First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  Next  Last
Post Reply Why do people have a problem with healthcare being a right?
3222 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
19 / F
Offline
Posted 2/2/17
Yet we cry over veterans who shoot up schools or malls or fucking nightclubs and call them terrorist.

If they actually got the god damn healthcare they needed, this shit wouldn't have happen, but humanity is full of sins and no matter how much we claim that we're good people, in the end we're not.

Yeah sure, there's people with huge empathy. But now long will that last? And if that does last, will they still be the same way if they lived somewhere... oh I don't know... not developed? That would certainly be an interesting topic.

What i'm saying is: free healthcare=help for people with mental illnesses and prevent them from killing others (does not apply to everyone with mental illnesses, but I hope you know what i'm trying to say).
218 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
30 / M
Offline
Posted 2/2/17
Meanwhile, in Canada...

I haven't had a doctor for 10 years, when mine retired. I've been on a waiting list for years, as are a huge amount of people (I believe in Quebec, approx 27% of people don't have one). I run a small business and by the time the gov. takes its share, I barely have any money left after paying bills. Certainly not enough to afford going private for my health issues. No health benefits either because I'm self employed.

My cousin's ex lives just a few streets over, in a shadier part of town. He doesn't work, nor does his father and sister. They are on wellfare you see. His family doctor didn't retire, so he's alllll good. He has proper access to health care, while I don't.
He also sells weed and lives with his family, so he's actually got more money than I do at the end of the month. All new game consoles and big new TV, goes out every week burning money on alcohol.

Seems fair to me.
And this is the system most Americans point to in favor of healthcare.

Socialism in a nutshell. I want everyone to be happy and live in a reasonable amount of comfort, as would any decent human being.
But every benevolent system you could think of, can and will be abused by leeches.
Create enough social support programs and you reach a point where it is more beneficial for the individual to NOT work, and use as many programs as possible, rather than work 40 hours at minimum wage or thereabouts.
I remember my accountant telling me that someone is better off making 25K a year and making full use of tax returns and all that, than making 30K+ and losing those benefits. She told me unless you could jump up to around 40K a year, you literally would end up with less. That's ridiculous and it de-incentivizes working hard at lower wages.
8829 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / M / Ark-La-Tex
Offline
Posted 2/2/17
The government's primary purpose is to protect its citizens. If people are dying from diseases that would otherwise be prevented with easily accessible healthcare, the government is not doing its job.
42861 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 2/2/17

ninjitsuko wrote:

To paraphrase most arguments against it:

"I work and I don't want my money going to someone who doesn't."


The indefensible part about this argument is that, at least in the US, we have laws in place that prevent hospitals from denying service to people. Things such as indigent care and the like are a conscious choice by society to acknowledge a responsibility to provide care for those who cannot otherwise afford it. As a result those who buy insurance are already paying for those costs since the money lost in those cases are passed along to those who are able to pay.

It is well documented in other countries that provide universal healthcare as well as price controls that quality of care remains high while simultaneously keeping costs under control. Those who espouse "I work and I don't want my money going to someone who doesn't" are effectively shooting themselves in the foot because it means their costs are higher than they would otherwise be.
48108 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M
Offline
Posted 2/2/17 , edited 2/3/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I would say the Government has a duty to you as much as it has a duty to us. I do not think things are dire enough for me to stop paying taxes.


The wrong with North Korea definitely is not the taxes, if you can call it that.


Well, it seems to me that they couldn't do what they do without funding, but I understand what you mean, and I don't entirely disagree.
385 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 2/2/17 , edited 2/2/17

Ryulightorb wrote:

Where i live it is a right and i always find it funny when people say it shouldn't or can't be a right.

I get its to do with the whole Capatalism > Socialism thing but why do you care if some other country has healthcare as a right?

I see people like the thread that was just closed going on how its not a right anywhere ...well it is and if you don't like it why just not goto countries where it is a right and not force others to go along with "Healthcare can't be a right"

Sorry just wanted to say this as i am SICK of seeing people say it.



In my case it's a question of Freedom, if healthcare is a right, then those who provide it cannot be free people. To declare healthcare a right requires that someone else , under penalty of law do something for you. You have no true right to claim any part of another person's life without their consent.
22322 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / Oppai Hell
Online
Posted 2/2/17

theYchromosome wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I would say the Government has a duty to you as much as it has a duty to us. I do not think things are dire enough for me to stop paying taxes.


The wrong with North Korea definitely is not the taxes, if you can call it that.


Well, it seems to me that they couldn't do what they do without funding, but I understand what you mean, and I don't entirely disagree.


It seems to me more slave labor than taxes, since you can tax what does not essentially exist, but I get your argument.
37371 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
32 / M / Bellingham WA, USA
Offline
Posted 2/2/17
I don't know. For having such an apparently awful and inhumane system, we still get a hell of a lot of Canadians coming down here for specialized care...

The world isn't black and white. And government run healthcare vs private is not necessarily a tale of good versus evil. More like bloated inefficiency vs greed.
35333 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 2/2/17

domvina wrote:
The indefensible part about this argument is that, at least in the US, we have laws in place that prevent hospitals from denying service to people.


^ That. That's the kicker. The system won't let someone die in the streets but it has no problem letting them reach the point where they are dying in the streets. Which is far far more expensive then simply having universal and thus preventative care in the first place. It doesn't make sense morally or financially.

You don't want $10 of your tax money going to someone else's healthcare but its okay if $100 of your tax money goes to having to treat them in the ER? -.-
42861 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 2/2/17

Balzack wrote:
I don't know. For having such an apparently awful and inhumane system, we still get a hell of a lot of Canadians coming down here for specialized care...


We also have a heck of a lot of American "medical tourists" leaving the country for routine care and surgeries because even with travel costs factored in they are significantly less expensive yet equally safe to do abroad.

Specialized care is an outlier which is why it's called "specialized". There are Americans who leave the US for "specialized care" because it isn't FDA approved even though it's deemed safe by dozens of industrialized countries and shown to be with years of practical use.
Posted 2/2/17
Here you go some info for parents get your children vaccinated to prevent disease from spreading.
common sense.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/vaccines/
gsm642 
1872 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
37 / M / Shanghai China
Offline
Posted 2/2/17
because I haven't been sick in 10+ years and if I get cancer I am refusing treatment. Why should I waste money on stuff I don't need or care about
10960 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
20 / M / Winnipeg, MB.
Online
Posted 2/2/17

Tyrconnell wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:

Where i live it is a right and i always find it funny when people say it shouldn't or can't be a right.

I get its to do with the whole Capatalism > Socialism thing but why do you care if some other country has healthcare as a right?

I see people like the thread that was just closed going on how its not a right anywhere ...well it is and if you don't like it why just not goto countries where it is a right and not force others to go along with "Healthcare can't be a right"

Sorry just wanted to say this as i am SICK of seeing people say it.



In my case it's a question of Freedom, if healthcare is a right, then those who provide it cannot be free people. To declare healthcare a right requires that someone else , under penalty of law do something for you. You have no true right to claim any part of another person's life without their consent.


Are you living in a country with socialized healthcare? If so, then that is your consent.
19862 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
37 / M / Small Wooded town...
Offline
Posted 2/2/17

ninjitsuko wrote:

To paraphrase most arguments against it:

"I work and I don't want my money going to someone who doesn't."


to fix your wording! " I don't want my money going to people capable of working but don't because it easer to manipulate the system, People who can't work is another story. If you hurt your back you can still work, their are desk jobs. " and Pay your own health care. "
1692 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
34 / M
Offline
Posted 2/2/17 , edited 2/2/17

theYchromosome wrote:


ninjitsuko wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:
Which i think is a poor argument myself.


Oh, I agree.
If I look at how much taxes I pay compared to most of the people on this forum, I'm sure that I'm throwing more into what could be a single-pay/unified healthcare system. It's just that most people are too fixated on the idea that money they pay to the government is "theirs". It no longer becomes "their money" the moment the government takes it out of your wages.


You mean, just like how it's no longer "your television" the moment someone breaks into your house and takes it?



No Like we all gathered together long ago and created a society. Part of that is a government we agree to pay for . You don't want to fine move to somewhere like Somaila where the government is powerless and everyone "free". You can move to the forest live in a cave and survive off the land. But if you want to Stay as part of Society and reap the benefits of all our collective efforts you must help support that Society.

This is what people don't get, And why I dislike the far right-wing they have the greatest entitlement complex of any one group. They believe they are owed all the benefits of living in a society that has been built and maintained by us all without having to pay any cost.


First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.