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Buddhism
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Posted 2/15/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:


dkcy209 wrote:


buddhism practice tolerance.



Really? Then explain why the Buddhist theocracy oh Bhutan is so harsh on non Buddhist and how they treated non Buddhist refugees. Or why when the lamas ruled Tibet they harshly oppressed anyone who put a toe out of line.


In Buddhisme they dont realy say anything about puniching those who are not Buddhist. Well If you notce it many use religion as a excuse to harm another in history like Christianity in the middle-age or terrorist that use Islam. Did buddha every teaches hes student to harm those that is not Buddhist?

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Posted 2/15/08 , edited 4/18/08
haha...good point.

I will say this in general instead of only buddhism

humans intepret religions in accordance to their own selfishness (buddhism is no exception too, history have full of examples on other persecution of other religions).

what is good or evil?

there is always cause and effect or karma.

buddhism is more than a religion, it is a philosophy as well. do read it up as there is a great emphasis on tolerance.
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Posted 2/15/08 , edited 4/18/08
I'm not buddist.. but I respect its belief.
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Posted 2/15/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:


Erijo wrote:


magnus102 wrote:


dkcy209 wrote:


buddhism practice tolerance.



Really? Then explain why the Buddhist theocracy oh Bhutan is so harsh on non Buddhist and how they treated non Buddhist refugees. Or why when the lamas ruled Tibet they harshly oppressed anyone who put a toe out of line.


In Buddhisme they dont realy say anything about puniching those who are not Buddhist. Well If you notce it many use religion as a excuse to harm another in history like Christianity in the middle-age or terrorist that use Islam. Did buddha every teaches hes student to harm those that is not Buddhist?



It still the fault of Buddhism . Just as Islam and Christianity are responsible for crimes committed for those religions. You really can not argue there is a difference. After all the bible says "thouh shall not kill". People in the bible do buy hey lets ignore that. The very nature of religion will cause things like this to occur because of dogmatic thinking. If you are willing to condemn the lamas and admit they are inheritors of a monstrous system then YOU might be a good person but the religion itself it no better than any other.


Well you have a point there. To say this humans are creedy and thinks only about them self best. So its always ann black hole in every light and always a light in every darkplace. my point is that is always a person that will do something "bad" in the organization hes in more or less he thinks the oposite of the organization stans for. Well i dont see Buddhisme much different then other religion. The only different that they dont belive in god.

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Posted 2/15/08 , edited 4/18/08
im buddhist !
haha
blahh nothing else to say so
weeeee (:
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Posted 2/15/08 , edited 4/18/08
Im Buddist and im really happy to be one too
i joined a group call GDPT Nhat Tam which is Vietnamese Buddhist Association
and its awesome we go to temple every sunday and we learn about buddha past
its change me a lot since i learn something its really meaningful i just said BUDDHIST ROCKS!!!
i really really LOVE IT
Posted 2/15/08 , edited 4/18/08

MEMPHADON wrote:
the philosophy of buddhism is really nice, i just don't like the religious part. all the prayers, rituals, worshipping.....its just another religion now.

You might want to read about Theravada and the Thai Forest Tradition. There are almost no rituals in this tradition, and no prayer of any sort.

(Actually, what are the prayers that you're talking about? There isn't really supposed to be any prayer in Buddhism. I mean it isn't prohibited, though it isn't encouraged either. And you can't pray to the historical Buddha anyway because he's simply "gone.")
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Posted 2/15/08 , edited 4/18/08
Buddhism is very important in my family. I'm one, too. I think it's more of a philosophy than a religion, and I like their teachings and morals.
Posted 2/15/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:
First of all I am opposed to the religious forms of Buddhism a great deal. If we look at the horrors for instance of the period when Tibet was a theocracy, we can see it is no better than other religions. The government of that state regularly killed people and was typically quite awful to its citizens. The truth is that Buddhists do great evil but they are often seen as peaceful and harmless.

Being a Buddhist or anything else isn't sufficient to ensure that you won't do anything evil, but simply because some Buddhists do evil doesn't mean that they did evil because of Buddhism. In order to link a belief to certain behavior, you really need to show that the belief lead to that behavior. Correlation is not causation. Please find me some sort of scripture or essay or something that supports the idea of a theocracy in Buddhism, because I've never found one.



I do not think anyone can deny the inherent problem with dogmatic thinking in general. That it always leads to oppression.

Buddhism isn't particularly dogmatic. I quote from the Pali Canon:


3. The Kalamas who were inhabitants of Kesaputta sitting on one side said to the Blessed One: "There are some monks and brahmans, venerable sir, who visit Kesaputta. They expound and explain only their own doctrines; the doctrines of others they despise, revile, and pull to pieces. Some other monks and brahmans too, venerable sir, come to Kesaputta. They also expound and explain only their own doctrines; the doctrines of others they despise, revile, and pull to pieces. Venerable sir, there is doubt, there is uncertainty in us concerning them. Which of these reverend monks and brahmans spoke the truth and which falsehood?"

4. "It is proper for you, Kalamas, to doubt, to be uncertain; uncertainty has arisen in you about what is doubtful. Come, Kalamas. Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, 'The monk is our teacher.' Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are bad; these things are blamable; these things are censured by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to harm and ill,' abandon them.

Full text: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/soma/wheel008.html

In short, don't believe something just because "it is written", not even the passage I just quoted! So please tell me how this is dogmatic? This is the only "religion" that tells you not to believe it out-of-hand, but only when you have confirmed each thing for yourself.



Also think of the way they choose lamas. Going into a Buddhist orphanage and picking a boy who will never get the chance to live a normal life. Disgusting in my opinion. It is not right to force this boy to live that way. No child can ever really be expected to understand the complex nature of most religions. Its simply not fair.

This is specific to Tibetan Buddhism and I can't really address it as I'm not a follower of that sect.



Lets also takes about also how people are oppressed in the theocracy of Bhutan. The only non Muslim theocracy in the world. Non Buddhist are very persecuted there in an awful manner. They cant do anything about it though you know why? Because Bhutan closely controls who can get in form outside their "peaceful" Buddhist nation. It seems that Buddhist nations cause lots of problems and are in fact EVIL just like others.

So, Bhutan is Vajrayana Buddhist which is another sect that I don't follow, so I can't really answer this. Again though, correlation is not causation. You should try to find something in Vajrayana that seems to cause what you describe, otherwise you simply have correlation and not causation.



Other examples of nations with lots of Buddhist: Cambodia, Sri Lanka, Thailand (the one with child whores). Fuck that list speaks for itself.

So again, correlation is not causation. These nations also have a correlation with poverty. These are all Theravada Buddhist countries, and I can say that in Theravada there's nothing that would encourage prostitution of children that I've ever found. So again, I fail to see the causation that you're claiming. Buddhism does have the precept "I undertake the precept to abstain from sexual misconduct" but "sexual misconduct" is somewhat open-ended (it at least includes aldultery) and mostly defined by the society. So it sounds like maybe you're suggesting that there's something wrong with the Thai definition of "sexual misconduct."



Lets go over some of the tenets of Buddhism:
1.Life is suffering
Ok dude bullshit. You might think your stuff is making you happy but nope.Your life is suffering because thats what life is.

So, this is wrong. Life is dukkha which is a Pali word which means all stress from minor stress to horrible suffering. So this is better translated as "life is stressful" or really "there is stress."



2. Suffering comes from desire.
So you want all the nice things sex ect but it will cause more suffering.

Again, you have this wrong. This is really more like "stress is caused by craving." Again, it's not objects that cause stress but the craving for objects. For example, one person might own a nice sportscar but not be very attached to it. If it gets destroyed they might just think "oh well, big deal. It's just a car and wouldn't have lasted forever anyway." Another person may have the exact same car but get totally stressed out and go into a rage or something just because it got one tiny scratch on it. So again, it is the mental attitude (craving) towards things, not the things themselves, that causes stress/suffering.



3.Follow Buddhism and the 8 fold path and you will get real happiness.

Again, this is also stated incorrectly. It's really more like, follow certain practices and beliefs and you'll be progressively less stressed about things. In fact, you don't have to accept this on faith. You can give the practices a try and see if they reduce your level of stress. If they don't, then don't continue.

The only thing that can't really be observed until you get there is the complete cessation of stress (nibbana/nirvana), but honestly, who cares whether it exists or not? If you're moving in the direction of "less stress" then that by itself is beneficial enough. If there is a complete cessation of it then that's just an added bonus.



All bullshit. Rich people commit less crime, there is less war, and rich people are better off.

Yet again, your understanding is wrong. Buddhism doesn't condemn prosperity. If you're wealthy and craving for possessions, then giving away those possessions doesn't end your craving. Obviously it's good to not be in a state of deprivation.

Being "rich" is good to a certain point, but still your state of mind matters most beyond that. A rich person can be content with what they have, or be craving for even more beyond what they have.

Also, moral societies are supposed to be more prosperous, and taxation is condemned, though generosity is encouraged.



The thing is....I am not convinced that by following it the world will be improved or my life would be. Thus I dont think I will follow it. I guess you could say I dont find any "solaces" in it myself.

Well, you're not really supposed to just "be convinced." So I don't really blame you.
Posted 2/15/08 , edited 4/18/08
there are different types of pratice buddhism :
- one is call "Theravāda" with monk and it says that few people can reach the illumination (be buddha)
- the second is call "Mahayana" which say that more people can reach the illumination (be buddha)

It's really different, but Bouddha said that Sutra lotus is the most difficult and have a lot of meanings so this sutra is the most important in Bouddha teachings that a lot of buddhist forget or deny it. Buddha have given a lot of teachings for example to tell them what to do to live in peace and good.

But too much monk and/or religious follow rules and not the spirit.
They don't adapt Buddha teachings in our time society.
Like all religion and life changing, religion have to change his form and way of praticing religion but not his spirit
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Posted 2/15/08 , edited 4/18/08

shibole wrote:


MEMPHADON wrote:
the philosophy of buddhism is really nice, i just don't like the religious part. all the prayers, rituals, worshipping.....its just another religion now.

You might want to read about Theravada and the Thai Forest Tradition. There are almost no rituals in this tradition, and no prayer of any sort.

(Actually, what are the prayers that you're talking about? There isn't really supposed to be any prayer in Buddhism. I mean it isn't prohibited, though it isn't encouraged either. And you can't pray to the historical Buddha anyway because he's simply "gone.")

Prayer wheels


Statues honoring the deity


praying to a statue of the buddha



i can understand giving up your life and dedicating it to acheiving the same mental state the buddha attained, but not worshiping the buddha as a deity.
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Posted 2/15/08 , edited 4/18/08
I'm buddhist too (^.^) I like it because of the philosophy and my whole family is buddhist
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Posted 2/15/08 , edited 4/18/08
hmm.. I have a 2 questions

1) why is it life is viewed as sufferings?
because for me life is a challenge. yes, of course you can suffer but you can also be happy.
2) regarding karma.. I can't see the logic of it..

But of course fundamentally Buddhism is a good religion. I think all religions are good, none of them promote anything bad or whatever.

The thing is.. HOW GOOD IS GOOD?
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Posted 2/15/08 , edited 4/18/08
I became very interested in Buddhism after a Chinese shop-owner spoke to me about it and gave me some Buddhist books and CD's for free. I will always admire and practice some of it's philosophy, but I still struggle with the thought of it being completely pragmatic as a way of life or religion. I'm still open to different philosophies but I can't devote myself completely to just one way of life or philosophy.
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