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Ask people who lived under communism what just happened.
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Posted 1/30/17
I read the whole post. I'm going to start off by saying I don't agree with everything you say, but I'm not going to get into specifics or ague them.

I wholeheartedly believe in your main point that we shouldn't be willing to sacrifice our liberties for the sake of a greater good will. What is good will now can be a tool for abuse in the future.

I am quite frankly disturbed by the kind of attitude displayed by Americans when the subject of encryption pops up. They do not realize what they take for granted now, their privacy, protects them from abusive leadership. Just because they don't do anything illegal or morally wrong doesn't mean they shouldn't care. What is correct today may not be correct ideas under tomorrows leadership. We should NOT stand by and give the government the means to police thoughts. The same logic should apply to the fake news outrage... we should not allow an authority to determine what is and isn't considered authentic.

It will protect us from terrorists and other foreign boogeymen one day and the next it will be used to determine our "Social Credit" and how "good" an American we are.

I am NOT arguing against socialism. I feel I must stress that. In a future with widespread automation I don't think we can trust corporate interests to keep the money flowing. We should, however, be very selective in what powers we allow the government to take. In our rush to a better future we must ensure that the tools of abuse are not in place.

Snowden, like it or not was a hero who sacrificed his American rights to protect ours. He was met with a collective "sigh" and called a traitor. Neither the Obama administration nor the Trump administration is willing to admit that, and the fault lies on us. If only he was a non-white expired immigrant, then maybe the outrage would have been there hmm?
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32 / M / North Dakota
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Posted 1/31/17 , edited 1/31/17

runec wrote:

The worst part of this wall of text is given everything that's happening its genuinely difficult to tell which side you're arguing from paragraph to paragraph.



Why should I pick a side? I don't align myself with the left or right... partisans are not really my thing, regardless of which one I have more in common with. I am simply expressing my opinion on the crazy kids in this country and the disturbing lack of perspective. Fortunately - some DO have some semblance of perspective... which is why we see change happening for the first time in decades. One thing I'll never do is blindly stand up for something just because people who share my other opinions support them. ...which is why I say the whole partisan / choosing a side thing is fatally flawed. Doesn't that contradict the concept of democracy?

Honestly, I just felt the need to express what I've taken from the last few months after reading a bunch of nonsense about Nazi's and fake-fascism, rather than actually address people's specifics, since I know it would get me nowhere anyway. So I came here and started typing.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:
My parent fled the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, and even then Hun Sen is reportedly ruling with an iron fist, but I would not say they are more the wiser than anyone else on the basis of their immigration.


Yeah, maybe not in such a broad sense - but I bet they know quite a bit more about dictatorships and that iron fist. That's why their opinion stands out to me so much - I didn't live through anything close to that, and neither did anyone I know. The people I talked to had very strong feelings about people immigrating here legally, and they seemed to take it much more seriously and stress it's importance than most Americans I've talked to... even the right-wingers


MakotoKamui wrote:

I mean.. after a bit I started skimming, but I do agree with something you said at the end - basically, Trump is doing exactly what he promised.. at least in this regard. Block people, yes. Total 180 on the Hilary for Prison thing, and his idea of draining the swamp (in regards to career politicians, influence peddlers, and Goldman Sachs and such) seems to have been to drain it directly into his cabinet and advisor positions.

However... look at the list of countries he's putting a temporary block on due to terrorism. Look at the list of countries that have caused the deaths of Americans due to terrorist attacks. Notice the complete lack of overlap. Now look at the list of countries excluded from the list, and the countries included in Trump business interests. Notice a Venn Diagram circle.


Well, two things. One - Hillary did not get a pardon. Plans to indict her and investigations are in the works. Just watch, and get some popcorn ready. There are priorities that take precedence over her, and thankfully our new leaders recognize that. He hasn't gone the other direction - he's using them, and if they don't work for him I imagine he's already got a plan to use that to his advantage as well. He's shut down, so far, every attempt hinder him. I'm actually quite impressed with his performance and his disregard for lobbyists and the like. I had hopes for him, but I didn't expect him to be so aggressive and deliver the way he is.

Two - as you mentioned, the countries he temporarily blocked travel from were from a draft that Obama wrote - that's the big joke here. People are freaking out, calling him all this stuff - and it was Obama who made the list, because he knew precisely what was going on years ago - and did nothing (aside from funding terrorist cells in said countries). From what I understand the list has only a single addition, that being Syria, to what Obama had drawn up.

The fact that Saudi Arabia is not on the list is because we have a lot more intel on their terrorist activity than we do these others. I get the feeling Saudi Arabia was left out on purpose... but that's just my suspicion, I guess.

It seems like Trump keeps baiting his opponents with his every move - waiting for them to try to make something of it so he can turn it around on them. It's happened numerous times already and I can't help but think it's intentional and he's actually one hell of a tactician. Travel ban is racist? - Obama made the list. He's done this in several ways already, basically baiting the media into biting and trying to impulsively label him, only to turn it around on them. I feel like none of that is coincidental, not with this guy, heh.

GreatLordBalzak - you may not agree with everything I said, but I agree with everything you said, haha...
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21 / M / Oppai Hell
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Posted 1/31/17

VeggyZ wrote:


runec wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:
My parent fled the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, and even then Hun Sen is reportedly ruling with an iron fist, but I would not say they are more the wiser than anyone else on the basis of their immigration.


Yeah, maybe not in such a broad sense - but I bet they know quite a bit more about dictatorships and that iron fist. That's why their opinion stands out to me so much - I didn't live through anything close to that, and neither did anyone I know. The people I talked to had very strong feelings about people immigrating here legally, and they seemed to take it much more seriously and stress it's importance than most Americans I've talked to... even the right-wingers



My mom is well educated for a Cambodian, studying at a University, but my dad much less so. In fact, a lot of these people fleeing regimes can be undereducated as a result of whatever dictatorship they happen to be running away from. Some of them are intellectuals, some are just farmers who got on the bad side of their leader and just have a vendetta. In any case, I notice an air of superiority between us and them, mainly because previous generations are afraid of being associated with the "bad" people. In any case, I am "against" illegal immigration and believe in strict checks, but I wouldn't advocate an intentional means to suppress all foreigners coming if that is what some of them are aiming for, and I do not support such a ban for a period of time, especially considering how sloppily put together it was.

If it is just extensive background checks that approach a reasonable scrutiny and the enforcing of sensible laws? I do not understand why it would be a surprise. Is it because a lot of immigrants are viewed as supporting this due to a stereotype?

Ironically, there are a great deal of Hispanics and Cuban who tend to vote Republican. (Although the Trump vote seems to be slumping among most of the people who I know to be Republican)


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Posted 2/1/17

namealreadytaken wrote:


DeadlyOats wrote:That is HR-5181. The creation of a new government agency that will decide what is fake and what is real news. The Ministry of Truth, as it's being called.

can you give me a credible source in which it confirms that the bill was indeed signed and became Law?
all information on Google that claims to have been signed seems to come from ultra-right leaning news source.
the official Congress page claims it was only introduced to the House, way back in May of last year.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/5181/actions?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22hr+5181%22%5D%7D&r=1


It was added as part of the annual NDAA that they need to get passed every year that they always love sneaking goodies into...
Dushan 
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M / Ontario
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Posted 2/1/17 , edited 2/1/17
Didnt read your whole thing, but I feel the point willl be lost either way. No one living, has lived under true Communisim. True Communisim is a dream that unfortunatly will be near impossible to work. You can ask how it is to live under a dictator communist regim, or extream socialism, but no Communisim as of yet.
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21 / M / Bundaberg, Queens...
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Posted 2/1/17
I love how Americans hate socialism so much that any socialist idea is a bad idea.

My country is good in the fact that it takes some of the good ideas from socialism.
runec 
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Posted 2/1/17

Ryulightorb wrote:
I love how Americans hate socialism so much that any socialist idea is a bad idea.

My country is good in the fact that it takes some of the good ideas from socialism.


Well, the problem is a decent chunk of them have no idea what socialism actually is. Even as they receive it.


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28 / F / SC
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Posted 2/1/17

runec wrote:


namealreadytaken wrote:
you could say this on literally any long post in which you have no interest in reading it fully.
by the way, if one dislikes the Democrat party, it doesn't mean that they necessarily support the Republican party, and vice-versa.
the world is not black-and-white, but shades of gray.


You're telling the wrong person and I am not even American to begin with.


i've thought this before, but you sure argue an awful lot and get awfully ugly about American politics for someone who isn't American

not saying ya can't but... idk man ... maybe just chill
runec 
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Posted 2/1/17

Sogno- wrote:
i've thought this before, but you sure argue an awful lot and get awfully ugly about American politics for someone who isn't American

not saying ya can't but... idk man ... maybe just chill


And as I said before American politics affects everyone. Watching it from the outside in is in some ways more frustrating than watching it from the inside. Especially over the course of the last year.

Also, in my defense, please turn your attention to what is starting the arguments with me and how they are being started. I'm not sure there's one person that regularly starts up with me that hasn't been banned at least 3 or 4 times already. It's not like I'm getting snarky for no reason in the middle of nuanced, intellectual discussions over tea.


Posted 2/1/17
I'm fully against communism and support capitalism.
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Posted 2/1/17

runec wrote:


Sogno- wrote:
i've thought this before, but you sure argue an awful lot and get awfully ugly about American politics for someone who isn't American

not saying ya can't but... idk man ... maybe just chill


And as I said before American politics affects everyone. Watching it from the outside in is in some ways more frustrating than watching it from the inside. Especially over the course of the last year.

Also, in my defense, please turn your attention to what is starting the arguments with me and how they are being started. I'm not sure there's one person that regularly starts up with me that hasn't been banned at least 3 or 4 times already. It's not like I'm getting snarky for no reason in the middle of nuanced, intellectual discussions over tea.




An, intellectual discussions over tea, like at UC Berkley this night? With flaming trailer bonfire and broken glass.
runec 
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Posted 2/1/17

Jamming777 wrote:
An, intellectual discussions over tea, like at UC Berkley this night? With flaming trailer bonfire and broken glass.


Er, cool story bro?


mxdan 
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27 / M / A Husk.
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Posted 2/1/17

Sogno- wrote:
i've thought this before, but you sure argue an awful lot and get awfully ugly about American politics for someone who isn't American

not saying ya can't but... idk man ... maybe just chill


Another Tribalist! :

For someone who calls themselves an American you sure do have an un-American view about how how foreigners should conduct free speech.
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Posted 2/1/17

runec wrote:


Jamming777 wrote:
An, intellectual discussions over tea, like at UC Berkley this night? With flaming trailer bonfire and broken glass.


Er, cool story bro?




Just the TV News tonight..... http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us/milo-yiannopoulos-berkeley/index.html
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37 / M / Small Wooded town...
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Posted 2/1/17

Jamming777 wrote:


runec wrote:


Jamming777 wrote:
An, intellectual discussions over tea, like at UC Berkley this night? With flaming trailer bonfire and broken glass.


Er, cool story bro?




Just the TV News tonight..... http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us/milo-yiannopoulos-berkeley/index.html


start taking them to jail. Those kids are attacking other peoples rights to free speech, and to peacefully gather. Its time they relies they are not special.


I bet $100.00 that the kids doing this would be all in tears crying for their mommies, if they had to sit in jail with real criminals for a week.
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