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Post Reply Hate Crime Shooting in Kansas City
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Posted 2/24/17 , edited 2/24/17

outontheop wrote:

...and was he asking so he could denigrate you, or was he was asking out of genuine concern, maybe worried about accidentally feeding you something wrong if you came to visit? I mean, I ask people if they have any allergies if I'm going to feed them something with peanuts in it. Asking someone isn't racist, it's just curiosity, often with a legitimate (in their mind) reason behind the question.

If I meet someone with an accent, I usually ask where they're from, because I'm genuinely curious. It's the same thing with a white guy with an eastern european accent, or a black guy with a northeastern accent, or a black guy with a carribean accent. Doesn't mean I have anything against any of them, just that it's interesting to me. Why would your first reaction to being asked be (apparently) taking offense or being annoyed?


No no, he meant no harm and I knew that. We were at a Korean restaurant and I said I was going to order the crispy pork belly, so I think he was just curious. My point is the assumption people make that if you are Indian (or half in my case) that you are Muslim. The country is 80% Hindu so why would people assume Indians are more likely to be Muslim? My first name is John, not Mohammed and if anything I have a southern accent. I'm sure he knows it isn't in the Middle East, and I'm positive he could even find it on a map. J

Just a thought I've always had when I meet people, I know 99% of them aren't being racist when they ask me about being Middle Eastern/Muslim. I find it strange the correlation people make between India and the Middle East/ Muslims.
Posted 2/24/17 , edited 2/24/17
Fear of Middle Easterners has been climbing since the early 90's, at the very least, and sped up with 911 and events that followed. With or without Trump, or any other politician in office, it's been well on its way. Although I don't believe the fear is without cause, this kind of unhinged brutality oughtn't be tolerated. I note that ostentatious hate crimes, much less, shootings, are far from the norm. I feel it's inappropriate to write this horrendous incident off as something normal. The sick, blood-thirsty bastard even had the audacity to brag. I hope he's locked up where the sun doesn't shine, at least.
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Posted 2/24/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:

If that cuck that tried to save them had a gun he wouldn't have gotten shot up so bad.


lol wtf?
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Posted 2/24/17 , edited 2/24/17
Things like this make wonder if I should rethink my anti-death penalty position. I won't lie, I'm not exactly upset that Dylan Roof is getting the needle, and I probably won't be if this guy does either.
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Posted 2/24/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

You're a fucking idiot Amyas.


Not an argument.

On topic, the shooter looks like a dopehead. So glad Sessions is in to put an end to this



No it was just a truthful statement
and considering Sessions past he will probably pin a medal on him for shooting a brown skin immigrant
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Posted 2/24/17 , edited 2/24/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:

The shooter looks like a dopehead. So glad Sessions is in to put an end to this




Amyas_Leigh wrote:

Nothing wrong with drinks and guns


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Posted 2/24/17 , edited 2/24/17

uncletim wrote:


I don't know sounds very racial to me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJv6CplYQPU

also this guy is a fucking hero
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjQOy4MVvJM
A real American


Ok, the *newscaster* characterizes it as "bragging", but the actual witness did not say that. We know that the guy said "get out of my country", but we do not know if the driving cause of the attack was purely racism, or if he was angry at them for other reasons. The 911 caller says the shooter told her he "did something bad", and admitted that he "had done something really bad" and told her that he had shot and killed "two Iranian people". Witnesses say he used racial slurs at some point, but it's not clear if that was before or after some other confrontation sparked it.

None of those things are admissions that he shot them because they were another race; it just means that he used racial slurs, and nothing more. Guy is a murderer either way, but to immediately assume that he shot them solely because of race is a HUGE assumption.

Hypothetical: if a drunk girl in a bar slaps you for no reason, you responding with "you bitch!" does not make you a misogynist, it's just that you're angry at her actions, and want to voice your anger at her, but not personally knowing her, can only base any insult on what you can deduce about her from her appearance and what actions you've seen. Would "you asshole" be more appropriate? Maybe, but who cares? The point is that the anger isn't based on her being a woman, and using a gendered insult (or racist one) can be incidental, and not the root cause of the anger that prompts you to throw an insult.

Ultimately, what does it matter whether he's a racist or not? Does it make murder any less bad if it's not based on race? Does it make the victim any less dead? I think all murder is a "hate crime"; you generally don't murder someone you like -_-
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Posted 2/24/17

geauxtigers1989 wrote:

Things like this make wonder if I should rethink my anti-death penalty position. I won't lie, I'm not exactly upset that Dylan Roof is getting the needle, and I probably won't be if this guy does either.


Oh, so if someone kills someone because of racism, they deserve one punishment, but if they kill someone based on ANY OTHER reason (even just because they enjoy killing), they deserve a different punishment? Are you saying that minority lives are more valuable than white lives, and therefore murder directed against them should carry harsher sentencing?

That is absurd. Same crime, same punishment.
Posted 2/24/17

octorockandroll wrote:


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>drinking alcohol is just as socially acceptable and has the same physical effects as hard drugs
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Posted 2/24/17

outontheop wrote:


uncletim wrote:


I don't know sounds very racial to me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJv6CplYQPU

also this guy is a fucking hero
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjQOy4MVvJM
A real American


Ok, the *newscaster* characterizes it as "bragging", but the actual witness did not say that. We know that the guy said "get out of my country", but we do not know if the driving cause of the attack was purely racism, or if he was angry at them for other reasons. The 911 caller says the shooter told her he "did something bad", and admitted that he "had done something really bad" and told her that he had shot and killed "two Iranian people". Witnesses say he used racial slurs at some point, but it's not clear if that was before or after some other confrontation sparked it.

None of those things are admissions that he shot them because they were another race; it just means that he used racial slurs, and nothing more. Guy is a murderer either way, but to immediately assume that he shot them solely because of race is a HUGE assumption.

Hypothetical: if a drunk girl in a bar slaps you for no reason, you responding with "you bitch!" does not make you a misogynist, it's just that you're angry at her actions, and want to voice your anger at her, but not personally knowing her, can only base any insult on what you can deduce about her from her appearance and what actions you've seen. Would "you asshole" be more appropriate? Maybe, but who cares? The point is that the anger isn't based on her being a woman, and using a gendered insult (or racist one) can be incidental, and not the root cause of the anger that prompts you to throw an insult.

Ultimately, what does it matter whether he's a racist or not? Does it make murder any less bad if it's not based on race? Does it make the victim any less dead? I think all murder is a "hate crime"; you generally don't murder someone you like -_-


OMG what does it take to convince you? Would have to been wear KKK robes and holding a picture of Hitler while shouting "I am shooting these because of their race" then whistling Dixie while he shot them would that convince you?

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Posted 2/24/17 , edited 2/24/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:


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>drinking alcohol is just as socially acceptable and has the same physical effects as hard drugs


Alcohol: hard drug

Cannabis: Not a hard drug
https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_and_soft_drugs

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Posted 2/24/17

outontheop wrote:
Oh, so if someone kills someone because of racism, they deserve one punishment, but if they kill someone based on ANY OTHER reason (even just because they enjoy killing), they deserve a different punishment? Are you saying that minority lives are more valuable than white lives, and therefore murder directed against them should carry harsher sentencing?


I'm saying I won't be shedding any tears for this guy if he gets the death penalty.
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Posted 2/24/17 , edited 2/24/17


Yeah I don't think there is any doubt that this was motivated by their color/presumed ethnicity. The interview I saw said he picked a fight with the gentlemen and started with the racial slurs, which prompted Ian Grillot to stand up for them. Do you think he would have defended them if he saw them starting the right? He was removed from the bar (not the Indians, which would have been the case if they had started it), and then came back and started shooting. From what I've read this was a man who had a very definite drinking problem and was clearly unhinged.
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Posted 2/24/17
So feeling for another human being and trying to save them, even though they are not directly related to you .... is bad?

In my opinion, it is that 'every man for himself' attitude that just keeps making us more divided and hateful.

Also: It doesn't make you a 'liberal softie' if you have basic human empathy. That is a rare and valuable skill nowadays.
Posted 2/24/17

YayForKittens wrote:

So feeling for another human being and trying to save them, even though they are not directly related to you .... is bad?

In my opinion, it is that 'every man for himself' attitude that just keeps making us more divided and hateful.

Also: It doesn't make you a 'liberal softie' if you have basic human empathy. That is a rare and valuable skill nowadays.

If I were being shot to death, would you jump in front of the gunman to save me?
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