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Post Reply Pride - Not all are treated equal
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Posted 3/21/17 , edited 3/21/17
You're ignoring history and its connotations for the direct word by word definition, as in White Pride is taking pride in being white and black pride is taking pride in being black.

No, they have very different histories which cannot be ignored. It is not so much that Wikipedia is dictating that the races are different but the interpretation of what each demographic movement usually means.

If you want a better argument, I honestly believe racial pride is sort of dumb. Race and sexuality are just how you are born, they are genetic randomness at work, not accomplishments. Taking pride for others accomplishments just because you share the same "racial" identity is dumb, delusional, and often done by people who want to feel great without doing anything worthwhile, such as certain BLM racists, or white supremacy for a great deal of people. I think Civil Rights and Gay Right are more apt if anything else, whereas Whites cannot be truthfully said to have fought for their rights as a "race" in much of western civilization, because most of them did not need to. More Eastern countries might differ in recent history for its treatment of whites, Christians, etc. Reportedly, they are being killed by ISIS.
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Posted 3/21/17

redokami wrote:

lets see im german irish English and Viking, I don't think Norwegian Viking tho

if I say im proud to be german ill be called a Nazi so...


im proud to be a barbarian m blonde hair blue eyes and all


If you want to take pride in it, go for it. Who cares if you make someone Furhrerious?
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Posted 3/21/17
Oh, so being gay is a race now.

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Posted 3/21/17 , edited 3/21/17

Rujikin wrote:

Isn't it odd how some people can take pride in their culture and heritage while others are demonized and chastised. Is this what tolerance and diversity should be?


Perhaps you are being disingenuous, but regardless, it is an interesting question in terms of how language works and how connotations develop.

As PeripheralVisionary points out it's not as simple as comparing terms that seem equivalent, it also has to do with how the terms came into use. The very Wikipedia article you quote references some of that background which accounts for the different connotations:


Philosopher David Ingram argues that "affirming 'black pride' is not equivalent to affirming 'white pride,' since the former—unlike the latter—is a defensive strategy aimed at rectifying a negative stereotype". By contrast, then, "affirmations of white pride—however thinly cloaked as affirmations of ethnic pride—serve to mask and perpetuate white privilege".[11] In the same vein, Professor of Education at University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign, Cris Mayo, characterizes white pride as "a politically distasteful goal, given that whiteness is not a personal or community identity, but has been a strategy to maintain inequities of privilege and power."[12]


It's that effect -- maintaining inequities and privilege and power -- especially when perceived as intentionally sought, that is key to the negative connotation of this term.


rawratl wrote:
Dont count on it, they'll just ban me for calling him an idiot lol

This is true.


rawratl wrote:

I was actually more offended that you decided to include "LGBT" as a race....You can have your pride.


I've edited the title to emphasize the "pride" aspect, since as you correctly point out, LGBT Pride was included as an example, and that suggests the OPs concern is not just about the invocation of "pride" related to race.

All, let's keep this discussion respectful. You may find some opinions expressed to be distasteful or even repugnant but that does not justify exchanging insults. In order to try to achieve better communication and understanding about the issues being raised and viewpoints being expressed it's inevitable that people on all sides will have to hear things they find unpleasant. But it should be possible to say such things in a way that doesn't insult or attack, and to hear such things without insulting or attacking in response.
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Posted 3/21/17

zangeif123 wrote:

Oh, so being gay is a race now.



Maybe to transracial people...
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Posted 3/21/17
Lets face it being white means you've lost, any other race could mock our white skin and get away with it, if a white man reported racism he'd get laughed at the whole time. It's also like male victims of rape, you just don't hear about it enough, a woman gets raped and the world gets mad, same applies to household violence, man beats woman everyone cares, woman beats up the man he'll get bullied for it.

Don't mistake me though, all racism, sexism and domestic violence is bad, im just saying though that the cold hard truth is people only care about the one spectrum, not all spectrums
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Posted 3/21/17 , edited 3/21/17
They're all silly to me--and justifying the concept of 'white pride' through it doesn't just come off as just silly, but also passive aggressive and malicious.

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Posted 3/21/17

jaragnaros wrote:

Lets face it being white means you've lost, any other race could mock our white skin and get away with it, if a white man reported racism he'd get laughed at the whole time. It's also like male victims of rape, you just don't hear about it enough, a woman gets raped and the world gets mad, same applies to household violence, man beats woman everyone cares, woman beats up the man he'll get bullied for it.

Don't mistake me though, all racism, sexism and domestic violence is bad, im just saying though that the cold hard truth is people only care about the one spectrum, not all spectrums


Yeah its sick. Racism is discriminating based on ones race and racism against whites is normalized. Heck there are many people who believe you cannot be racist towards whites only towards minorities.







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Posted 3/21/17
I find it funny those who complain "whites" cannot show pride in their heritage. Are usually the same people who have no issue whatsoever labeling other groups of people "minorities". Which comes off as a derogatory term, and is said as if they didn't make up a large population in the country they share. Much less even the military that protects that country.

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Posted 3/21/17

Rujikin wrote:

Yeah its sick. Racism is discriminating based on ones race and racism against whites is normalized. Heck there are many people who believe you cannot be racist towards whites only towards minorities.


And there are many white people who discriminate others based on their race. Know what all those people discriminating based on race have in common? They're all assholes.

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Posted 3/21/17
How about Pride in yourself, your neighbors, your friends, your family (even the odd ones)?
Those are important things to be prideful of.
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Posted 3/21/17 , edited 3/21/17

Rujikin wrote:


jaragnaros wrote:

Lets face it being white means you've lost, any other race could mock our white skin and get away with it, if a white man reported racism he'd get laughed at the whole time. It's also like male victims of rape, you just don't hear about it enough, a woman gets raped and the world gets mad, same applies to household violence, man beats woman everyone cares, woman beats up the man he'll get bullied for it.

Don't mistake me though, all racism, sexism and domestic violence is bad, im just saying though that the cold hard truth is people only care about the one spectrum, not all spectrums


Yeah its sick. Racism is discriminating based on ones race and racism against whites is normalized. Heck there are many people who believe you cannot be racist towards whites only towards minorities.












descloud wrote:

I find it funny those who complain "whites" cannot show pride in their heritage. Are usually the same people who have no issue whatsoever labeling other groups of people "minorities". Which comes off as a derogatory term, and is said as if they didn't make up a large population in the country they share. Much less even the military that protects that country.



They seem to be reference to different movements in general, which unfortunately, is the byproduct of how these slogans were used, and for what purpose. They are not simply a case of a German taking pride in their beer or an Asian taking pride in their monorails, but racial movements and slogans (Which the wikipedia article about white pride is about, the movement). A generalization of sorts. Marcus Garvey is a far cry from Richard Spencer after all. To ignore these generalization is to ignore history.

I could very well say "We Should Make America Great Again", and I could genuinely not be a Trump Supporter, but that would be fair grounds to assume that I am a Trump Supporter because of recent history, because most people who do say this now are Trump supporters. You're looking at words, Wikipedia is looking at the phrase.

Ignoring history for semantics does not work. It ignores the semantic of the phrase itself.

The concept of having pride in a heritage for Caucasians is not inclusive of the term "White Pride" or its movement. Pride movements often mobilized because of perceived discrimination. Hence why LGBT Pride and Black Pride are more thrown around than Asian Pride and White Pride.
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Posted 3/21/17

jaragnaros wrote:

Lets face it being white means you've lost, any other race could mock our white skin and get away with it, if a white man reported racism he'd get laughed at the whole time. It's also like male victims of rape, you just don't hear about it enough, a woman gets raped and the world gets mad, same applies to household violence, man beats woman everyone cares, woman beats up the man he'll get bullied for it.

Don't mistake me though, all racism, sexism and domestic violence is bad, im just saying though that the cold hard truth is people only care about the one spectrum, not all spectrums


Maybe you should shake off the pessimism and open your eyes a little. Being white absolutely does not mean you've lost and girls beating up boys are only made fun of and not taken seriously by sexists or children. Or sexist children.
Posted 3/21/17 , edited 3/22/17

Rujikin wrote:

Isn't it odd how some people can take pride in their culture and heritage while others are demonized and chastised? Is this what tolerance and diversity should be?


While it would be pretty easy to dismiss the "gay pride" aspect of the image you've used as being a bit off the topic, I actually think it's the opposite. So let's look at your core question:

Isn't it odd...

No, it's not really odd. "Whites" (Caucasians) do not necessarily have culture or heritage to call its own. If you look at our ancestry, you'll see that our race has spread all across the globe throughout history (Caucasians) - which, in their own right, have diversified cultures. Essentially, there isn't a "unified" culture or heritage to celebrate in contrast to that of the others you've listed (black/Asian/gay). Let's break it down a little bit:

Each of the two races you focused on was about these races in America, more so than other locations.. each of them have created their own culture within the United States throughout their time. When compared to that of Caucasians (or "whites"), they have more of a historical culture in the US, in a manner of speaking. Our "forefathers" were Caucasians, correct?

One could easily state that any of our political holidays that focus on the country's independence (July 4th), our first president (Washington's Birthday/President's Day), and days that focus on our veterans who kept freedom alive in our country (Memorial Day, Veteran's Day) are all celebration of "Caucasian Pride".

Linguistically speaking, "white pride" has been mostly about white supremacy - versus that of a simple celebration of one's "heritage" or "culture". So let's follow up with your last question ---

"Is this what tolerance and diversity should be?

This was a tongue-in-cheek question, of course. But yes, it is what tolerance and diversity should be. Caucasians/whites have a significant amount of holidays and celebrations that focus on our culture (from St. Patrick's Day to the aforementioned holidays).

When minorities are proud of their race it isn't presented in a way that they're superior to other races, just that they're indicating that they're not inferior either - that they're on equal footing with the majority. Society, in the United States, doesn't have a prevalent, historical perception of Caucasians as being inferior to other races. There's absolutely no need for a majority to state that they're "not inferior" to others because it's a socially accepted situation as they're in the majority.

Thinking about it in the "why is one demonized when the others aren't" is the willful ignorance of the overall perception of what "racial pride" is there for. It's okay to be prideful of your race as a Caucasian. But the overall perception is that it's the majority (unoppressed) hasn't any need to remind people that they're equal to the minorities - it's a given undertone of society.
Posted 3/21/17 , edited 3/22/17
You have degenerate skinheads and subversive communists in our universities and government to thank for that.
See

"Whites" (Caucasians) do not necessarily have culture or heritage to call its own

A result of the latter.

Posted 3/21/17 , edited 3/21/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:
You have degenerate skinheads and subversive communists in our universities and government to thank for that.


Like it or not, that's the reality. Caucasian "heritage/culture" is diversified into our plethora of cultures by geographical locations. In the United States, we celebrate our own culture by celebrating the country that "we" founded. Just like most countries have various celebrations of their culture and heritage as a whole.
Posted 3/21/17
After reading this thread i'm speechless.. I can't undo what I've
read here.
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