First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
Post Reply Engaging trolls in debate
26548 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / F / FL
Offline
Posted 3/6/17
guys..this si too much to read..

besides trolls don't care to debate anything serious anyway
just look at me
86918 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
45 / M / WA
Offline
Posted 3/6/17

dulun18 wrote:

the term "trolls" keeping being throw around a lot..

but what is a troll? the definition is not the same from person to person

it's not just because you didn't like or agree with another person's point of view--


Agree. The term "troll" gets thrown around too much.
mxdan 
11675 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / A Husk.
Offline
Posted 3/6/17 , edited 3/6/17
Troll is almost a toxic word. It sort of reaffirms a separate identity a person may be forming. Regardless of what a person is doing you shouldn't reaffirm an identity that validates a separation. Then they really start to become that 'thing'.

Pure confrontation on well thought out ideas shows a window into how their mind is working. In my opinion, it's on based on a form of arrested development in which someone needs to feel validated in front of someone. More then likely, some sort of fulfillment is missing from their life that leads them to fight for the argument itself rather than an answer to something. In fact, trolls more often then not don't even care about the question at hand, just the dialogue between them and other people.

A ban is probably the only way to affectively deal with people like this because we probably can't fix their personal issues over the internet.

21117 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
36 / M / SoFlo
Offline
Posted 3/6/17
School Days is a fantastic slice of life with a heartwarming ending.

Am I doing it right?
Posted 3/6/17

MysticGon wrote:

Just ignore them.


19826 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M
Offline
Posted 3/6/17

starshots wrote:


MysticGon wrote:

Just ignore them.




37813 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 3/6/17 , edited 3/6/17
In my experience there are only two useful options. First and most obvious, just say your piece and then don't reply. Second, treat them with overwhelming kindness and respect. Being mean to someone who is deliberately being nice to you isn't easy for most people.
15855 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 3/6/17
I'm not sure that you can debate anything with anyone when it doesn't seem like you want to discuss anything, but rather make people agree with you or at the very least beat them into submission so that they don't openly disagree with you.
Ejanss 
16967 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 3/6/17 , edited 3/6/17

dulun18 wrote:

the term "trolls" keeping being throw around a lot..

but what is a troll? the definition is not the same from person to person


Although the origin of "Troll" was thought to be from Norwegian ogres that live under bridges, the root in fact comes from "Trolling", ie. "trawling", the act of dragging a big fishing net in the water indiscriminately and catching as many fish as possible. If you trawl, you're not picky which fish you get, so long as you GET SOME.

That is the definition of a "Troll": Shameless attention-whoring, even if it means a patently phony vaudeville act.
They don't care what responses they get, they show off how many responses they get, and gloat insufferably in their victims' faces that they were "stupid enough" to respond.
That's because the troll doesn't see fellow Internet users as faces, he sees them as an "audience" that he has the pathetic little power to "manipulate", because of whatever limited corny cliche' ideas he has about them, seeing as he doesn't get out much. (Eg. Star Trek fans are "nerds", and nerds always fight each other, so start a Kirk vs. Picard war, or watch anime fans get all huffy and red-faced if you say "Chinese porn cartoons" because you hate Naruto, etc.)

Although once a group does start wising up and ostracizing the troll, or sic'ing the Moderators on him instead of playing along with the "game", all of a sudden he usually turns on the Trump-butthurt act, and cries that the group has "turned into a big fascist hive-mind" trying to "stifle his First-Amendment posting"--
Gee, you'd think he'd be a lot happier that we were all a lot more intelligent all of a sudden...
55149 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
101 / M
Offline
Posted 3/6/17 , edited 3/6/17

foraslan wrote:

This thread is largely in the spirit of one nanikore made quite a while back, which you can read here:
http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-892521/how-can-we-help-forum-trolls?pg=0

So, the basic idea of this thread is to generate discussion about dealing with trolls in a constructive manner (yes, I think it's possible). Unfortunately, the previous thread was locked for unspecified reasons, and didn't end up producing anything useful.

Here's my take. In the past, I have had modest success getting trolls on various forums, video comment sections, and live-feed news comment areas to have a real conversation with me. In the process, it got me to think about why the person might be trolling, and how that affects your ability to turn discussion toward a more peaceful conclusion. I came up with about 3 kinds of people who you will see trolling:

1. People who just like being assholes- These guys just enjoy the conflict. They are usually (though not always) consciously aware that they are trolling. There is no reasoning with them, simply because they don't want to be reasoned with, and they get a kick out of the whole process.

2. People who are fed up with [insert insult that provides a good-guy/bad-guy feeling, like 'idiots', 'communists', or 'cons']- These trolls might or might not realize what they are doing. Some of them feel like they're dealing with idiots and other trolls, so they might as well troll. Others see the people opposite their position as villains, and feel justified in telling them exactly how horrible they are. Can often be reasoned with.

3. Legitimately unstable people- similar to the above group, but with a major difference: they almost certainly don't think they are trolling, and could not possibly be made to realize they are. They also have a hard time seeing how other people don't understand how they are obviously right.

Unfortunately, you cannot tell these apart without trying really hard to get them to stop trolling. If you are going to attempt that, you MUST be prepared for a long back-and-forth where the troll will call you names, and generally say rude things that you will want to react to. But you can't. You have to stay on target, with a specific point or topic you are trying to call attention to. You can point out that their remarks aren't relevant to the topic at hand, and you can (and should) try to understand what their beliefs on the matter are, and what perspective their argument is from. You should NOT tell them they are trolling; doing so rarely accomplishes anything but making the other party defensive.

Recently, it has come to my attention that, somewhere along the line, I ended up joining group #2, and stopped trying to really understand what people are saying and why they say it. I know why, too. It's laziness. It's a pain in the neck trying to figure out why people think things that, from my perspective, are obviously wrong or nonsensical. Specifically, I realized it after joining in the trolling here: http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-980291/capitalist-fantasy-logic#55596771

So from now on I am going to refrain from thoughtless comments in any and all debate threads. Game threads, for fun areas, and the like are not included, of course. I would like as many people as are willing to do the same, and to call me out if I break rank and start making any kind of personal attack, or dismiss opinions without at least providing a reason of some kind.

Finally, what do you all think? Can trolls be reformed (not in a permanent sense)? How should we go about engaging them (and people in general) in meaningful debate? How can we keep ourselves in line, to make sure WE don't contribute to the trolling?




I'm not number 3 am I? :p

Ejanss 
16967 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 3/6/17 , edited 3/6/17

JanusCascade wrote:
I'm not number 3 am I? :p


No, you're #5, the "Trademark Troll", who thinks it's hilarious and postmodern to post the exact same running-joke or online-Halloween-costume at the complete non-sequitir expense of any rational conversation.
And instead of getting attention or applause, pretty much drags every conversation to a screeching halt by turning it ENTIRELY to himself while having absolutely nothing to say or add to further the discussion.

Only the ones who want to "play along" ever respond at first, but after a while, even they get tired of the broken record, seeing as there's never anything to add to the one autistic joke:
Since the Trademark Troll doesn't engage the other poster, he doesn't seduce/con/manipulate the other poster into a chain of responses, and instead, his attention-getting posts just sort of....SIT there, like a big ol' log in the middle of the road, that everyone has to grudgingly pause and step over.
55149 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
101 / M
Offline
Posted 3/6/17

Ejanss wrote:


JanusCascade wrote:
I'm not number 3 am I? :p


No, you're #5, the "Trademark Troll", who thinks it's hilarious and postmodern to post the exact same running-joke or online-Halloween-costume at the complete non-sequitir expense of any rational conversation.
And instead of getting attention or applause, pretty much drags every conversation to a screeching halt by turning it ENTIRELY to himself while having absolutely nothing to say or add to further the discussion.

Only the ones who want to "play along" ever respond at first, but after a while, even they get tired of the broken record, seeing as there's never anything to add to the one autistic joke:
Since the Trademark Troll doesn't engage the other poster, he doesn't seduce/con/manipulate the other poster into a chain of responses, and instead, his attention-getting posts just sort of....SIT there, like a big ol' log in the middle of the road, that everyone has to grudgingly pause and step over.


Number 5, Why I'm Honored! Its alway related to the post, but was role playing as Marcus Octavius from Highlander: The Search for Vengence. If you don't like it, just simply move on to next post.

runec 
38564 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 3/6/17

sundin13 wrote:

How should we engage them? With bans. It doesn't matter why they are trolling, the impact is the same. Now obviously "trolling" is a bit of a broad statement, so moderation should be handled in a sensible, case by case manner, but the point remains.


+2.

Unfortunately, GD is one of the most lenient forums I've ever been a part of in this regard. Sometimes to a genuinely baffling degree.
55149 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
101 / M
Offline
Posted 3/6/17
I alway assumed the trolls are the one with small amount of CR points like below 200 points, and they just delete that account and remake another one.
Ejanss 
16967 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 3/6/17

JanusCascade wrote:


Ejanss wrote:
Since the Trademark Troll doesn't engage the other poster, he doesn't seduce/con/manipulate the other poster into a chain of responses, and instead, his attention-getting posts just sort of....SIT there, like a big ol' log in the middle of the road, that everyone has to grudgingly pause and step over.


Number 5, Why I'm Honored! Its alway related to the post, but was role playing as Marcus Octavius from Highlander: The Search for Vengence. If you don't like it, just simply move on to next post.


Well, I may have to, there's nothing you can really...um....DO with that response, is there? I mean, I'm stuck here, any suggestions?
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.