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Post Reply George Takei talks about his sexual experience at 13/14 with 18/19 year old camp counselor
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Posted 2/21/17

kinga750 wrote:


Yes that's the whole point. In this case if there is no victim, there is no crime. 13-18 is super sketchy but we aren't gay asians at summer camp in 1950. Don't try to judge someone so far outside your purview.


Do you even realize you are defending child molestation? You were born in the wrong millennia.
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Posted 2/21/17 , edited 2/22/17

kinga750 wrote:
Yes that's the whole point. In this case if there is no victim, there is no crime. 13-18 is super sketchy but we aren't gay asians at summer camp in 1950. Don't try to judge someone so far outside your purview.


By current law, the R&J laws of every state do no stretch more than 3 years, so it is not like Mystic is wrong that it is legally molestation, just overreacting. If Takei is advocating this then it is reprehensible (In my view), but I'd hardly believe a youtube video when I cannot find any video on him otherwise.

I mean, granted, there's a lot of news articles about the 75th anniversary of Internment camps, in which he was imprisoned with his family. Maybe they're cluttering up the search? Help me guys.
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Posted 2/21/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:
I'll have to read into this. In any case, I was disturbed by a personal experience of a sexual harassment claim. Honestly? School is fucking shit when we believe women over men.


Just referring to the infamous "If you're rich, women let you grab them by the pussy" versus OP's audio of Takei. Not much to read into.

Sorry to hear that you were harassed. Yeah, I think that public schools are pretty shit about silencing kids to avoid having to investigate anything, which is why people can get away with that stuff for so long.
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Posted 2/21/17 , edited 2/21/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:
By current law, the R&J laws of every state do no stretch more than 3 years, so it is not like Mystic is wrong that it is legally molestation, just overreacting. If Takei is advocating this then it is reprehensible, but I'd hardly believe a youtube video when I cannot find any video on him otherwise.

I mean, granted, there's a lot of news articles about the 75th anniversary of Internment camps, in which he was imprisoned with his family.

I'm not arguing that it's legal, or that it should be. I think the laws we have now are mostly reasonable. But was it immoral as Takei described it? I don't really think so but you could argue it was on the part of the camp counselor. It was certainly illegal by today's standards, and considerably dangerous in 1950.
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Posted 2/21/17 , edited 2/21/17

Kavalion wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:
I'll have to read into this. In any case, I was disturbed by a personal experience of a sexual harassment claim. Honestly? School is fucking shit when we believe women over men.


Just referring to the infamous "If you're rich, women let you grab them by the pussy" versus OP's audio of Takei. Not much to read into.

Sorry to hear that you were harassed. Yeah, I think that public schools are pretty shit about silencing kids to avoid having to investigate anything, which is why people can get away with that stuff for so long.


Well no, I was interested in sexual jokes and told them. Girl, if you cannot tell me to stop, then why would I? Schools have become so stringent on this any claim is investigated with such zeal as to against male perpetrators.

My solution? Teach girls (and boys) a couple of things.

-If someone says something that you do not like in a group function, stand up for yourself. Silence in these cases is tolerance, if not consensual.
-Get adults involved only when it is serious.
-Attractive physically is no guarantee of anything. That girl with the long hair could be psycho. The captain of the football team could be a rapist.
-Treat people relatively the same when regarding certain matters. It doesn't matter if you find him unattractive, that does not mean his one time invitation to the prom without any mention of sexual motive is molestation. FFS, stop using molestation and harassment to your advantage.
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Posted 2/21/17 , edited 2/22/17

kinga750 wrote:

I'm not arguing that it's legal, or that it should be. I think the laws we have now are mostly reasonable. But was it immoral as Takei described it? I don't really think so but you could argue it was on the part of the camp counselor. It was certainly illegal by today's standards, and considerably dangerous in 1950.


Well, I think what Mystic was arguing was Takei's supposed endorsement of it. If it mainly just him talking about how he feels it wasn't molestation, there is that, as long as he avoids the "attractive people cannot molest".

I think this is a possible understanding we should come to.

Of course, this is a thread by Amyas_Leigh. Take everything he posts with a megaton of scrutiny.
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Posted 2/21/17 , edited 2/21/17
The fact that people even attempt to rationalize this. You aren't displaying a high class appreciation of a bohemian society. You are advocating for lawless hedonism. To say this needs be discussed is implying there are some middle ground or room for social advocacy. There isn't. It's like trying to campaign on bring back the Colosseum so you can feed people to lions. That isn't a discussion a modern human being would partake in. I'm all for exploring the depths of your depravity, I relish in it. But this is a line too far. Whether you like that shit in anime is one thing. It has no place in the real civilized world.
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Posted 2/21/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:
Well, I think what Mystic was arguing was Takei's supposed endorsement of it. If it mainly just him talking about how he feels it wasn't molestation, there is that, as long as he avoids the "attractive people cannot molest".

Of course, this is a thread by Amyas_Leigh. Take everything he posts wit a ton of scrutiny.


Judging by the youtube comments this got circulated by some alt-right sites. The entire interview is probably really interesting. I'm not a fan of Howard Stern but he does good interviews when he gets the right people.
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Posted 2/21/17

MysticGon wrote:

The fact that people even attempt to rationalize this. You aren't displaying a high class appreciation of a bohemian society. You are advocating for lawless hedonism. To say this needs be discussed is implying there are some middle ground or room for social advocacy. There isn't. It's like trying to campaign on bring back the Colosseum so you can feed people to lions. That isn't a discussion a modern human being would partake in. I'm all for exploring the depths of your depravity, I relish in it. But this is a line too far. Whether you like that shit in anime is one thing. It has no place in the real civilized world.


I thought you were mad about George Takei supposed supporting of this, or the storied excuse of that molestation isn't when done so by an attractive people. If he is just talking about this, and how he feels this wasn't molestation, then I do not see what I can really infer of Takei's ideals for this currently.

Then...this source does not looks too incredibly reputable. There is that.
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Posted 2/21/17 , edited 2/21/17
I find it difficult to yell at someone and say "You were raped! Be more damaged!". As he was in the traditionally "victimized" role, I think he can really hold whatever opinion of that incident that he wants. Either way, he didn't really do anything wrong so I don't see the logic behind the outrage.

EDIT: In the absence of law, how "wrong" would this be? Or asked another way, if this incident took place in Japan where the age of consent is 13 (and where Takei's parent's are from) or if it was covered under Romeo and Juliet laws (say, the older kid was 17 and not 18 and the laws covered 4 years which does seem to be how it works in some jurisdictions), would this incident still be as reprehensible as some are making it out to be?
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Posted 2/21/17 , edited 2/21/17
Subtweeting aside, if you defend child molestation you cross the line from being the victim to further victimizing those who didn't "enjoy" it like you may have. There is no room for normalizing this.
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Posted 2/21/17

MysticGon wrote:
Subtweeting aside, if you defend child molestation you cross the line from being the victim to further victimizing those who didn't "enjoy" it like you may have. There is no room for normalizing this.


I am likewise a bit lost on who exactly you are upset with now. Takei did not defend child molestation. Nor did Milo for that matter. As is the norm for Amys's threads the contents don't match the label on the box.
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Posted 2/21/17 , edited 2/21/17

runec wrote:


MysticGon wrote:
Subtweeting aside, if you defend child molestation you cross the line from being the victim to further victimizing those who didn't "enjoy" it like you may have. There is no room for normalizing this.


I am likewise a bit lost on who exactly you are upset with now. Takei did not defend child molestation. Nor did Milo for that matter. As is the norm for Amys's threads the contents don't match the label on the box.


I'll make it simple. Under no circumstances is it okay for an adult to diddle a child. No matter how attracted(Tekai) the child is to you or how sexually mature(Milo) they are. You rationalize it(anyone who entertains the thought that it is okay as long as both parties are cool with it) and you definitely have my ire and disgust.
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Posted 2/21/17

MysticGon wrote:
I'll make it simple. Under no circumstances is it okay for an adult to diddle a child. No matter how attracted(Tekai) the child is to you or how sexually mature(Milo) they are. You rationalize it(anyone who entertains the thought that it is okay as long as both parties are cool with it) and you definitely have my ire and disgust.


But no one was making the argument that it's "okay for an adult to diddle a child". You're just kind of yelling into the wind here which is why its a bit perplexing. Are you disagreeing with the legal/psychological definitions? Do you have a problem with age of consent laws? I mean, I get the impression you're pushing a moral argument instead of a legal one and that's fine. But be a bit more specific then just blanket condemnation of a straw man so we can understand where you're coming from.


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Posted 2/21/17

runec wrote:


MysticGon wrote:
Subtweeting aside, if you defend child molestation you cross the line from being the victim to further victimizing those who didn't "enjoy" it like you may have. There is no room for normalizing this.


I am likewise a bit lost on who exactly you are upset with now. Takei did not defend child molestation. Nor did Milo for that matter. As is the norm for Amys's threads the contents don't match the label on the box.


He did much worse
He rationalized it
Who knows if there are victims of his own
Videos of him on Howard Stern rubbing an unwilling man's genitals seems to suggest so
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