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Post Reply Antisemitism on the rise: Teacher fired for tweet
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Posted 2/23/17 , edited 2/23/17

runec wrote:

"Some of my best friends are black" never works as a defense. I'm not even sure how "He's equally an asshole to everyone" is a valid defense. You also omitted the likes of Bannon from your defense.

As for the bomb threats, there have been 4 waves of them in the span of a few weeks coupled with a spike in anti-semetic hate crimes. It is not "business as usual".


Ah, ok, and how exactly has Trump prompted those bomb threats? He certainly hasn't explicitly told anyone that he explicitly supports them, or actively encouraged anyone to.

I mean, it's not as though Trump has unambiguously declared himself ideologically aligned with violent protesters, pushed executive actions to prevent law enforcement action against those violent protesters, and threatened to withhold federal funding from districts that actually enforced the law against specific violent protestors. I think you may be confused. That was the *last* president.
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Posted 2/23/17 , edited 2/23/17

runec wrote:

You're both correct in that giving it a platform has essentially emboldened it. However, statistically speaking there has been a notable spike in hate crime in the wake of Trump. And 69+ bomb threats against Jewish centers in 27 states ( and even 1 province in Canada ) so far in 2017 is not normal by any measure.



Oh, hey, and how many of those threats were proven legitimate, vice how many are, at this point, merely allegations?

I mean, it's not like there is an established, factually proven pattern of social activists submitting hoax reports to bolster the public profile of their pet movements lately or anything, right?
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Posted 2/23/17 , edited 2/23/17

dougeprofile wrote:
I don't make the argument that it is onthe rise, but that it has always been and that it is not Trump's fault.


I didn't say you did, I quoted the two people I was talking too there. As for whether or not it's Trump's fault; Yes, he does share some of the blame for it for reasons I already covered earlier in the thread.



dougeprofile wrote:
Trump isn't using the "my best friends are black" defense: his Jewish grand children don't believe he is an anti semite, the Jewish prime minister of the only Jewish country as well as prominent members of the Jewish community like Michael Medved proclaim him to not be an anti semite.


His Jewish grandchildren are 6, 4 and 1. =p

His Jewish daughter addressed the problem before he, the actual president, did.

Bibi is an asshole and will do whatever he has to in order to further his interests. Including put up with Trump. Though it looked like he was having some trouble with that.

Medved is a really weird choice to use as a "prominent member of the Jewish community".

And the problem here is not that Trump himself is an anti-semite ( or a white supremacist, or whatever else ) but that he has no apparent problem with associating with, surrounding himself with or hiring into his administration those with such ties. When you couple that with how it seems to take weeks of public outcry to force him to acknowledge these problems and the fact he actively lies about them because he doesn't want to lose the Shithead vote and yeah. There is most certainly an issue here.




dougeprofile wrote:
Maybe Anton shuold go (still thinking about it) - along with Clinton/Obama holdovers and thousands of civil servants ...Trump is in charge o the executive branch after all.


RIght, and what about Bannon? One of his closest advisors. Or Gorka: http://www.timesofisrael.com/top-trump-aide-wears-medal-of-hungarian-nazi-collaborators/

See the problem yet? >.>


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Posted 2/23/17 , edited 2/23/17

outontheop wrote:
Ah, ok, and how exactly has Trump prompted those bomb threats? He certainly hasn't explicitly told anyone that he explicitly supports them, or actively encouraged anyone to.

I mean, it's not as though Trump has unambiguously declared himself ideologically aligned with violent protesters, pushed executive actions to prevent law enforcement action against those violent protesters, and threatened to withhold federal funding from districts that actually enforced the law against specific violent protestors. I think you may be confused. That was the *last* president.


Ah, right, sorry. I thought you were here for an actual discussion not the usual partisan fuckery. I haven't seen you around for a while so I forgot.

My apologies. Carry on!

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Posted 2/23/17

runec wrote:

Azver wrote:
Anti-whatever isn't on the rise; it's always been there.


You're both correct in that giving it a platform has essentially emboldened it. However, statistically speaking there has been a notable spike in hate crime in the wake of Trump. And 69+ bomb threats against Jewish centers in 27 states ( and even 1 province in Canada ) so far in 2017 is not normal by any measure.

So while you can make an argument that it's not "on the rise" its just been emboldened to act more openly; Such an argument is more academic than helpful in addressing the problem.







Eh, I believe I did go bit more into the details as to why, and as such why this isn't something we need helpful addressing in.

I stand by what I said that this is a GOOD thing, that they have a platform, and are brought to sunlight to be disinfected.
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Posted 2/23/17

dougeprofile wrote:


runec wrote:

"Some of my best friends are black" never works as a defense. I'm not even sure how "He's equally an asshole to everyone" is a valid defense. You also omitted the likes of Bannon from your defense.

As for the bomb threats, there have been 4 waves of them in the span of a few weeks coupled with a spike in anti-semetic hate crimes. It is not "business as usual".

They made a Facebook post.

You're both correct in that giving it a platform has essentially emboldened it. However, statistically speaking there has been a notable spike in hate crime in the wake of Trump. And 69+ bomb threats against Jewish centers in 27 states ( and even 1 province in Canada ) so far in 2017 is not normal by any measure.

So while you can make an argument that it's not "on the rise" its just been emboldened to act more openly; Such an argument is more academic than helpful in addressing the problem.


I don't make the argument that it is on the rise, but that it has always been and that it is not Trump's fault.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/02/17/is-anti-semitism-on-the-rise-does-anyone-care/?utm_term=.011a91123d2c

Trump isn't using the "my best friends are black" defense: his Jewish grand children don't believe he is an anti semite,
This is a pretty weak argument US senator Strom Thurman was an avowed racists who playe to the wort bigotries of his constituints but to his illegitamate black daughter he's just Dad http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/05/us/south-carolina-thurmond-daughter-obit/


the Jewish prime minister of the only Jewish country as well as prominent members of the Jewish community like Michael Medved proclaim him to not be an anti semite. These antisemitic slurs just trivializes REAL anti semitism.
Netanyahu wants to expand the world wide denounced settlements that Obama was against and Trump is ok with it, making Netanyahu's endorsement unapologeticlly political as it fits with his priorities




Maybe Anton shuold go (still thinking about it).
Nothing to think about!

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Posted 2/23/17 , edited 2/23/17

runec wrote:
As for whether or not it's Trump's fault; Yes, he does share some of the blame for it for reasons I already covered earlier in the thread.

His Jewish grandchildren are 6, 4 and 1. =p

His Jewish daughter addressed the problem before he, the actual president, did.

Bibi is an asshole and will do whatever he has to in order to further his interests. Including put up with Trump. Though it looked like he was having some trouble with that.

Medved is a really weird choice to use as a "prominent member of the Jewish community".

And the problem here is not that Trump himself is an anti-semite ( or a white supremacist, or whatever else ) but that he has no apparent problem with associating with, surrounding himself with or hiring into his administration those with such ties. When you couple that with how it seems to take weeks of public outcry to force him to acknowledge these problems and the fact he actively lies about them because he doesn't want to lose the Shithead vote and yeah. There is most certainly an issue here.

See the problem yet? >.>


Yes, I see the problem with your argument. No more than the same kinds of problems other presidents have had ...other than a couple people Trump has an excellent cabinet; strain a nat, swallow a camel. Bibi had to "put up with" Obama, he is much happier with Trump. Currently there is a building boom by Palestinians in the west bank ...but a Jewish guy adds an addition onto his house and its a crisis; this is a problem Israelis and Palestinians will have to solve ...not back seat liberals like Obama to impose. Seems like you guys don't like him? To bad, the Israeli people ...and most Americans, do.

Trump's grandkids are better witnesses than the prime minister of Israel! The biggest problem seems to be Trump not being proactive enough - big whoop. The AFC is more to blame than Trump by far. Medved squashes yor argument so i can see why you would be dismissive.

Keep dissing the "s***head vote" and wallow in electoral defeat ...again ...and again ...and again.
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Posted 2/23/17 , edited 2/23/17

runec wrote:

Ah, right, sorry. I thought you were here for an actual discussion not the usual partisan fuckery. I haven't seen you around for a while so I forgot.

My apologies. Carry on!



Oh, but I NEVER forget you are here for partisan fuckery. It is, as far as I can discern, the sole notable character trait you possess.

Hey, you still have not offered any tangible counter to my point. Probably because you cannot make one that explains why Trump is a racist asshole for not explicitly condemning a particular extremism (which has ostensibly resulted in nothing worse than verbal threats) sufficiently frequently to meet your arbitrary goalposts of how much condemnation is "correct", while simultaneously explaining how Obama is excused for explicitly condoning a particular extremism (which apparently resulted in multiple deaths and much property damage), without resorting to base hypocrisy, or outright lying.

'ta!
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Posted 2/23/17
It's either all ok, or none of it is.

Flavor of the month wins again, and i'm just sitting here wondering why I even bother posting on this topic, because having an opinion might be my downfall for some reason.

fuck everyone equally, and have a nice day

JK... I respect you.... I'm sorry Disney...xD
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Posted 2/23/17 , edited 2/23/17

Azver wrote:
Eh, I believe I did go bit more into the details as to why, and as such why this isn't something we need helpful addressing in.

I stand by what I said that this is a GOOD thing, that they have a platform, and are brought to sunlight to be disinfected.


It's rather important that the leader of the most powerful nation on Earth at least makes a show of addressing it if nothing else. Especially given the unsavoury characters and ties within his own campaign. As well as his previous dodging of similar topics for political gain.

Whether or not it's a good thing really hinges on your faith in humanity though. I mean, people spent the whole campaign basically going "There's no way they'll elect Trump, I mean look at what he's said and done". If nothing else Trump has proven there is pretty much no level to which someone can sink and actually be disqualified from the highest office in the land. So I'm not putting a lot of faith in the idea that shining a light on it will make it go away or sufficient public outcry will stamp it out.

And even if it does its going to be really painful in the short term for the people being targeted by it. =/

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Posted 2/23/17 , edited 2/23/17

dougeprofile wrote:
Yes, I see the problem with your argument. No more than the same kinds of problems other presidents have had ...other than a couple people Trump has an excellent cabinet; strain a nat, swallow a camel.


Er, by what measure does Trump have an excellent cabinet? He's surrounded by sycophants, dangerously unqualified fools, dangerously powermongering opportunities like Bannon, unabashed plutocrats and blatant all around nepotism. Historically speaking, the last time someone assembled a cabinet with this much money their term ended with the Great Depression. That's not exactly reassuring.

I mean he let Bannon put himself on the security council by just signing what Bannon put in front of him without looking at it.



dougeprofile wrote:
Bibi had to "put up with" Obama, he is much happier with Trump. Currently there is a building boom by Palestinians in the west bank ...but a Jewish guy adds an addition onto his house and its a crisis; this is a problem Israelis and Palestinians will have to solve ...not back seat liberals like Obama to impose. Seems like you guys don't like him? To bad, the Israeli people ...and most Americans, do.


Bibi needs to be careful with Trump. Much like everyone else. If Bibi gave even 1/20th of the lip to Trump that he did to Obama, Trump would lose his fucking mind on Israel. Just try and picture what would happen if Bibi went around Trump to congress like he did with Obama. Trump can't even let SNL go and he has a huge hang up on not being shown the respect he feels he deserves.

Hence Bibi has to sit there while Trump blunders through not even knowing what the one and two state policy approaches entail.

Oh and no, most American's don't like Bibi. Much like Trump he has the nation extremely divided. Bibi's favourability also tends to tank every time he draws media attention to himself in the US.



dougeprofile wrote:
Trump's grandkids are better witnesses than the prime minister of Israel! The biggest problem seems to be Trump not being proactive enough - big whoop. The AFC is more to blame than Trump by far. Medved squashes yor argument so i can see why you would be dismissive.

Keep dissing the "s***head vote" and wallow in electoral defeat ...again ...and again ...and again.


It's not just a matter of being "proactive". It's a matter of his cabinet and past behaviour. Two things you conveniently ignored I see. And Medved doesn't "squash my argument". Medved provided his opinion.

And yes, I will keep dissing the shithead vote. No one should be pandering to racist shitheads for votes. If you're really going to volunteer to lump yourself in with that category then by all means go ahead I guess?







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Posted 2/23/17

runec wrote:


Azver wrote:
Stuff


It's rather important that the leader of the most powerful nation on Earth at least makes a show of addressing it if nothing else. Especially given the unsavoury characters and ties within his own campaign. As well as his previous dodging of similar topics for political gain.

Whether or not it's a good thing really hinges on your faith in humanity though. I mean, people spent the whole campaign basically going "There's no way they'll elect Trump, I mean look at what he's said and done". If nothing else Trump has proven there is pretty much no level to which someone can sink and actually be disqualified from the highest office in the land. So I'm not putting a lot of faith in the idea that shining a light on it will make it go away or sufficient public outcry will stamp it out.

And even if it does its going to be really painful in the short term for the people being targeted by it. =/



Mmmmh, so in essence your complaint is that the president who only got elected by being the less objectively evil, and more.... silly, doesn't intervene with something that isn't a new issue, in a way that would only cause problems if he would?

Last thing we want is the 'leader' of this so-called free world to tell people they can't express their views no matter how hideous they might be to you, to me, or to anyone else for reasons previously mentioned.

To compound on that consider what he got elected on, or what's cited. It's this total disconnect between what SHOULD be left's base, and the policies they drive for. You're more than welcomed to visit us here if you need an alarming case-study regarding what happens when working class party tells the working class that they're scum of the earth, and that their issues don't matter, 'cause you don't want to be racist/sexist/XYZfobe, dontcha know?

This only breeds more resentment, and more radicals, which in turn causes more "hatin' cause they ain't us". Now next worst thing after this, is causing them to hide from the general public.

No-one benefits from this, and if this presidency can shine just a sliver of light there, it's an start.

Anyway, I'll stand by what I said before, it's not a matter of humanity this or that, it's a simple fact that a radical idea does not represent majority. And not letting it fester keeps majority away from such things.

Something we should have done away with to begin with, when first nutcase identity-whacko opened their mouth. :/
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Posted 2/23/17

runec wrote:
Ah, right, sorry. I thought you were here for an actual discussion not the usual partisan fuckery. I haven't seen you around for a while so I forgot.


outontheop wrote:
Oh, but I NEVER forget you are here for partisan fuckery. It is, as far as I can discern, the sole notable character trait you possess.


Both of you -- if you can't treat each other with a bit more respect when discussing this, I suggest not replying to each other at all. Please stay on topic and leave your personal feelings about each other out of it.

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Azver wrote:
Mmmmh, so in essence your complaint is that the president who only got elected by being the less objectively evil, and more.... silly, doesn't intervene with something that isn't a new issue, in a way that would only cause problems if he would?


"Less objectively evil" is a pretty big stretch to be honest. There's nothing Hillary did or was accused of doing that Trump didn't or hasn't done on a greater magnitude.



Azver wrote:Last thing we want is the 'leader' of this so-called free world to tell people they can't express their views no matter how hideous they might be to you, to me, or to anyone else for reasons previously mentioned.


My Poe's Law detector is pretty busted from this political cycle. Are you serious? Because bomb threats aren't free speech and said leader of the free world is running a full on war with the free press atm.



Azver wrote:To compound on that consider what he got elected on, or what's cited. It's this total disconnect between what SHOULD be left's base, and the policies they drive for. You're more than welcomed to visit us here if you need an alarming case-study regarding what happens when working class party tells the working class that they're scum of the earth, and that their issues don't matter, 'cause you don't want to be racist/sexist/XYZfobe, dontcha know?


I'm Canadian thanks and the "political correctness" meme is a tired argument. The election ultimately swung on Comey. While it's true Clinton lost some ground in traditionally blue areas, Trump likewise lost some ground in traditionally red areas. Trump was also completely unfettered by restraints like reality and human decency. Which, much to the country's surprised, turned out to not actually be a problem.

If there's one thing Trump has demonstrated it's that the decency, checks and balances of the US political system were effectively an illusion. Now no one seems to know what to do about it because no one considered that someone would so flagrantly ignore them.



Azver wrote:
Something we should have done away with to begin with, when first nutcase identity-whacko opened their mouth. :/


Well, the problem is they elected the first one. >.>




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uncletim wrote:


TheAngryLittleAlchemist wrote:


rawratl wrote:

Nice, the Holocaust denier is worried about antisemitism now.


Trump denied the holocaust ???????


Well seeing how in his holocaust remembrance day speech he didn't mention the Jews probably on orders from Steve Bannon
http://time.com/4652863/white-house-statement-holocaust-remembrance-day/


So saying the holocaust was bad counts as denying it?
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Posted 2/24/17 , edited 2/25/17

jtjumper wrote:

So saying the holocaust was bad counts as denying it?


Well it's like saying how bad the bombing of Japanese cities without mentioning Hiroshima or Nagasaki it rings kind of hallow

Honestly would mentioning the Jews have taken anything away from any of those many other groups?

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