Post Reply How exactly is the Servant Class meaningful to the Heroic Spirit?
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Posted 3/11/17
I am really overthinking this a lot.

I'm watching Unlimited Blade Works and something is bothering me about Berserker and the other Servant Class. I read that Berserker is the Heroic Spirit Hercules somewhere. I was just wondering, is there a reason why Hercules is Berserker? Could it be that something happen to him in his past that cause him to go crazy like he does? Does the Heroic Spirit's past and the Servant Class go hand in hand?

If I remember, Hercules went mad with rage when his children and wife died. He either killed them by accident or they were killed by Hera. Is that the reason why he became Berserker or something?

I know I am over thinking things but I can't help but to be curious.

What do you think?
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Posted 3/11/17 , edited 3/11/17

qualeshia3 wrote:
If I remember, Hercules went mad with rage when his children and wife died. He either killed them by accident or they were killed by Hera. Is that the reason why he became Berserker or something?

I believe that is the reason, yes. Hera inflicted bouts of insanity on Hercules because he was the illegitimate son of Zeus, so Berserker is a possible class for Hercules to take. Hercules could have also been summoned as an Archer I believe.

In Fate/Zero, it shown that an additional verse in the summoning spell, one that specifies the Servant is afflicted with insanity, is part of summoning Berserker (this is done by Matou Zouken).


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Posted 3/11/17

cyberfaust wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:
If I remember, Hercules went mad with rage when his children and wife died. He either killed them by accident or they were killed by Hera. Is that the reason why he became Berserker or something?

I believe that is the reason, yes. Hera inflicted bouts of insanity on Hercules because he was the illegitimate son of Zeus, so Berserker is a possible class for Hercules to take. Hercules could have also been summoned as an Archer I believe.

In Fate/Zero, it shown that an additional verse in the summoning spell, one that specifies the Servant is afflicted with insanity, is part of summoning Berserker (this is done by Matou Zouken).




Thanks for explaining. I was thinking so hard about it and trying to put pieces together. I thought I was being silly but it actually makes.
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Posted 3/11/17 , edited 3/11/17
This still doesn't explain the Japanese Swordsmen as the "Assassin" class. He does nothing of the sort. The fact that he is Japanese means he could have been some shinobi, but his role as the guard is important.




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Posted 3/11/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

This still doesn't explain the Japanese Swordsmen as the "Assassin" class. He does nothing of the sort. The fact that he is Japanese means he could have been some shinobi, but his role as the guard is important.






Makes sense.
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Posted 3/11/17 , edited 3/11/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

This still doesn't explain the Japanese Swordsmen as the "Assassin" class. He does nothing of the sort. The fact that he is Japanese means he could have been some shinobi, but his role as the guard is important.





I think the most important aspect of the Assassin class is being being a legendary slayer of humans with some kind of technique or stealth that would differentiate it as a class from, say Saber or Lancer. So if that's the case Kojiro would fit the class because of his swallow cut.
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Posted 3/11/17 , edited 3/11/17

cyberfaust wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

This still doesn't explain the Japanese Swordsmen as the "Assassin" class. He does nothing of the sort. The fact that he is Japanese means he could have been some shinobi, but his role as the guard is important.





I think the most important aspect of the Assassin class is being being a legendary slayer of humans rather than heroic spirits or magical beasts (making Assassin an anti-Master servant).



Yeah, exactly. He does nothing of the sort. He fights Saber and other Servants fairly, nor does he use sneak attacks or even make real concerted efforts to kill masters to his desire when they are presented at the temple. He is most definitely a Saber class, but as it was already established that Saber was Saber, and that there can only be "one" of each type, this would be too early for a plot twist.

I suppose I shouldn't complain about the irregularity, seeing as it was written in the rule. I looked at my original post, and my intent was to demonstrate that servants can be fitted for multiple classes, even those not at their best alignment, like Gilgamesh as an "archer".


There were also liberties taken with the legends and stories, specifically of Rider and Gilles.
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Posted 3/11/17
At lot of the legends set different characters with a wide range of traits and abilities. Class seems narrow those abilities to a specific set. In some ways it's a limiter for the most powerful Heroes. Each hero clearly has a class they are best suited for and it is in that class they are at their strongest but depending on their legend they can fit into several different ones

In Fate/Grand order we see several familiar servants but in different classes than we did before. For example Cu Chulainn who we are used to seeing as Lancer was there as Caster and Medusa was Lancer instead of Rider.

If Cu Chulainn had his full abilities, Fighting skills Plus Rune magic, that would make for one hell of a servant. Instead his Class limits him to one or the other.

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Posted 3/11/17 , edited 3/11/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Yeah, exactly. He does nothing of the sort. He fights Saber and other Servants fairly, nor does he use sneak attacks or even make real concerted efforts to kill masters to his desire when they are presented at the temple. He is most definitely a Saber class, but as it was already established that Saber was Saber, and that there can only be "one" of each type, this would be too early for a plot twist.


I don't know how the Fate series defines its classes, but the modern definition of 'assassin' is simply 'murderer.' Most definitions add on that assassins tend to kill prominent people, or kill due to religious, political, or monetary reasons. But I haven't seen any definitions that say an assassin has to be stealth, or can't be honorable and fight fairly.

I don't remember what Assassin's backstory actually was, but as long as he was someone who killed people a lot, he could potentially qualify as an assassin.
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Posted 3/11/17 , edited 3/11/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:
Yeah, exactly. He does nothing of the sort. He fights Saber and other Servants fairly, nor does he use sneak attacks or even make real concerted efforts to kill masters to his desire when they are presented at the temple. He is most definitely a Saber class, but as it was already established that Saber was Saber, and that there can only be "one" of each type, this would be too early for a plot twist.

Actually you make a great point. Caster, Archer, Lancer etc. are easy to understand classes that don't require a lot of explanation but what makes an Assassin is not very well defined. I basically gave my best guess what makes Kojiro qualify for this class in my previous post.

This is a mild visual novel/Heaven's Feel spoiler:




There were also liberties taken with the legends and stories, specifically of Rider and Gilles.

Are you talkin' bout the F/SN Rider or Fate/Zero Rider?


Greylurker wrote:
In Fate/Grand order we see several familiar servants but in different classes than we did before. For example Cu Chulainn who we are used to seeing as Lancer was there as Caster and Medusa was Lancer instead of Rider.

Medusa as Lancer is a surprise; her abilities would make her a much better fit as Caster than as Rider imo. Of course the Lancer class' poor luck stat does suit her...
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Posted 3/11/17

Lord_Wunder wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Yeah, exactly. He does nothing of the sort. He fights Saber and other Servants fairly, nor does he use sneak attacks or even make real concerted efforts to kill masters to his desire when they are presented at the temple. He is most definitely a Saber class, but as it was already established that Saber was Saber, and that there can only be "one" of each type, this would be too early for a plot twist.


I don't know how the Fate series defines its classes, but the modern definition of 'assassin' is simply 'murderer.' Most definitions add on that assassins tend to kill prominent people, or kill due to religious, political, or monetary reasons. But I haven't seen any definitions that say an assassin has to be stealth, or can't be honorable and fight fairly.

I don't remember what Assassin's backstory actually was, but as long as he was someone who killed people a lot, he could potentially qualify as an assassin.


In Fate, they're not quite as strong Sabers, Berserkers, etc, which makes them, alongside Casters, generally reserved to more covert methods of killing, the assassin part being that they typically go after Masters instead of Servants. Sasaki is an outlier, but this is of course explained in the story. Heck, the Assassin thing may have been thrown in there to confuse players on the first routes. Sasaki is admitted to be an even better swordsman than Saber by Saber herself, and honorable even going so far as to let Saber know that he estimated the length of her sword, as well as saved her and Shirou at one point during UBW.

Anyhoo, I was just being dumb. I watched Gate Season 2 and I hated it.
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Posted 3/11/17

cyberfaust wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:
Yeah, exactly. He does nothing of the sort. He fights Saber and other Servants fairly, nor does he use sneak attacks or even make real concerted efforts to kill masters to his desire when they are presented at the temple. He is most definitely a Saber class, but as it was already established that Saber was Saber, and that there can only be "one" of each type, this would be too early for a plot twist.

Actually you make a great point. Caster, Archer, Lancer etc. are easy to understand classes that don't require a lot of explanation but what makes an Assassin is not very well defined. I basically gave my best guess what makes Kojiro qualify for this class in my previous post.

This is a mild visual novel/Heaven's Feel spoiler:




There were also liberties taken with the legends and stories, specifically of Rider and Gilles.

Are you talkin' bout the F/SN Rider or Fate/Zero Rider?


Greylurker wrote:
In Fate/Grand order we see several familiar servants but in different classes than we did before. For example Cu Chulainn who we are used to seeing as Lancer was there as Caster and Medusa was Lancer instead of Rider.

Medusa as Lancer is a surprise; her abilities would make her a much better fit as Caster than as Rider imo. Of course the Lancer class' poor luck stat does suit her...


Yes, I was.

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Posted 3/12/17
Thanks for the comments, guys.
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