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Post Reply New FCC Chairman Killing Net Neutrality
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26 / F / Connecticut
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Posted 2/26/17 , edited 2/26/17
Net neutrality is an odd concept, mainly as the internet isn't truly a CIR (committed information rate) type of service, especially given your traffic has go through quite a few carriers to reach you in most cases (not just Comcast/Charter or Verizon/AT&T), IE: Cogent, Level3, XO Communications, etc. Many of those don't necessarily have the capacity to handle the type of load put on their links. Nevertheless, we still shouldn't be running QoS and throttling any internet traffic, all of it should be treated the same by carriers. Netflix for example shouldn't be able to pay more money to get guaranteed internet bandwidth to residential subscribers on a certain residential carrier like Altice or CenturyLink from their data center in Ashburn, VA, or more cross county priority on Megapath...Let's say. Same goes for something like Comcast and their own streaming service, let's say.

Funny thing is though even with net neutrality, given the infrastructure of the internet (various AS's, aka autonomous systems, with varying bandwidth capacities geographically linking up with other companies and government AS's across the globe), one company may yet be able to get better bandwidth by having data centers localized to the people who need them...IE: hooked up directly to the residential service provider like Charter rather than some data center in California hooked up to Level3 or whatever. Netflix has been pushing a direct connect thing to get Data Centers hooked up directly to ISPs for example, bypassing the other carriers. This is hard for the little guy to compete with, yet still doesn't violate net neutrality rules, it's just easier to transport content to where it's ordered from there.
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Posted 2/26/17 , edited 2/27/17

kinga750 wrote:


DeadlyOats wrote:

I'm already seeing the effects.


No you aren't, and that's an absurd conclusion to jump to just because your connection is running slow.


When I go to all of the speed test sites, I'm shown full speeds. When I go to my favorite websites, some of them (the video streaming ones) are buffering, and others are loading their pages really slowly. These are issues I did not have before.
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26 / F / Connecticut
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Posted 2/26/17 , edited 2/27/17

DeadlyOats wrote:


kinga750 wrote:


DeadlyOats wrote:

I'm already seeing the effects.


No you aren't, and that's an absurd conclusion to jump to just because your connection is running slow.


When I go to all of the speed test sites, I'm shown full speeds. When I go to my favorite websites, some of them (the video streaming ones) are buffering, and others are loading their pages really slowly. These are issues I did not have before.


The connection speed your ISP sells you generally only applies near or within their Autonomous System (network). This is with or without net neutrality in play. This is also why you'll generally see your max speeds come up when you do speed tests. Test servers tend to be easily accessible, at least the default ones.

To keep up with your "paid speed", three of the following other conditions must be met for longer haul traffic.

A: The far end needs to have enough disk read/write or upload/download capacity for your request.
B: The pipes (other carriers) leading your destination need enough capacity. Their interconnects also need sufficient capacity.
C: You can't be hit by QoS (quality of service) shaping in a negative way by any of said carriers. IE: Throttling

C is the only item affected by net neutrality. Being affected by A and B is far more typical...
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45 / M / WA
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Posted 2/26/17 , edited 2/27/17
Seems like it might take an act of congress to scrap those bureaucratic regulations. Bye bye, don't ...please let the door hit you on the way out!
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Posted 2/27/17 , edited 2/27/17

karatecowboy wrote:


clusters wrote:


Yeah, it's an integral part of networking. The problem is when ISPs start prioritizing only the traffic they're being paid to. Doubt Crunchyroll has enough money to grease all these palms so they don't get throttled.


I think that's a lot of fear-mongering. It's like saying the Post Office shouldn't be allowed to offer priority shipping, because Amazon could afford it but not your local business. Not reality.

You're fixing something that's not broken; the government loves this because fixing not-broken things allows the government to grab more power, usually breaking other things in the process.


YOUR side is the one that fearmongers... The incumbent ISPs threw shit fits over the FCC raising the broadband definition to 25MB download speeds (which showed how little competition they have), sued to prevent Google Fiber from developing, panicked over being classified as utility companies, gave contracts that forcefully kept customers paying for their services to destroy competitors, and a whole bunch of other abuses.

The government has way too many different pieces of varying helpfulness for you to just messily slap the label of "BIG BROTHER" over all of it

ISPs are not the fucking same as Post offices. The comparison isn't even close; the only thing that share is that they quickly deliver things across a network of paths; that doesn't change the fact that they are FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT. Net neutrality is not about government power grabs; it has nothing to do with the mass surveillance programs the government is running and nothing to do with gov agents tampering with any hardware. The point of the internet is that EVERYONE gets equally instant access to INFORMATION (the LAST thing that should be tainted by business maneuvering) no matter what that information is. It is not about fixing something that is or is not broken, it's about fixing something that's corrupted, imbalanced, deficient, or whatever word that describes something working improperly.
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Posted 2/27/17 , edited 2/27/17

karatecowboy wrote:
It's governments, not corporations, that have caused the most suffering and tyranny throughout history.

Governments still cause suffering, yes, and I can think of a few examples that match historical levels. That's not exactly how the problems with OUR government should be viewed, though. We actually DO need to do more about the problems with corporations nowadays...


Crappy governments don't dissolve when people decide to stop paying them (taxes) because they're getting crappy service.

Current incumbent ISPs are the same, except only a portion of people get crappy service, but many of them can't deal with the difficulties for leaving the service so...

No corporation could run like our federal government -- a $20,000,000,000,000 + debt, and still stay in business.

That's being managed in a way that makes it a low-tier problem for our government (I could be wrong here, though). Are you suggesting the government should serve the creditors over the people?


Government = Corporation + Monopoly - Fiscal Accountability + Virtual Immortality

Which is why our government is THE MOST regulated body of power in our country. Some parts of it are under-regulated, but I can't think of any part of it that has too many regulations placed on it (I'm genuinely curious if you have any examples of that).
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Posted 2/27/17

DeadlyOats wrote:
When I go to all of the speed test sites, I'm shown full speeds. When I go to my favorite websites, some of them (the video streaming ones) are buffering, and others are loading their pages really slowly. These are issues I did not have before.


If it's only happening on the video streaming sites, then maybe it has something to with your video player program on your computer and less to do with one site's traffic being favored over another. Other than having issues with Crunchyroll on Saturday, which usually runs slow for me on the weekends anyways because of more people using it, that was related to the server not connecting with Cloudflare properly, which also could be related to the Cloudflare leak, I haven't had any issues on any other sites. I have a fast internet connection and I've used Crunchyroll, Netflix and YouTube, as well as other sites where I didn't stream videos on, over the last couple of days, and they've all worked fine for me. Perhaps you need to update your video player?
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Posted 2/27/17

tbtalbot wrote:

There is no net neutrality LAW. That's the problem when you use regulations by agencies instead of laws by congress. The problem with net neutrality regs in US is that it is making the addition of new bandwidth unprofitable, putting US consumers further behind other countries.


It's not net neutrality regulations that are making US ISPs spend all their money on stock buybacks instead of network upgrades.
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Posted 2/27/17 , edited 2/27/17

BlackRose0607 wrote:


DeadlyOats wrote:
When I go to all of the speed test sites, I'm shown full speeds. When I go to my favorite websites, some of them (the video streaming ones) are buffering, and others are loading their pages really slowly. These are issues I did not have before.


If it's only happening on the video streaming sites, then maybe it has something to with your video player program on your computer and less to do with one site's traffic being favored over another. Other than having issues with Crunchyroll on Saturday, which usually runs slow for me on the weekends anyways because of more people using it, that was related to the server not connecting with Cloudflare properly, which also could be related to the Cloudflare leak, I haven't had any issues on any other sites. I have a fast internet connection and I've used Crunchyroll, Netflix and YouTube, as well as other sites where I didn't stream videos on, over the last couple of days, and they've all worked fine for me. Perhaps you need to update your video player?


Some web pages also load slow, and some youtube videos also get affected. And everything is up to date on my Kubuntu 16.04 install.
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Posted 2/27/17 , edited 2/27/17

DeadlyOats wrote:
Some web pages also load slow, and some youtube videos also get affected. And everything is up to date on my Kubuntu 16.04 install.


You need to run diagnostics and get help from people who really know what they are talking about. Not many here (myself included). A little knowledge is often less helpful than none.

First I would contact your ISP. It is their responsibility to provide you with the service you are paying for. Or try a tech site where experienced users will ask for logs and help you isolate the problem, assuming it's on your end. To be real though, simply saying your connection "feels" slow isn't going to get you very far.
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37 / M / Houston, Texas
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Posted 2/27/17 , edited 2/27/17

kinga750 wrote:


DeadlyOats wrote:

I'm already seeing the effects.


No you aren't, and that's an absurd conclusion to jump to just because your connection is running slow.


How can people believe this changed that quick? Government is known to be a slow monolith, and a guy just getting
the job a month ago is in no way ALREADY affecting your network speeds... smh
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Posted 2/27/17 , edited 2/27/17

ssjwes1980 wrote:


kinga750 wrote:


DeadlyOats wrote:

I'm already seeing the effects.


No you aren't, and that's an absurd conclusion to jump to just because your connection is running slow.


How can people believe this changed that quick? Government is known to be a slow monolith, and a guy just getting
the job a month ago is in no way ALREADY affecting your network speeds... smh


The government only announced that it wasn't going to enforce Net Neutrality. It will take a long time for them to rewrite the rules, but AT&T, Comcast, and company, are acting lightning fast to make the changes they want.


kinga750 wrote:


DeadlyOats wrote:
Some web pages also load slow, and some youtube videos also get affected. And everything is up to date on my Kubuntu 16.04 install.


You need to run diagnostics and get help from people who really know what they are talking about. Not many here (myself included). A little knowledge is often less helpful than none.

First I would contact your ISP. It is their responsibility to provide you with the service you are paying for. Or try a tech site where experienced users will ask for logs and help you isolate the problem, assuming it's on your end. To be real though, simply saying your connection "feels" slow isn't going to get you very far.


Yeah. I guess I'll call the ISP. Maybe they'll stop messing with my service. I am paying for really high speeds, and shouldn't be seeing these slow speeds.
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