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Post Reply Westerners may also have low tolerance to moe fandom in general
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Posted 3/14/17 , edited 3/14/17
Edit: Okay people this is a discussion not a hatefest. If you plan to just hate and not make any cogent points then kindly move on.


I was going to mention this in Ryulightorb's thread but I think anything I try to discuss will get drowned out by all the noise so I'm going to start over by talking specifically about Western attitudes towards moe.

If you're not familiar with the term, here's a TV Tropes link:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Moe


Moe characters are, generally speaking, cute. Moe characters are implicitly youthful, congregating to high school age and below. Adult female characters who qualify are almost always in their low twenties. Any characters older than that have this fact unmentioned, or the character's appearance is altered as little as possible regardless of the actual time that has passed. Moe characters often take many characteristics, tropes and forms of appearance from the Bishoujo genre.


Those were some moe traits, but the definition of moe itself is extremely vague:


Comiket organiser Ichikawa Koichi has described Lum Invader of Urusei Yatsura as being both the source of moe and the first tsundere. The character of Clarisse from Hayao Miyazaki's The Castle of Cagliostro (1979) has also been cited as a potential ancestral example. According to Hiroki Azuma, as Rei Ayanami became a more prominent character among fans, she "changed the rules" governing what people regarded as moe-inspiring. The industry has since created many characters which share her traits of pale skin, blue hair and a "quiet personality".


When I first heard of the term "moe", it after the year 2000 when Love Hina was making the rounds on the fansub circuits:

Shinobu from Love Hina (Y2K)


At the time I didn't really understand what it was about at all. It seemed to me people were talking about sister complex, but this turned out to be not the case.

Technically, just about any bishoujo that contain any aspect of vulnerability at all (or even those that DON'T) could be considered moe:

Madoka from Kimagure Orange Road (circa 1987). I had a crush on her, and she was supposedly a high school girl. Was that inappropriate for a college student? I'd bet anything that if I say NOW that I have a crush on Madoka NOW, I would be in big trouble...


Nico from Love Live (2013) which of course is the most moe character ever. Is saying "Nico best girl" going to get me in trouble from non-LLers also? It still might, because she's a high school senior. In fact I already had some name calling directed at me because people have little to no idea what moe is, and even if they do they still hate moe fandom


This is my feeling on Western tolerance levels when it comes to moe, even if in a purely non-sexual context:

- If the character is underaged, it's going to bother at least some people. What is underaged generally goes with what people consider a real person as underaged

1. Fans usually have a higher tolerance than the general population, but not always

2. The tolerance goes up the less possible erotic interpretations there are for any materal

3. (With western fans,) There's also a general "school system" when it comes to moe/bishoujo:

-High school: Generally okay, borderline if there are connotations
-Middle school: Not okay if there are connotations
-Below middle school: Seriously not okay if it's anything more than "aw cute" (I do NOT think of Kanna from Miss Kobayashi's Dragon as anything but plain cute. I wouldn't call cops on people looking up any possible BadKannaPix but I myself would feel quite ill inside and politely ask them to seek help)

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Posted 3/14/17 , edited 3/14/17
Low? Try nearly no tolerance.
Posted 3/14/17 , edited 3/14/17
Feels like the west likes the nitty gritty, violent style anime over Moe.

I personally love moe characters.
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Posted 3/14/17

gornotck wrote:

Low? Try nearly no tolerance.


K-On is a quintessential moe series, according to TV Tropes...


K-On!
The series description can be summed up thusly: Four moe-blobs form a rock band.
K-On! is the show most people think of when "moe" is mentioned and it is probably the Trope Codifier.
The 4th episode may have hit a new peak in moe with Maid Mio.
Moe Moe Kyun~!
And just when you think it can't be topped, Azu-nyan arrives on stage.
Ejanss 
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Posted 3/14/17 , edited 3/14/17
We don't NEED it as much as Japanese fans do.
We're a little more open in our relationships, and aren't terrified of the opposite sex, and less need to objectify tropes or create idealized unthreatening fantasies to comfort ourselves.

And when we start to realize who does and why, it makes us feel even squickier.
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Posted 3/14/17 , edited 3/14/17

Roboteki wrote:

Feels like the west likes the nitty gritty, violent style anime over Moe.

I personally love moe characters.


It really depends on which fans you ask.

On TV Tropes there's a huge list of moe which pretty much covers what every anime fan on Earth have at least seen quite a few of:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Moe/AnimeAndManga


Ejanss wrote:

We don't NEED it as much as Japanese fans do.
We're a little more open in our relationships, and aren't terrified of the opposite sex, and less need to objectify tropes or create idealized unthreatening fantasies to comfort ourselves.

And when we start to realize who does and why, it makes us feel even squickier.


People who don't need certain stuff like it never the less. (e.g. potato chips...)

There are plenty of married / unmarried couples in the "moe community"

I only went to Japan with my wife basically because she was so impressed by my Love Live figurines that she wanted to "see where those dolls came from" (She was a little bit shocked by Akihabara, but that was another story......)
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Posted 3/14/17
Abomination.
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Posted 3/14/17 , edited 3/14/17

descloud wrote:

Abomination.


Would you believe even Berserk had moe?

See TV Tropes
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Posted 3/14/17

nanikore2 wrote:


descloud wrote:

Abomination.


Would you believe even Berserk had moe?

See TV Tropes


It's an abomination and must be destroyed.
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Posted 3/14/17 , edited 3/14/17

descloud wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


descloud wrote:

Abomination.


Would you believe even Berserk had moe?

See TV Tropes


It's an abomination and must be destroyed.


Seriously? You don't like Berserk?! Have you seen it??

(edit: I'm talking about the original, haven't watched the new one)
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Posted 3/14/17

nanikore2 wrote:


descloud wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


descloud wrote:

Abomination.


Would you believe even Berserk had moe?

See TV Tropes


It's an abomination and must be destroyed.


Seriously? You don't like Berserk?! Have you seen it??

(edit: I'm talking about the original, haven't watched the new one)


It must be sent into the abyss. Never to be see the light of day again. Forever, in darkness, like my many childhood drawings.
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Posted 3/14/17
K-On may be considered "moe", but it dealt more importantly with how practice and proper maintenance are essential to successful endeavors. Blackmail doesn't hurt either.
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Posted 3/14/17 , edited 3/14/17

descloud wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:



Seriously? You don't like Berserk?! Have you seen it??

(edit: I'm talking about the original, haven't watched the new one)


It must be sent into the abyss. Never to be see the light of day again. Forever, in darkness, like my many childhood drawings.


Give me a list of which series you like......... I'll show you just exactly how much moe is in them


gornotck wrote:

K-On may be considered "moe", but it dealt more importantly with how practice and proper maintenance are essential to successful endeavors. Blackmail doesn't hurt either.


...Could be said of any series with moe.

Look up the sections of moe on TV Tropes that goes into series such as Attack On Titan and Berserk
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Posted 3/14/17

nanikore2 wrote:


descloud wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:



Seriously? You don't like Berserk?! Have you seen it??

(edit: I'm talking about the original, haven't watched the new one)


It must be sent into the abyss. Never to be see the light of day again. Forever, in darkness, like my many childhood drawings.


Give me a list of which series you like......... I'll show you just exactly how much moe is in them


No.
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Posted 3/14/17
I think the key thing here is that "westerners" do not get the same things out of so-called moe anime as people obsessed with moe do. Anything can have "moe", but it will not resonate or even mean anything to them.
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