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Post Reply An Argument That Bothers Me Greatly. (The Great Wall Movie)
Posted 2/14/17
I would rather watch Damon act than Ben Affleck anytime, and Matt looks good shirtless



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Posted 2/14/17
I'm not sure if it was mentioned before in this thread but the movie is based on a Novel that is an allegory to European Isolationism aka the setting and use of the great wall was meant to serve as a metaphor for Europe "walling" itself off from foreigners.

And we talk about white washing but fail to mention the Turk and the Chilean also in the movie...
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Posted 2/14/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


Voc666IV wrote:


I cannot help but roll my eyes, that out of the thousands of probably capable Chinese generals and warriors at the time, that they happen to cast Matt Damon as the leading hero


How many of those capable Chinese generals and warriors at the time does the average American know about? The two main markets for this film are China and North America. In order to ensure maximum profitability, you include elements from both markets to maximise its appeal and profits. In this case you set the entire thing in China with Chinese actors (to appeal to the Chinses market) and include a couple of Hollywood actors to appeal to the North American market.

If The Great Wall succeeds, it will set a precedent in Hollywood that films with an Asian aesthetic are profitable and as a result they'll make more of them.

Side note: The film is set during the reign of Emperor Renzong of Song (1010-1063) Gunpowder didn't reach Europe until the mid-late 1200s so the idea of European Mercenaries searching for gunpowder in China (to presumably send back to Europe) isn't that improbable.


Which sets up another problem. The lack of career building for minorities in the first place. It is tricky though. Appearance matters a great deal in acting, hence so does race, age, looks in general. I am advocating awareness more so than forced assimilation and minority hiring, which I think is discrimination. People should make their own movies how they want it, but I do not think they barred from criticism for their decisions in either the story or the production.

Though I was wondering about the probability of the historical context. I suppose it would be possible, but again, it appears that the Chinese have been exposed to this threat that they have built a wall, and I suppose they would know the terrain, though the argument of realism still is getting nitpicky at that point.

I still cannot imagine it being probable at all.


Very few actors take centre stage from day one. Often you take minor roles before being launched (if ever) into the centre satge. As a reuslt, you often get a lag as actors have to build up reputaion and a fanbase that will be more likelly to watch a film because said actor is staring in a film. For example, Jing Tian (who plays Lin Mae) had been cast in Kong: Skull Island and Pacific Rim: Uprising which will likely boost her profile with Noth American auidences.


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Posted 2/14/17

Voc666IV wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


Voc666IV wrote:


I cannot help but roll my eyes, that out of the thousands of probably capable Chinese generals and warriors at the time, that they happen to cast Matt Damon as the leading hero


How many of those capable Chinese generals and warriors at the time does the average American know about? The two main markets for this film are China and North America. In order to ensure maximum profitability, you include elements from both markets to maximise its appeal and profits. In this case you set the entire thing in China with Chinese actors (to appeal to the Chinses market) and include a couple of Hollywood actors to appeal to the North American market.

If The Great Wall succeeds, it will set a precedent in Hollywood that films with an Asian aesthetic are profitable and as a result they'll make more of them.

Side note: The film is set during the reign of Emperor Renzong of Song (1010-1063) Gunpowder didn't reach Europe until the mid-late 1200s so the idea of European Mercenaries searching for gunpowder in China (to presumably send back to Europe) isn't that improbable.


Which sets up another problem. The lack of career building for minorities in the first place. It is tricky though. Appearance matters a great deal in acting, hence so does race, age, looks in general. I am advocating awareness more so than forced assimilation and minority hiring, which I think is discrimination. People should make their own movies how they want it, but I do not think they barred from criticism for their decisions in either the story or the production.

Though I was wondering about the probability of the historical context. I suppose it would be possible, but again, it appears that the Chinese have been exposed to this threat that they have built a wall, and I suppose they would know the terrain, though the argument of realism still is getting nitpicky at that point.

I still cannot imagine it being probable at all.


Very few actors take centre stage from day one. Often you take minor roles before being launched (if ever) into the centre satge. As a reuslt, you often get a lag as actors have to build up reputaion and a fanbase that will be more likelly to watch a film because said actor is staring in a film. For example, Jing Tian (who plays Lin Mae) had been cast in Kong: Skull Island and Pacific Rim: Uprising which will likely boost her profile with Noth American auidences.




Ah yes, that is what I was saying. I must've not made myself clear. Sorry bout that.
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Posted 2/14/17
The film industry isn't even trying to hide it's desperate bid to take in sweet sweet Chinese box office dough. Colour me surprised if The Great Wall isn't a huge attempt to appease the film censors in Beijing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/10/stephen-colberts-pander-express-is-a-brilliant-takedown-of-how-hollywood-sucks-up-to-china/?utm_term=.41662c20b7be
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Posted 2/14/17

toquenotbeanie wrote:

The film industry isn't even trying to hide it's desperate bid to take in sweet sweet Chinese box office dough. Colour me surprised if The Great Wall isn't a huge attempt to appease the film censors in Beijing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/10/stephen-colberts-pander-express-is-a-brilliant-takedown-of-how-hollywood-sucks-up-to-china/?utm_term=.41662c20b7be


Hmm, that is troubling.
qwueri 
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Posted 2/18/17 , edited 2/18/17
Reviews of The Great Wall seem to paint the movie as less of a white savior movie and more of a 'pull the Eurpopean in to see how great China is' movie. Doesn't seem like whitewashing really applies here, other than a Chinese production trying to catch US attention with a big name white actor.

*Hollywood could use more diversity in their casting and story telling, sure, but The Great Wall doesn't look like it's a great example for that argument.
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Posted 2/18/17

qwueri wrote:

Reviews of The Great Wall seem to paint the movie as less of a white savior movie and more of a 'pull the Eurpopean in to see how great China is' movie. Doesn't seem like whitewashing really applies here, other than a Chinese production trying to catch US attention with a big name white actor.

*Hollywood could use more diversity in their casting and story telling, sure, but The Great Wall doesn't look like it's a great example for that argument.


Huh, then I am wrong about this movie. Okay then.

I think someone posted another reason why this could be, namely film pandering to China and the PRC review committee to strike up points.
Ejanss 
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Posted 2/18/17 , edited 2/18/17

toquenotbeanie wrote:

The film industry isn't even trying to hide it's desperate bid to take in sweet sweet Chinese box office dough. Colour me surprised if The Great Wall isn't a huge attempt to appease the film censors in Beijing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/10/stephen-colberts-pander-express-is-a-brilliant-takedown-of-how-hollywood-sucks-up-to-china/?utm_term=.41662c20b7be


We've had Ghostbusters and Suicide Squad (like Ghostbusters, China apparently had to ban Squad because of its suggestion that Zool would reappear in the big city, not because we had nasty psychos as heroes)--
But Warcraft's so set into the desperate "We gotta find SOMEBODY to watch these things!!" Hollywood mindset, it might take three or four more disillusioning disasters to get Hollywood off the Shanghai Express, before the State puts a bullet in the industry's head.
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Posted 2/18/17
Coming to theaters next,

Matt Damon playing Jackie Chan in the new Rush Hour 4.
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Posted 2/18/17
My first reaction when I saw the trailer was "what the actual mess??? "

A movie about historical China, with a Japanese monster, and a white dude leading a bunch of soldiers. Honestly I would have watched it if Matt Damon was not more than a side character. It just looks off to me. Still thinking about that Dragonball Z movie, and how weird that was.
gsm642 
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Posted 2/18/17 , edited 2/18/17
There is new evidence that Europeans and or white people where in medieval china so the whole race bashing thing needs to stop its actually not that far off and is pretty accurate. They found bodies of Europeans in Xinjiang dating back to medieval china.
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Posted 2/18/17

gsm642 wrote:

There is new evidence that Europeans and or white people where in medieval china so the whole race bashing thing needs to stop its actually not that far off and is pretty accurate. They found bodies of Europeans in Xinjiang dating back to medieval china.


I wasn't aware of race bashing, but I apologize if I did. I do not think it is race bashing to consider that inserting a white character just to appeal to the American audience isn't all the justified.
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