First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
Post Reply Abortion: serious & painful ...or no big deal
runec 
37225 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 2/26/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:
In terms of whose morals, I would say decide your own.

Though in response, there is no problem with taking a moral response. That is the problem. My main criticism at Karate was that, one cannot take a scientific fact and deem it moral, or support a moral claim with just facts; you can extrapolate moral claims based on facts, or none at all. The moral claims are subjective, and require a reasoning far beyond what is, but what we should do in regards to it.

I wasn't arguing for or against abortion, due to working out a logically consistent set of morals, I just thought it was stupid to tout just a fact as evidence or reason, or the supposition that scientists agree with him in large numbers due to this fact.


A moral response is fine but yes, you can't conflate it with scientific fact. I didn't mean to imply you were arguing for or against there. I was basically mumbling adjacent to philosophy there but didn't want to quote pyramid the whole thing. My apologies.
3358 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
32 / M / North Dakota
Offline
Posted 2/26/17
I can see that there may be some valid reasons for abortion, but I do think it's wrong in general and a decision that should be taken very seriously. "Valid" reason is also very hard to determine and would be very rare.

It's as big a deal as killing anyone who isn't yourself - they are most definitely alive, thinking, and feeling, while in the womb - even in the first trimester. We know based on their reaction to things like needles that they feel pain as pain, and we know they react to other stimuli from a very early stage. They hear, so it follows to reason that they also think and have a consciousness.

Lets say you're going to have an abortion to save the child from a very hard life - lets say he/she is going to be born into a post-apocalyptic wasteland... explain to me how ending their life is still a better choice than giving them a chance? Pain is part of life, and life can be hard, that's no reason to kill "just in-case" and it isn't fair to decide that for a tiny little human that can't do anything about YOUR choice to not give them a chance.

If, for instance, there was a guarantee that the mother would die if the baby wasn't aborted, and somehow a cesarean section birth wasn't an option, I could maybe see abortion as a legitimate choice, but even then it comes down to weighing the value of two lives. I couldn't in good conscience do something like that unless it was very obvious disparity (like, murderer vs. me, I choose me). I don't know too many serial murderer fetuses.

The more I think on this subject the more pro-life I am - you could be aborting the next Leonardo Davinci or Nikola Tesla. It disturbs me that so many avid supporters of abortion also happen to be into shit like the occult and take the decision lightly saying things like "but it's not a human" - you were one - therefore a fetus IS human. That's the most dumb-ass argument I've ever heard, ever, in my life. I want to strangle people when I hear that kind of crap.
737 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / F
Offline
Posted 2/27/17
Whether abortion is a serious decision or not differs from person to person and depends on their views and so forth. For example, I personally think that abortion would be no big deal to me. This is because I believe it is the soul that makes a person a person and in my personal belief, a baby doesn't normally get it's soul until the mother's water breaks (though the soul does hover outside of the womb for the last 2 to 3 months of the pregnancy and can attach if she gets a C-section). If a baby is miscarried or is still-born, then that means that a soul never attached to it (so if my belief is right, a mother will not meet their aborted/miscarried child in heaven/the after-life since it was never anything but a soul-less vessel. Of course, I keep this opinion to myself since it may hurt other people's feelings). Whatever soul would've attached to the aborted or miscarried child will simply seek out another vessel (so the next Leonardo Davinci or Nikola Tesla could still be born, just with a different body and a different family). Also, I'm not currently in any relationship; so, the only way I could become pregnant is if someone raped me. I don't think I could accept a child from a rapist (and since I have Aspergers, I wouldn't be a good mother anyways). Sure, I could probably let the pregnancy go full term, deliver the child (which will be painful), and send it to be adopted, but their are several flaws with that:

1.) Since my mother got back problems after being pregnant with me, there is a good chance that I would get back problems too.
2.) As I said, child birth is very painful. Why should I go through it for a child I don't want?
3.) Society would probably guilt me into keeping the child anyways. Why do you think there are so many abusive/neglectful mothers? Why, if they didn't want their child, did they not simply send them off to be adopted? It's because their friends/family/society itself pressured them into keeping their children!

Of course, this is just my opinion and my personal views of the situation.
Posted 2/27/17 , edited 2/27/17

runec wrote:


GrandMasterTime wrote:
So I'm not saying that you don't want this to happen but you don't want this to happen?


If you're not saying that I don't want this to happen you wouldn't have asked this question to begin with. -.-

Saying there's no chance of something happening isn't rendering approval/disapproval of that thing happening. There's no chance I'd win the lottery but that doesn't mean I'm saying it wouldn't be nice if I did.


I'm not saying you don't want something like to happen but I am strongly suspicious of people who counter moral qualms with economic qualms. We should always work towards "What is right" or any moral oughts we have. Well, that's if you're into the morality stuff.

9210 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / M / Ark-La-Tex
Offline
Posted 2/27/17 , edited 2/27/17
rights of a woman > rights of an embryo.
runec 
37225 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 2/27/17

GrandMasterTime wrote:
I'm not saying you don't want something like to happen but I am strongly suspicious of people who counter moral qualms with economic qualms. We should always work towards "What is right" or any moral oughts we have. Well, that's if you're into the morality stuff.


I didn't counter a moral qualm with an economic qualm. Mystic is the one that introduced the economy into it in response to Ocale. I was countering the wishful thinking of betting on the economy to solve everything. -.-
3595 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / F
Offline
Posted 2/28/17
I think it depends on the person. I don't think it's right to tell people how you think they should feel.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.