean that they necessarily support the Republican party, and vice-versa.
the world is not black-and-white, but shades of gray.


You're telling the wrong person and I am not even American to begin with.
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/31/17
I don't really understand the relevance of this topic. Although I applaud the effort you put in by typing such a massive wall of text. Bravo!
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/31/17
Is this a Rorschach test but with words instead of ink ?
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/31/17
Hey OP put this in your post.

This guy had to suffer through communism unlike these spoiled wannabe communists. He has more knowledge about what real communism than any of you: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N1ABw6IMKn0
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Posted 1/30/17
This is relevant:

She's a pretty good speaker, and she laid out a convincing argument against the national socialization of our country, under the Obama Administration (but which I argue the ground work had been laid out under the three previous administrations, Bush Sr., Clinton, Bush Jr.).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-awkYhtey50

She mentioned the Gestapo, the German secret police, but she failed to mention the Patriot Act, and the NSA spying on Americans, and how our government, through the Department of Homeland Security, is more and more tracking Americans and monitoring our activities, whether or not we have committed crimes.

You can add to her list of things our government has done that compares to what happened back in NAZI Germany, and that is the very last thing the Republican and Democratic Congress men and women passed, and which Obama signed. That is HR-5181. The creation of a new government agency that will decide what is fake and what is real news. The Ministry of Truth, as it's being called.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-24/obama-signs-countering-disinformation-and-propaganda-act-law
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Posted 1/30/17

Rujikin wrote:

Hey OP put this in your post.

This guy had to suffer through communism unlike these spoiled wannabe communists. He has more knowledge about what real communism than any of you: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N1ABw6IMKn0


Even if we disagree on what socialism means, I think what a lot of people/millenials truly mean is social welfare reform rather than a command Economy with power centralized in a completely transparent democracy, hence my reference on Sanders as having more to do with the reform beginning in the 20s than what Marx wrote.

I do not think such an idea is bad, but that is just me.

I just want to clarify what I perceive what they mean by "socialism". I honestly have never met a lot of people who say they are straight up communist, even in my home country.
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Posted 1/30/17

DeadlyOats wrote:That is HR-5181. The creation of a new government agency that will decide what is fake and what is real news. The Ministry of Truth, as it's being called.

can you give me a credible source in which it confirms that the bill was indeed signed and became Law?
all information on Google that claims to have been signed seems to come from ultra-right leaning news source.
the official Congress page claims it was only introduced to the House, way back in May of last year.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/5181/actions?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22hr+5181%22%5D%7D&r=1
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/30/17
I guess the historical refugees and people who were held in concentration camps in American soil voted for trump
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Posted 1/30/17 , edited 1/30/17

namealreadytaken wrote:


DeadlyOats wrote:That is HR-5181. The creation of a new government agency that will decide what is fake and what is real news. The Ministry of Truth, as it's being called.

can you give me a credible source in which it confirms that the bill was indeed signed and became Law?
all information on Google that claims to have been signed seems to come from ultra-right leaning news source.
the official Congress page claims it was only introduced to the House, way back in May of last year.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/5181/actions?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22hr+5181%22%5D%7D&r=1


There you go again.... Discrediting a news story based on who reported it. That's what CNN does. CNN also, choses not to report, or under report news that they see as harmful to the Left's agenda.

This will effectively allow the government to decide what is truth, and not truth.

You won't believe it, because a news source that does not support your agenda reported it. And I'm mystified that CNN, FOX, NBC, NY Times, LA Times, etc etc etc, have kept quiet about it.

So, here it is, from the horse's mouth.

http://www.portman.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=F973E46B-AA8C-4F3E-91B4-8EC0FC7F2F3E


“Our enemies are using foreign propaganda and disinformation against us and our allies, and so far the U.S. government has been asleep at the wheel,” Portman said. “But today, the United States has taken a critical step towards confronting the extensive, and destabilizing, foreign propaganda and disinformation operations being waged against us by our enemies overseas. With this bill now law, we are finally signaling that enough is enough; the United States will no longer sit on the sidelines. We are going to confront this threat head-on. I am confident that, with the help of this bipartisan bill, the disinformation and propaganda used against us, our allies, and our interests will fail.”


Our enemies have propagana'd against us! Now it's our turn to propaganda them!


“The use of propaganda to undermine democracy has hit a new low. But now we are finally in a position to confront this threat head on and get out the truth. By building up independent, objective journalism in places like eastern Europe, we can start to fight back by exposing these fake narratives and empowering local communities to protect themselves,” said Murphy. “I’m proud that our bill was signed into law, and I look forward to working with Senator Portman to make sure these tools and new resources are effectively used to get out the truth.”


We're gonna tell the "real truth" and point out the "fake truth."
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