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Japan’s interpreters struggle to make sense of ‘Trumpese’
Ejanss 
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Posted 2/18/17 , edited 2/18/17

HuastecoOtaku wrote:

“He is so overconfident and yet so logically unconvincing that my interpreter friends and I often joke that if we translated his words as they are, we would end up making ourselves sound stupid,” Tsuruta, who is also a professor of interpreting and translation studies at the Tokyo University of Foreign Studies, said in a recent interview.


I think most of us have a hard time making sense of the man


Well, most Google Translate Japanese-English translations usually sound scrambled and incoherent anyway, so it's not like we'd notice a difference...

Now that Mark Hamill's not doing anymore, how about Vocaloids?
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Posted 2/18/17
They're going to have a hell of a time making an anime about Trump.
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Posted 2/18/17 , edited 2/19/17

qwueri wrote:
I notice a lack of connection to taking the statement personally or selfishly.


It is as a result of perspective; out of fear. As an American (Trump Supporter), nobody thinks Trump gonna nuke Japan. As a Japanese, you are "paranoid" from 1000s of years of isolation. So they look at the exact statement, and infer a completly different, personalized response. Thus, being "selfish" in their analysis. Not considering other views, perspectives. Only worried about their "observed safety". But not logical, in either case.


qwueri wrote:
Circling back to Trump, using "a past library of Trumpism" is an inconsistent gauge. Sometimes he means what he said (muslim ban), sometimes he might mean what he said (build the wall and make mexico pay for it), sometimes he lets it slid into the ether and never mentions it again (lock her up).


A few points...

1. Muslim ban, he didn't do this. Would he want to? Probably. But he is aware of the "legal technicalities". Instead, with his executive order, he found a way to restrict countries from warzones. At least, till noobs caused problems. Probably a better policy, anyways.
2. Mexico thing is his declared intention, so he means precisely what is said. The real q is whether he cab do it, ot not. We shall see. Doesn't mean he will not try.
3. "Lock her up", that is what crowds say, BTW. So fun. But after he won, in his "Thank you tour", he explained repeatedly that to "moveon.org" was best. Winning the election was enough. A change in policy? No, because he was never intending on doing it anyways. He said things that implied that, but yet again ur reading into stuff. He likes to have fun on TV; not be boring, gets people to care/watch about otherwise boring things like politics.
4. Trump does "evolve" opinion over time, it is not static. After "watching enough cable news", sometimes he decides to handle the problem differently. Refine the message. So, that is why a "library of Trumpism" is needed, because it therefore becomes easy to predict. If people bitch hard enough about something, he will likely remessage to counter. So if you "hear something crazy", infer it only as opening position.

...like his book. Everything Trump does is "The Art of the Deal". Always changing a position around a theme in order to achieve a result. Doesn't mean he is "caving in", rather simply has room to maneuver. Some people don't like this, but again he is prez, so "deal with it".


qwueri wrote:
Repeating oneself is not how daily conversation happens, it's just a rhetorical device professional speakers use to drill a point home. And kind of beside the point concerning Trump's switching topics in a speech. Yes, people do abruptly change topics, but without some sort of segue or queue it's also pretty common for listeners to say or think 'what brought that up?'


He has groups of themes. He starts on a message, extends the outline to other topics, but he will always close the message loop. Is good on that. Have to be patient long enough. If u took text of the speech, u can easily make an outline from it.

For instance, may open up topic on national defense, go on to talk about trade, then talk about jobs, but end by stating that all the subpoints regarding economy contribute to weakening defense; and that's why need to "Make America Strong Again, Rich Again, Great Again". Have to do them all, a "package deal". It is quite logical actually, especially the "stump speeches".


But, like I said at top if u have short-term memory loss u won't remember it. Like the noob translators, above. So instead, focus on themes, not literal translations, it shall be so...


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Posted 2/18/17 , edited 2/19/17
They are not alone. There are very few foreigners who can translate trumpese. Even fewer Americans can do it.

Do not pretend that DJT speaks in a coherent, veracious, consistent fashion. Of course, you probably believe that he had the largest electoral college win in recent memory, that the FBI, CIA, and NSA are all incompetent, that his campaign staff never spoke to Russian intelligence, that the entire free press excluding the National Enquirer are out to get him, and that an orthodox jewish reporter who asked about the rise of anti-semitism in America was personally accusing him of anti-semitism.
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Posted 2/18/17 , edited 2/19/17

tomas123987 wrote:
They are not alone. There are very few foreigners who can translate trumpese. Even fewer Americans can do it.


I can. Others too. Only hard to do, if u voted for Hillary, I'd imagine.


tomas123987 wrote:
Do not pretend that DJT speaks in a coherent, veracious, consistent fashion.


O'reilly? Read me /walloftext above.


tomas123987 wrote:
Of course, you probably believe that he had the largest electoral college win in recent memory...


You failed to define "recent memory". As far as I know, he had largest win since my "recent memory" of 2016.


tomas123987 wrote:
...that the FBI, CIA, and NSA are all incompetent...


Someone needs to see movie "Snowden". Or another, "The Fifth Estate". Perhaps, "Too Big To Fail"? News from future, "intelligence" sucks.


tomas123987 wrote:
...that his campaign staff never spoke to Russian intelligence...


...assuming that statement is even accurate (which is not), that is bad, because?... It would prevent warmongers like u from starting WWIII? Meh...


tomas123987 wrote:
...that the entire free press excluding the National Enquirer are out to get him...


Oh, but they are. When is last time they talked about something not-Trump related? "Japanese Domestic Politics", perhaps? O wait...


tomas123987 wrote:
...and that an orthodox jewish reporter who asked about the rise of anti-semitism in America was personally accusing him of anti-semitism.


...because there is no rise, that's why. Fake News. Claiming there is, is suggesting Trump is somehow complicit.


But no matter...
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Posted 2/18/17

TheGrandAlliance wrote:


qwueri wrote:
I notice a lack of connection to taking the statement personally or selfishly.


It is as a result of perspective; out of fear. As an American (Trump Supporter), nobody thinks Trump gonna nuke Japan. As a Japanese, you are "paranoid" from 1000s of years of isolation. So they look at the exact statement, and infer a completly different, personalized response. Thus, being "selfish" in their analysis. Not considering other views, perspectives. Only worried about their "observed safety". But not logical, in either case.


qwueri wrote:
Circling back to Trump, using "a past library of Trumpism" is an inconsistent gauge. Sometimes he means what he said (muslim ban), sometimes he might mean what he said (build the wall and make mexico pay for it), sometimes he lets it slid into the ether and never mentions it again (lock her up).


A few points...

1. Muslim ban, he didn't do this. Would he want to? Probably. But he is aware of the "legal technicalities". Instead, with his executive order, he found a way to restrict countries from warzones. At least, till noobs caused problems. Probably a better policy, anyways.
2. Mexico thing is his declared intention, so he means precisely what is said. The real q is whether he cab do it, ot not. We shall see. Doesn't mean he will not try.
3. "Lock her up", that is what crowds say, BTW. So fun. But after he won, in his "Thank you tour", he explained repeatedly that to "moveon.org" was best. Winning the election was enough. A change in policy? No, because he was never intending on doing it anyways. He said things that implied that, but yet again ur reading into stuff. He likes to have fun on TV; not be boring, gets people to care/watch about otherwise boring things like politics.
4. Trump does "evolve" opinion over time, it is not static. After "watching enough cable news", sometimes he decides to handle the problem differently. Refine the message. So, that is why a "library of Trumpism" is needed, because it therefore becomes easy to predict. If people bitch hard enough about something, he will likely remessage to counter. So if you "hear something crazy", infer it only as opening position.

...like his book. Everything Trump does is "The Art of the Deal". Always changing a position around a theme in order to achieve a result. Doesn't mean he is "caving in", rather simply has room to maneuver. Some people don't like this, but again he is prez, so "deal with it".


qwueri wrote:
Repeating oneself is not how daily conversation happens, it's just a rhetorical device professional speakers use to drill a point home. And kind of beside the point concerning Trump's switching topics in a speech. Yes, people do abruptly change topics, but without some sort of segue or queue it's also pretty common for listeners to say or think 'what brought that up?'


He has groups of themes. He starts on a message, extends the outline to other topics, but he will always close the message loop. Is good on that. Have to be patient long enough. If u took text of the speech, u can easily make an outline from it.

For instance, may open up topic on national defense, go on to talk about trade, then talk about jobs, but end by stating that all the subpoints regarding economy contribute to weakening defense; and that's why need to "Make America Strong Again, Rich Again, Great Again". Have to do them all, a "package deal". It is quite logical actually, especially the "stump speeches".


But, like I said at top if u have short-term memory loss u won't remember it. Like the noob translators, above. So instead, focus on themes, not literal translations, it shall be so...




Problem with what you are saying is that most of your points are factually incorrect. For example:

1. It is not a ban on "warzone" countries. If it was, then places like Ukraine would be included. If you mean Muslim majority countries which are warzones then ...
2. "Mexico thing ..." your post could reference numerous points so cannot understand (is it wall, tariffs, jobs, dreamers, existing immigration, currency, etc.?)
3. You state that he never intended to pursue criminal charges against Hillary Clinton. He actually said he was going to "get a special prosecutor ... she would be in jail " (don't have the time to look up whether he used the exact words "lock her up). But he never stated that this was a "fun thing" never meant to be taken seriously so you are making things up (unless EVERYTHING he says is not meant to be taken seriously)
4. His opinions are not "evolving." When someone points out that he said something different, he most of the time he does not say that his opinions are changing. Instead, he denies making the original statement and if presented with the actual tape claims that they are either made up, taken out of context., etc.
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Posted 2/18/17
Wow - there is not hope for you. Have a nice life and I pray that I never meet someoneas clueless as you in person
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Posted 2/18/17 , edited 2/19/17

tomas123987 wrote:
1. It is not a ban on "warzone" countries. If it was, then places like Ukraine would be included. If you mean Muslim majority countries which are warzones then ...


Perhaps I should expand my point, as I assume it was obvious. It is 7 warzone countries that Obama, NOT Trump, designed years ago as unable to verify legitimacy of citizens from the country; to also present a perceived security threat. Of course, Fake News likes to ignore the list of 7 is from Obama.


tomas123987 wrote:
2. "Mexico thing ..." your post could reference numerous points so cannot understand (is it wall, tariffs, jobs, dreamers, existing immigration, currency, etc.?)


Referring to the line that the poster referred to: "Make Mexico pay for wall". As to that, Trump is serious.


tomas123987 wrote:
3. You state that he never intended to pursue criminal charges against Hillary Clinton. He actually said he was going to "get a special prosecutor ... she would be in jail. But he never stated that this was a "fun thing" never meant to be taken seriously so you are making things up (unless EVERYTHING he says is not meant to be taken seriously)


U fail to note, he used suggestive language in that claim. "I should, I may, Perhaps it is a good idea", "...to get prosecutor". Never actually firmly committed to it, just floated it. And solicited a crowd response. But saying he full-hearty declared the intention, is fake news.

Furthermore, like I said above, "he evolves", so it really doesn't matter anyways. "For the war, before against the war", likewise.


tomas123987 wrote:
4. His opinions are not "evolving." When someone points out that he said something different, he most of the time he does not say that his opinions are changing. Instead, he denies making the original statement and if presented with the actual tape claims that they are either made up, taken out of context., etc.


Depends what you are referring to. But yes, if is called out on something, he may change response. But usually only after thinking about it for a time. For instance, "Muslim Ban" became "Extreme Vetting".
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Posted 2/18/17 , edited 2/19/17

tomas123987 wrote:

Wow - there is not hope for you. Have a nice life and I pray that I never meet someoneas clueless as you in person



Well, ur 56 years old, and probably still think cold war is real war. No wonder u hate Russia so much.

Alas, I don't think I have a need to "meet an old fogey" like u, anyways. But no matter...
Posted 2/18/17

TheGrandAlliance wrote:
Well, ur 56 years old, and probably still think cold war is real war. No wonder u hate Russia so much.

Alas, I don't think I have a need to "meet an old fogey" like u, anyways. But no matter...


I think you've taken this thread a bit too far into personal territory, man. The reality is that translating Trump is a difficult job. While there were/are scenarios where the translator should do investigation into the background before taking on a position to do so, that's not always something that can be done depending on the nature of their position (some translators are forced to jump right into the position due to lack of translators on-hand, this happens in every country).

You've started jumping into a realm of "evolving" when it comes to Trump. It's not so much that he evolved beyond it but because he understood the limitation of his power as POTUS. Just like with the "Muslim Ban" (note quotation marks) - it was outside of his power, as it was unconstitutional, to do so. He will likely rephrase it in a manner of tone (as I had suggested he would need to do in several threads when this originally came up) to fit the Constitution's requirements for an Executive Order that would expand to this kind of territory.

I'd stop taking this so personally, though. I know some people insulted you directly but it became kind of the status quo when you simply rejected any logical evidence against your statements. I guess that's kind of how these political threads have become in general; on any sort of forum. (Unfortunate, it is).
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Posted 2/18/17
If anyone seriously thinks a translator having a difficult time working with material like this:


No, no. I do that. Here’s the thing. OK. I understand what you’re — and you’re right about that, except this. See, I know when I should get good and when I should get bad. And sometimes I’ll say, “Wow, that’s going to be a great story.” And I’ll get killed.

I know what’s good and bad. I’d be a pretty good reporter, not as good as you. But I know what’s good. I know what’s bad.


Is entirely their fault, I'd really like to see what textbook or program you think they learned English from because it's got to be pretty different from anything I've ever seen.
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Posted 2/18/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

They're going to have a hell of a time making an anime about Trump.


Oh I don't know Look at Gate they nailed him pretty good
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Posted 2/18/17 , edited 2/19/17

ninjitsuko wrote:
I'd stop taking this so personally, though.


No worries. Although I did burn several hours of life this morning on this, such dialog has been fruitful. Able to better respond to incoming from "Japanese side". Working on IRL applications, it is so.

Indeed, the real solution to this particular thread would to be a Eng/Jpn translator myself, then I could "school the noobs" on Trump. Because if anything can be learned in this thread, is that current levels of translations are unsatisfactory. And such leads to policy errors by Japan, or others. And I actually care about Japan as well, so go figure.

Of course, for whatever reason, me just "language disabled", ironically so. Spent tens of thousands of USD, almost a year in Japan, and still struggle with JLPTN4 test. So I have problems, yes. No matter, I will figure it out, maybe, someday; or not.


Because world will end first of course, thanks to Trump. But I digress...
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Posted 2/18/17

uncletim wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

They're going to have a hell of a time making an anime about Trump.


Oh I don't know Look at Gate they nailed him pretty good


THIS!!!!!!!! Trump is a parody of himself.
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Posted 2/18/17

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


nemoskull wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


nemoskull wrote:

yeah, ive spoken english all my life and i still dont understand half of what he says. sometimes i wonder if hes a downy kid. his worrd choices sound like hes not right in the head or is used to speaking a foreign language. like he doesnt understand america (for lack of a better term.)


'I am sorry?' I don't think your lack of understanding is do to his lack of communication, more than it is do to your lack of wanting to listen to what he has to say.




its his word choices. like sometimes hes not sure if hes high class or ghetto talk. its hard to place. and mostly its his tweets, not acutal spoken words.


As a fellow New Yorker I let you in on a little secret, Its NY talk. Its how a lot of us talk, you get used to it if you hang with us New Yorkers for a bit.
Yes, it's NY talk that is making Trump sound foolish and outrageous. So many people are misunderstanding him because of his New York talk. But new yorkers understand him perfectly.

You're the special kind.
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