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Post Reply An Argument That Bothers Me Greatly. (The Great Wall Movie)
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Posted 2/13/17
Jet Li would be another one that you missed off that list.

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Posted 2/13/17 , edited 2/13/17

uncletim wrote:

be honest though oct how many of those other then Jackie Chan and maybe Lucy Liu (is she still alive?) could be considered house hold names? How many would put butts in the seats?


Well Pacific Rim was huge so Kikuchi is good for it and Donnie Yen has not only starred in pretty much all the current kung fu movies that have been big here, he was a selling name for the most recent star wars movie.

Ming Na-Wen stars in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. one of the most successful shows running on tv right now and John Cho has starred in not one but two huge movie trilogies recently while Michelle Yeoh is at least big enough to get her own netflix original movie.

Maybe you don't watch that many movies or tv shows but I can guarabtee you if you did you would definitely see enough star power to cast in a summer blockbuster, let alone a fucking February release.

And of course Lucy Liu is still alive. She's as old as you are, dude.
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Posted 2/13/17

Silentveil wrote:

Jet Li would be another one that you missed off that list.



Ah, excellent point. I'm personally not a fan but I cannot deny that he sells tickets.
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Posted 2/13/17

Lockgor wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


What do you think?




I think its a movie. Its merits determined by its quality, and not by the races of its characters.

As an aside, the project seems to be as much a Chinese production as it is Hollywood; and, I would assume the primary audience was China given its release schedule and the difference in market size between China and the US.


Ah, but the thing is, this speaks volumes of the racial politics surrounding Hollywood and newly minted actors. In any case, I should be honest and say that I do see race.

If I was watching a movie about China for the umpteenth time, only to be confronted by yet another white actor, regardless of the historical context, it just gets boring, knowing America is so much more capable of being diverse. Hence my anger at another argument

"But AOT has Asian actors playing white people! That's racists too!"

Fucking no. First off, it is not a US movie, with far less budget, in a country overwhelmingly populated by one or two ethnicites. So....duh?

But back to the point I was making, appearances do in fact do a great deal for me, and both age and race are the most noticeable factors. I am not sure if I should see it or if I am wrong for doing so. I want to say I consider only acting ability, but I cannot honestly declare that. Perhaps I am racist. Or maybe I am representing the realist majority that is too afraid to say it.
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Posted 2/13/17

octorockandroll wrote:


runec wrote:


uncletim wrote:
to be honest though big stars bring in big draws and there just not enough big Asian stars


And that's also the kicker, ain't it?

Not enough big Asian stars > We can't cast an Asian in the role > Not enough big Asian stars. Kind of a self perpetuating problem.


I'm calling major bullshit on the "not enough asian stars" thing.

Donnie Yen, Jackie Chan, Ming Na-Wen, John Cho, Lucy Liu, Rinko Kikuchi and those are just the ones I know off the top of my head.

Edit: I forgot Michelle Yeoh, fuck!


None of those actors are really capable in my opinion. I rather have Damon. Mainly because Damon has aged pretty well compared to most of them, and at has a more accomplished repertoire. I share your feelings though.
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Posted 2/13/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:

I'm calling major bullshit on the "not enough asian stars" thing.

Donnie Yen, Jackie Chan, Ming Na-Wen, John Cho, Lucy Liu, Rinko Kikuchi and those are just the ones I know off the top of my head.

Edit: I forgot Michelle Yeoh, fuck!


None of those actors are really capable in my opinion. I rather have Damon. Mainly because Damon has aged pretty well compared to most of them, and at has a more accomplished repertoire. I share your feelings though.


Matt Damon has aged better than Rinko kikuchi, John Cho and Donnie Yen?

If you say so, I guess.
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Posted 2/13/17

octorockandroll wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:

I'm calling major bullshit on the "not enough asian stars" thing.

Donnie Yen, Jackie Chan, Ming Na-Wen, John Cho, Lucy Liu, Rinko Kikuchi and those are just the ones I know off the top of my head.

Edit: I forgot Michelle Yeoh, fuck!


None of those actors are really capable in my opinion. I rather have Damon. Mainly because Damon has aged pretty well compared to most of them, and at has a more accomplished repertoire. I share your feelings though.


Matt Damon has aged better than Rinko kikuchi, John Cho and Donnie Yen?

If you say so, I guess.


For some odd reason I read that as Chow Yun Fat and ignored the other two. I apologize.
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Posted 2/13/17 , edited 2/13/17

runec wrote:

But therein lays the kicker, doesn't it? Chinese director, Chinese setting, Chinese history, the single most famous Chinese monument, Chinese people walk into it thinking "Finally, we get to see a big screen hero from China in a big screen blockbuster" and boom: There's Matt Damon and William Dafoe. With an entire asian cast playing second fiddle.

Yes, William Dafoe is in this too. He just happens to be in China at the time as well. -.-


I mean I'd be angry if I was Mongolian. You know, with the director's choice to cast lizard cgi over Mongolian invaders.
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Posted 2/13/17 , edited 2/13/17

GrandMasterTime wrote:


runec wrote:

But therein lays the kicker, doesn't it? Chinese director, Chinese setting, Chinese history, the single most famous Chinese monument, Chinese people walk into it thinking "Finally, we get to see a big screen hero from China in a big screen blockbuster" and boom: There's Matt Damon and William Dafoe. With an entire asian cast playing second fiddle.

Yes, William Dafoe is in this too. He just happens to be in China at the time as well. -.-


I mean I'd be angry if I was Mongolian. You know, with the director's choice to cast lizard cgi over Mongolian invaders.


I am not sure if the role of thousands of extras as faceless invaders being replaced by monsters is the same as the importance of yet another white actor usurping a title role that would have made more sense in context to be played by an Asian. (Though I admit, I would be weirded out if there wasn't a white guy, which I would not mind)

My only reply is suspension of fucking disbelief. We may accept fantastical, impossible elements like zombie invasions, magic, so forth, for the sake of being able to tell a story, but things that may occur out of probability are more likely to come in scrutiny. The Protagonist guessing the the code to a safe on the first try, the T Rex dying out of a heart attack, etc...and now, out of thousands of capable Asian generals, who probably have more clout and experience in defense measures, we get Matt Damon playing the hero.
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Posted 2/13/17

GrandMasterTime wrote:


runec wrote:

But therein lays the kicker, doesn't it? Chinese director, Chinese setting, Chinese history, the single most famous Chinese monument, Chinese people walk into it thinking "Finally, we get to see a big screen hero from China in a big screen blockbuster" and boom: There's Matt Damon and William Dafoe. With an entire asian cast playing second fiddle.

Yes, William Dafoe is in this too. He just happens to be in China at the time as well. -.-


I mean I'd be angry if I was Mongolian. You know, with the director's choice to cast lizard cgi over Mongolian invaders.


even more pissed then knowing John Wayne played Genghis khan
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Posted 2/13/17 , edited 2/13/17
This is why we needed Brandon Lee so much. How awesome would it be to see him as a seasoned action star.
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Posted 2/13/17 , edited 2/13/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I am not sure if the role of thousands of extras as faceless invaders being replaced by monsters is the same as the importance of yet another white actor usurping a title role that would have made more sense in context to be played by an Asian. (Though I admit, I would be weirded out if there wasn't a white guy, which I would not mind)

My only reply is suspension of fucking disbelief. We may accept fantastical, impossible elements like zombie invasions, magic, so forth, for the sake of being able to tell a story, but things that may occur out of probability are more likely to come in scrutiny. The Protagonist guessing the the code to a safe on the first try, the T Rex dying out of a heart attack, etc...and now, out of thousands of capable Asian generals, who probably have more clout and experience in defense measures, we get Matt Damon playing the hero.


I was more or less, joking there.

Here is a question, if we could run two simulations right now that approximated the popularity of the movie; the first one being the movie as is, with Matt Damon of course; the 2nd being one where a popular Asian actor was casted instead, which simulation would give us a higher popularity in your opinion?

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Posted 2/13/17

GrandMasterTime wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I am not sure if the role of thousands of extras as faceless invaders being replaced by monsters is the same as the importance of yet another white actor usurping a title role that would have made more sense in context to be played by an Asian. (Though I admit, I would be weirded out if there wasn't a white guy, which I would not mind)

My only reply is suspension of fucking disbelief. We may accept fantastical, impossible elements like zombie invasions, magic, so forth, for the sake of being able to tell a story, but things that may occur out of probability are more likely to come in scrutiny. The Protagonist guessing the the code to a safe on the first try, the T Rex dying out of a heart attack, etc...and now, out of thousands of capable Asian generals, who probably have more clout and experience in defense measures, we get Matt Damon playing the hero.


I was more or less, joking there.

Here is a question, if we could run two simulations right now that approximated the popularity of the movie; the first one being the movie as is, with Matt Damon of course; the 2nd being one where a popular Asian actor was casted instead, which simulation would give us a higher popularity in your opinion?



Matt Damon without a doubt. Which leads me to my second problem. The continued hiring of actors that may be due to a racial bias in Hollywood, which is clearly an impetus because of our demographic. Although this seems to be dying out.

The problem not only lies for the audience, but of continued discrimination against actors, models, anything where looks should be important.

That and Victoria Secret models tend to have the same face. FUCK.
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Posted 2/13/17 , edited 2/13/17

uncletim wrote:


GrandMasterTime wrote:

I mean I'd be angry if I was Mongolian. You know, with the director's choice to cast lizard cgi over Mongolian invaders.


even more pissed then knowing John Wayne played Genghis khan


I don't know, with the facial hair he looks like the real thing.
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Posted 2/13/17

GrandMasterTime wrote:


uncletim wrote:


GrandMasterTime wrote:

I mean I'd be angry if I was Mongolian. You know, with the director's choice to cast lizard cgi over Mongolian invaders.


even more pissed then knowing John Wayne played Genghis khan


I don't know, with the facial hair he looks like the real thing.


You've seen the actual Genghis Khan?!
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