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Japan’s interpreters struggle to make sense of ‘Trumpese’
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Posted 2/18/17

qwueri wrote:

I'm sure shaky phone camera videos on youtube over the crowd shouting "Lock her up" will be great for learning Trumpese.



The YouTube videos are professional video; either a CSPAN feed or done by Internet streaming networks such as "Right Side Broadcasting". Nothing shaky about it.

Indeed, it looks like u never watched campaign rally speech before, have u? That explains the ignorance...
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Posted 2/18/17

TheGrandAlliance wrote:

The YouTube videos are professional video; either a CSPAN feed or done by Internet streaming networks such as "Right Side Broadcasting". Nothing shaky about it.

Indeed, it looks like u never watched campaign rally speech before, have u? That explains the ignorance...


Nah, just using the same rhetorical quality as 'them japs better learn Trump or they get the hiroshimas'.
Posted 2/18/17

TheGrandAlliance wrote:
That is because "academic elitists" are not nearly as smart as they claim to be, or they wouldn't be bitching. Trump uses "cluster language", something they don't get. Don't attempt to translate word-for-word. He talks about ideas in grammatical phrases, and strings them together. If, instead u stop trying a literal translation of everything, and instead focus of implied meaning of each sentence and translate that, /easymode

It is a computer data compression: It assumes u understand the algorithm being used to unpack and execute code. Trump supporters get it, that is why they like him so much. But liberal elitists are, indeed not as "elite" as they claim. Their abundant lack if scope on linguistic theory is not broad enough to be able to dechiper code. So they whine and complain alot.

Perhaps some examples are in order. I will get u noobs to understand Trumpism, in no time...


Thanks, but no thanks.
It's clear that you're refusing to comprehend how translation works in a professional environment. Trump isn't special in the sense that those who have to translate political speeches, publications, and so forth see him just like any other country's leader - needing to be translated, paid to translate, but you do what you can.

There's no "code" in Trumpism. It's just word salad; or, as you've called it "cluster language". Cluster language/word salad are both considered symptoms of psychological or developmental disorders. If you're comparing Trumpism to CLU, then you really need to start learning it a bit better - seeing as it may be abstract, it does abide by its own syntax correctly. Trump changes his phrasing, his tone, and his rhetoric on a daily basis. There isn't any syntax to "Trumpism" other than "I'm right, you're wrong, deal with it." (even when he's wrong).

As for the translator, that's not laziness. That's just how translating professionally becomes. I cannot translate everything our Japanese customers say to my own CEO because it doesn't correlate to our customs or the other way around. You can choose to see it as you wish. It doesn't necessarily mean that you have any experience translating, nor understand the complexities when it comes to translation. I agreed that there should have been some additional insight into their background investigation so they knew certain key figures - but, at the end of the day, nobody could properly prepare for the word salad that Trump throws out as a translator.
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Posted 2/18/17 , edited 2/19/17

qwueri wrote:

Nah, just using the same rhetorical quality as 'them japs better learn Trump or they get the hiroshimas'.


....but isn't that exactly what Japan is so worried about these days? NATO... a nuclear attack from NKorea, China, whatever?


Not quite so crazy, when u think about it. See, ur learning Trumpism already...
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Posted 2/18/17 , edited 2/19/17

ninjitsuko wrote:

Thanks, but no thanks.
It's clear that you're refusing to comprehend how translation works in a professional environment.

As for the translator, that's not laziness. That's just how translating professionally becomes.


Again, ur being lazy. If you don't want to invest in learning "new English", dont. Let "real professional translators" handle it. If you cannot understand Trump, but yet millions of humans do, that is ur problem.

Throwing out baseless ad hominem attacks, like claiming Trump is retarded, instead of actually doing ur job as an academic is exactly 100% reason millions of people voted for him. Liberals like to accuse everything they don't like as retarded. In reality, their comprehension of biology is limited. Is a dog retarded because it only barks?

Indeed, as if people like you simply refuse to do ur homework, you best expect 8 years of a 2-Term Trump presidency. You will never "get it" why people vote for him. And me just trying to help you...


But no matter, /lazy sorry excuse of a translator; it's your one job to be able to figure out how to translate something, and u cannot do it, meh. Go over there and watch some Naruto or something. The noobs...
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Posted 2/18/17

TheGrandAlliance wrote:

....but isn't that exactly what Japan is so worried about these days? NATO... a nuclear attack from NKorea, China, whatever?


Not quite so crazy, when u think about it. See, ur learning Trumpism already...


If that was your meaning behind Japanese interpreters learning to translate Trump (not really the issue in the article, but whatever) at the rist of an attack analogous to the US dropping a nuke on Japan, the subject is vague enough to be interpreted as either an implicit threat from the US or a tangential warning about regional issues. And with Trump in particular, he's prone to leave that vague enough so later on he can claim whichever seems most convenient for him at the time. I'm all too familiar with understanding salesman speech/word salad/bullshit, I just don't have a high regard for it.
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Posted 2/18/17 , edited 2/19/17

qwueri wrote:
If that was your meaning behind Japanese interpreters learning to translate Trump at the rist of an attack analogous to the US dropping a nuke on Japan, the subject is vague enough to be interpreted as either an implicit threat from the US or a tangential warning about regional issues.



That's again, the point. If you want to translate Trump, stop taking everything personally; stop being self-centered. Trump makes statements just like that, to someone who "gets" it, it makes perfect sense. There is 0 ambiguity.

Indeed, as there is nothing vague about what Trump says at all, you as the listener (in this case, Government of Japan) are subconsciously implying things/threats that aren't real. Stop listening to the voices in ur head, they are bad...
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Posted 2/18/17

TheGrandAlliance wrote:



Uhm, yes he is special, he is leader of most powerful country of the History of the Planet. The President of the United States of America. So unless 'dem Japs want more Hiroshimas, they'd better get on board.



Not knowing who Reince Prebius is, on a victory speech thanking his team, is a noob translator. Not knowing classic post-WW2 American Cultural History, is noob lvl of American English skill. Not understanding what is considered the vocabulary of "Americanisms", and being tasked to high stakes translation, is noob. If you don't get what he is saying, that is your professional failure as a translator, not the subject of Translation.



That is because "academic elitists" are not nearly as smart as they claim to be, or they wouldn't be bitching. Trump uses "cluster language", something they don't get. Don't attempt to translate word-for-word. He talks about ideas in grammatical phrases, and strings them together. If, instead u stop trying a literal translation of everything, and instead focus of implied meaning of each sentence and translate that, /easymode

It is a computer data compression: It assumes u understand the algorithm being used to unpack and execute code. Trump supporters get it, that is why they like him so much. But liberal elitists are, indeed not as "elite" as they claim. Their abundant lack if scope on linguistic theory is not broad enough to be able to dechiper code. So they whine and complain alot.



Tone, may be indeed non-polite, but Japanese has plenty of room for that. Causative form Japanese. So no matter...


Perhaps some examples are in order. I will get u noobs to understand Trumpism, in no time...


Where to begin...

"Uhm, yes he is special, he is leader of most powerful country of the History of the Planet. The President of the United States of America. So unless 'dem Japs want more Hiroshimas, they'd better get on board."

Let's try that again. You're aware that Japan holds a significant share of the US debt, right? Are you also aware that Japan has been recently selling off some of the bonds they hold, based upon Trump's repeated comments about 'renegotiating' our debt obligations? Seems to me that it's US that had better get on board with the concept of paying down our debt, and NOT giving our creditors cause to call in that debt.

"Not knowing who Reince Prebius is, on a victory speech thanking his team, is a noob translator."

Do you know who the leader of France's conservative party is? Do you know who is in their version of our Cabinet? So, if you were tasked to translate a speech by the current leader of France, I should consider you a 'noob' because you don't know these things? It isn't necessary for you to have in depth knowledge of France's political leadership (helpful yes, necessary, no) in order to do a translation.

"That is because "academic elitists" are not nearly as smart as they claim to be, or they wouldn't be bitching. Trump uses "cluster language", something they don't get. Don't attempt to translate word-for-word. He talks about ideas in grammatical phrases, and strings them together. If, instead u stop trying a literal translation of everything, and instead focus of implied meaning of each sentence and translate that, /easymode"

I'll agree, his language is a cluster. Honestly, his off the cuff commentary reads more like free association than actual planned speech. I'm hardly an 'academic elitist', but it would be nice if our President could a) stay on message and b) start speaking in complete coherent sentences.


qwueri 
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Posted 2/18/17

TheGrandAlliance wrote:


qwueri wrote:
If that was your meaning behind Japanese interpreters learning to translate Trump at the rist of an attack analogous to the US dropping a nuke on Japan, the subject is vague enough to be interpreted as either an implicit threat from the US or a tangential warning about regional issues.



That's again, the point. If you want to translate Trump, stop taking everything personally; stop being self-centered. Trump makes statements just like that, to someone who "gets" it, it makes perfect sense. There is 0 ambiguity.

Indeed, as there is nothing vague about what Trump says at all, you as the listener (in this case, Government of Japan) are subconsciously implying things/threats that aren't real. Stop listening to the voices in ur head, they are bad...


And what is personal or self-centered in my evaluation of 'Japan learn Trump or get more Hiroshimas'? You may 'get it' because you're coming from your own unspoken context, but much like the evaluations of 'listen to what Trump feels and not what he says' either case could be interpreted and could very well be claimed later on.
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Posted 2/18/17 , edited 2/19/17

MeanderCat wrote:
Where to begin...

Let's try that again. You're aware that Japan holds a significant share of the US debt, right? Are you also aware that Japan has been recently selling off some of the bonds they hold, based upon Trump's repeated comments about 'renegotiating' our debt obligations? Seems to me that it's US that had better get on board with the concept of paying down our debt, and NOT giving our creditors cause to call in that debt.


This debt issue is fake news, because many people using this argument don't understand scale of US obligations. Japan has somewhere between 1-2 Trillion. Less the 10% of outstanding 20+ Trillion, thanks to Obama. The United States goverment, the Federal Reserve through the stimulative Quantitative Easing programs owns twice as much debt as Japanese. More then with China combined, even.

Even if they dump 100% of debt, assuming technically possible, it would have marginal effect on economy. No different the Janet Yellen announcing rollback of the 4T balance sheet to 2T instead of raising rates to combat inflation. The economy is operating on excessive slack, anyways. So, not a big deal.


Furthermore, the reason why Japan sold some stuff has nothing to do with disapproval of Trump. Indeed, more fake news. They are reallocating some of that money into a "soon to be announced" US investment project proposal. Remeber Abe talking about "building high speed rail on East Coast"? Fake news makes it sound like they panicking. Not only that, but it is reported Japan may buy more debt, for their retirement program, to increase long rate returns, and not less. US best deal in town.

Finally, keep in mind exchange rate is high against Yen. Just as matter of currency management, it makes sense to move money back to Japan for short term liquidity reasons, as assuming Yen will revert to 100.

Again, what u site is fake news. But no matter.



MeanderCat wrote:
Do you know who the leader of France's conservative party is? Do you know who is in their version of our Cabinet? So, if you were tasked to translate a speech by the current leader of France, I should consider you a 'noob' because you don't know these things? It isn't necessary for you to have in depth knowledge of France's political leadership (helpful yes, necessary, no) in order to do a translation.


I don't speak French. So yes, I would be a noob theoretically. But then again, I would take a job I couldn't do, either. Don't do translation work if u don't have the experience. Don't blame ur inexperience on someone else.



MeanderCat wrote:
Honestly, his off the cuff commentary reads more like free association than actual planned speech. I'm hardly an 'academic elitist', but it would be nice if our President could a) stay on message and b) start speaking in complete coherent sentences.


He "speaks from the heart", he is not a calculating person parsing his statements. That leads to irregularities. But, if u watch him enough, over time he discovers such and corrects them later.

His word order may have issues, but the underlying message remains intact. The goal of the translator is to find his message. It can be done.
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Posted 2/18/17
Calm down, Spicey.
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Posted 2/18/17
When money talks to you, we all turn the other cheek.

Universal language. Why try to make sense of anything when money is what we really care about. Money is the soul reason for results, because the people only know how to work for money.

You can deny all you want. Money is the only reason for anything, because we were taught to believe we need to have it in our lives for keeping our society in perfect rule and cooperation; when even that ultimately backfired in order to keep people struggling and in constant motion of where and how they spend their money.

See how I just take things, and try to make sense of it. It's just a fun little game
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Posted 2/18/17 , edited 2/19/17

qwueri wrote:
And what is personal or self-centered in my evaluation of 'Japan learn Trump or get more Hiroshimas'?


Because you are implying a direct threat of nuclear attack by US. This is called, "being a worrywort". When people such as Japan listen to Trump (especially liberals), they auto-assume worse case scenario. That Trump gonna deport everyone, rape all the women. Something. Instead, they should be rational in an analysis.

U need to do what defense lawyers love to say, to "go from the possibilities to the probabilities". U/Japan are like prosecutors, u just lock into whatever floats ur hypothesis and reject everything else. It isn't a case of "listening to how Trump feels instead of says"; instead, simply consider what is the likely meaning of his statement. Use a past libary of Trumpism to predict future behaviour.

Then, it makes real sense. Because in case u hadn't notice, he repeats himself alot. Alot. It is like measuring ur weight on a scale, u have to do it a few times to correct for potential errors. At least my bathroom scale, I can gain +-5lbs simply by standing on it differently.


Is this "presidential"? In the end, it is simply unfiltered: How "normal" people talk. And why millions people like him, even if policy disagreements exist. And why haters like to watch him as well; whether they admit truth, another matter. Unless, ur someone who likes reading from a script while ur having sex. Then u got problems. But no matter.

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Posted 2/18/17 , edited 2/19/17

Humms wrote:

When money talks to you, we all turn the other cheek.

Universal language. Why try to make sense of anything when money is what we really care about. Money is the soul reason for results, because the people only know how to work for money.

You can deny all you want. Money is the only reason for anything, because we were taught to believe we need to have it in our lives for keeping our society in perfect rule and cooperation; when even that ultimately backfired in order to keep people struggling and in constant motion of where and how they spend their money.



Actually, "ur right on the money" with that analysis. The Illusion of Currency.

Well done. But alas, another debate, to is be so...



meygaera wrote:

Calm down, Spicey.


BTW, as PSA for the "Peoples of the Internet" that may not get the above joke... he is comparing my defense of Trump to White House Press Secretary, Sean Spicer. How quaint...

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Posted 2/18/17

TheGrandAlliance wrote:


qwueri wrote:
And what is personal or self-centered in my evaluation of 'Japan learn Trump or get more Hiroshimas'?


Because you are implying a direct threat of nuclear attack by US. This is called, "being a worrywort". When people such as Japan listen to Trump (especially liberals), they auto-assume worse case scenario. That Trump gonna deport everyone, rape all the women. Something. Instead, they should be rational in an analysis.

U need to do what defense lawyers love to say, to "go from the possibilities to the probabilities". U/Japan are like prosecutors, u just lock into whatever floats ur hypothesis and reject everything else. It isn't a case of "listening to how Trump feels instead of says"; instead, simply consider what is the likely meaning of his statement. Use a past libary of Trumpism to predict future behaviour.

Then, it makes real sense. Because in case u hadn't notice, he repeats himself alot. Alot. It is like measuring ur weight on a scale, u have to do it a few times to correct for potential errors. At least my bathroom scale, I can gain +-5lbs simply by standing on it differently.


Is this "presidential"? In the end, it is simply unfiltered: How "normal" people talk. And why millions people like him, even if policy disagreements exist. And why haters like to watch him as well; whether they admit truth, another matter. Unless, ur someone who likes reading from a script while ur having sex. Then u got problems. But no matter.



I notice a lack of connection to taking the statement personally or selfishly. I recognize the statement is hyperbolic, when using a past bombing by the US expecting the meaning to imply otherwise is not realistic. It still comes across like someone playing a thug walking into a store and telling the owner "It sure would be a shame for something bad to happen in here."

Circling back to Trump, using "a past library of Trumpism" is an inconsistent gauge. Sometimes he means what he said (muslim ban), sometimes he might mean what he said (build the wall and make mexico pay for it), sometimes he lets it slid into the ether and never mentions it again (lock her up).

Repeating oneself is not how daily conversation happens, it's just a rhetorical device professional speakers use to drill a point home. And kind of beside the point concerning Trump's switching topics in a speech. Yes, people do abruptly change topics, but without some sort of segue or queue it's also pretty common for listeners to say or think 'what brought that up?'
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