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Terror in Europe and what's (not) been done about it
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Posted 3/24/17 , edited 3/24/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


RebRebel wrote:

When the problem is a bloke called Adrian who is born in and lives in your country for 52 years before he decides to rent a car and mow people down all the immigration rules in the world won't prevent it.\.


His name was Khalid Masood and he was known to MI5 for years for being an Islamic extremist
And you're wrong, it can be dealt with before attacks happen
Even Mama Merkel knows that
http://kucb.org/post/first-germany-deports-native-born-terrorism-suspects


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39373766

His name was Adrian until he decided to change it and you're wrong, the men from Germany didn't have citizenship which is why they could be deported, this guy was a British citizen, were exactly do you propose we deport him to?

As far as security services being aware of him, unless they come out and say "we were aware of an impending attack by this man" it really doesn't tell us anything. Sure, it's important for them to investigate whether it was a fuck up that was preventable or not but I suspect that a bunch of people sat around discussing shit on an anime site don't have the level of information or expertise required to do anything more than Monday morning quarterback.
Posted 3/24/17 , edited 3/24/17

RebRebel wrote:


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39373766

His name was Adrian until he decided to change it and you're wrong, the men from Germany didn't have citizenship which is why they could be deported, this guy was a British citizen, were exactly do you propose we deport him to?

As far as security services being aware of him, unless they come out and say "we were aware of an impending attack by this man" it really doesn't tell us anything. Sure, it's important for them to investigate whether it was a fuck up that was preventable or not but I suspect that a bunch of people sat around discussing shit on an anime site don't have the level of information or expertise required to do anything more than Monday morning quarterback.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/khalid-masood-london-terror-attack-family-man-turn-terrorist-teacher-father-mi5-a7647121.html


He is understood to have been jailed on at least two occasions, with reports on Thursday night suggesting he may have been radicalised behind bars.

One of those spells in prison is reported to have resulted from an incident when Masood stabbed a 22-year-old in the face in Eastbourne in 2003.

Theresa May herself made clear in the House of Commons – sitting again today in defiant refusal to be cowed by Masood’s killing – that his identity was known to the police and MI5.

“What I can confirm is that the man was British-born and that – some years ago – he was once investigated in relation to concerns about violent extremism. He was a peripheral figure.”



He should have been stripped of his citizenship and deported to where his parents came from, like the extremists in Germany, the moment MI5 caught a whiff of his radicalization.


Some neighbourhoods in the places where Masood is suspected to have lived – Luton and east London as well as Birmingham – have also acquired unenviable reputations for housing a small, but occasionally murderous Islamist extremist minority.



It is believed he regularly attended a mosque in Birmingham and was a Muslim convert. Security sources, however, refused to discuss details or the role the mosque may or may not have played in his radicalisation.

That, they said, was part of ongoing investigations.
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Posted 3/24/17 , edited 3/24/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:
He should have been stripped of his citizenship and deported to where his parents came from, like the extremists in Germany, the moment MI5 caught a whiff of his radicalization.


It sounds like you're proposing governments punish thought crime. And if they can strip him of citizenship, what's to stop our governments from stripping any of us of citizenship and deporting us back to Africa, where all of us come from?
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Posted 3/24/17 , edited 3/24/17

mittemeyer wrote:


Amyas_Leigh wrote:
He should have been stripped of his citizenship and deported to where his parents came from, like the extremists in Germany, the moment MI5 caught a whiff of his radicalization.


It sounds like you're proposing governments punish thought crime. And if they can strip him of citizenship, what's to stop him from stripping any of us of citizenship and deporting us back to Africa, where all of us come from?


Of course deportation for thinking is okay but god help you if you enforce laws against watching television illegally. If a country does that its a police state.

Seriously though, even if Boxer only meant to say that actions should have been taken if MI5 new about him conspiring to commit a criminal action (which I doubt he did) that would still leave an incredible lack of understanding of deportation and citizenship.
Posted 3/24/17 , edited 3/24/17

mittemeyer wrote:

It sounds like you're proposing governments punish thought crime. And if they can strip him of citizenship, what's to stop our governments from stripping any of us of citizenship and deporting us back to Africa, where all of us come from?


I thought the 'Out of Africa' theory was debunked.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-the-out-of-africa-theory-out/
>An examination of over 5,000 teeth from early human ancestors shows that many of the first Europeans probably came from Asia
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Posted 3/24/17 , edited 3/24/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:
I thought the 'Out of Africa' theory was debunked.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-the-out-of-africa-theory-out/
>An examination of over 5,000 teeth from early human ancestors shows that many of the first Europeans probably came from Asia


Out of Africa is not the only theory of human evolution where humans are ultimately descended from Africa. Out of Africa is one theory that concerns the timing and spread of human populations deriving from a human population which left Africa relatively late in the evolution of humans. If you knew anything about human evolution, you would have noticed that the theory you linked to concerns the ancestry of Europeans. It does not contest whether human beings ultimately are derived from Africa. This is what happens when you try to Google your way out of a problem.

If you haven't already, it's not too late to go to school, get married, and make something of yourself. Just saying. Sorry if this advice is unwelcome.
Posted 3/24/17 , edited 3/24/17

mittemeyer wrote:



Out of Africa is not the only theory of human evolution where humans are ultimately descended from Africa. Out of Africa is one theory that concerns the timing and spread of human populations deriving from a human population which left Africa relatively late in the evolution of humans. If you knew anything about human evolution, you would have noticed that the theory you linked to concerns the ancestry of Europeans. It does not contest whether human beings ultimately are derived from Africa. This is what happens when you try to Google your way out of a problem.

If you haven't already, it's not too late to go to school, get married, and make something of yourself. Just saying. Sorry if this advice is unwelcome.


This is getting really off topic, but if all modern humans evolved from one small group in Africa, why is it that many Europeans and Asians don't have any African DNA?


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Posted 3/24/17 , edited 3/24/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:
This is getting really off topic, but if all modern humans evolved from one small group in Africa, why is it that many Europeans and Asians don't have any African DNA?


I'm not saying that I support 'Out of Africa'; I'm not well-read enough on the current state of research. But I do have an undergraduate degree in microbiology, and I can tell you that Europeans and Asians do share African DNA. At the very least, they would share mitochondrial DNA, which changes very little from generation to generation, since it never gets spliced during cellular reproduction.

If you can, pick an engineering degree, since the job opportunities and the pay is the best.
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Posted 3/24/17 , edited 3/24/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


mittemeyer wrote:



Out of Africa is not the only theory of human evolution where humans are ultimately descended from Africa. Out of Africa is one theory that concerns the timing and spread of human populations deriving from a human population which left Africa relatively late in the evolution of humans. If you knew anything about human evolution, you would have noticed that the theory you linked to concerns the ancestry of Europeans. It does not contest whether human beings ultimately are derived from Africa. This is what happens when you try to Google your way out of a problem.

If you haven't already, it's not too late to go to school, get married, and make something of yourself. Just saying. Sorry if this advice is unwelcome.


This is getting really off topic, but if all modern humans evolved from one small group in Africa, why is it that many Europeans and Asians don't have any African DNA?




ok ok from what I think remember from anthropology, humans originated from Africa. But not all of us are 100% human? Some people are descendants from other species of primates like Neanderthals!

So from what I remember, homo sapiens ended up either killing off other similar species or interbreeding with them.


To answer your question:

some people just have more Neanderthal DNA than others, i guess



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Posted 3/24/17 , edited 3/24/17



Oh absolutely. Neither Sandy nor myself want Trump style bans to be an accepted thing. Hell, judging by the fact that the OP talks about attacks from non-immigrants it probably isn't helping.


I agree generalizing people based on physical traits or beliefs or anything really other than their own character is wrong people should only be seen on their merit and not any group that they associate with or where they happen to be from. All banning people depending on where they are from will do is exacerbate the situation as it basically gives in to fear and that's the thing about it if you let attacks continue and seemingly do nothing about them then the public will become the problem people will only take so much before they start exacting what they see as justice themselves but an approach that's too heavy handed will cause more problems than it will solve. Brexit for most people I know was about the current state of the EU and not about attacks I don't know anyone who had that as their main reason.
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Posted 3/24/17 , edited 3/24/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


RebRebel wrote:

When the problem is a bloke called Adrian who is born in and lives in your country for 52 years before he decides to rent a car and mow people down all the immigration rules in the world won't prevent it.\.


His name was Khalid Masood and he was known to MI5 for years for being an Islamic extremist
And you're wrong, it can be dealt with before attacks happen
Even Mama Merkel knows that
http://kucb.org/post/first-germany-deports-native-born-terrorism-suspects


altaidox wrote:

Considering the US Army just bombed Syria killing 33 innocent children

Children like this?

Or 'children' like these 'syrian refugees' ?


That's it, bud - post a photo of like a few kids out on an entire country. That sure justifies your point.
Here let me hit back:



Or are we forgetting the kid who drowned? You know, the dead one most of us Westerners pretended to care about for a solid three days before going back to not giving one single crap and assuming that all refugees are out to get our jobs?

One picture does not represent an entire country/set of people, and I know you must be at least educated enough to know that.

And even so, you can't just arrest someone on suspicion of stabbing a cop/running people down - otherwise the majority of London would have been arrested. Or are you under the speculation that London is this grand paradise of "oh pip pip cheerio"s and intense debates about Twinings tea? Are you aware that American kids have gunned down schools and churches (resulting in far more deaths than Terrorists, might I add) and not had it branded as terrorism? Are you aware that there are people in Britain killing people and painting swastikas onto religious buildings here and in Europe because fuck it, white Europeans aren't capable of terrorism, I guess.

So much for civilised debates.
Posted 3/24/17 , edited 5/23/17

altaidox wrote:



Or are we forgetting the kid who drowned?


.


Literally the son of an ISIS linked human trafficker that was being paid thousands to smuggle people from Turkey into the EU.
Funny how that got the front page of western media outlets for weeks, just like the 'dust boy' photo. Which ended up being exposed as ISIS propaganda.


Edit 5/23/2017

Yesterday at an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester a man detonated a homemade grenade and killed some 20 people and injured 50 more.
Like the Westminster attack and so many other incidents, he and his friends were known to both police and security services for extremist activity.

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/05/who_is_salman_abedi_suspect_na.html



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Posted 5/23/17 , edited 5/23/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


SandyNewt wrote:



Maybe it's best to prevent some people from being able to legally obtain ways to kill others easily be it gun, car or knife depending on the severity of the danger they seem willing to go to. Heavy machinery is a very dangerous thing that's why you have various different licenses guns should be handled the same along with knives and swords. It's not so much to take freedom away from them as it is to compromise part of their freedom to protect others around them sure they'll use illegal means before that argument arises and there is no real way to combat that effectively but there is no need to make it easy for people who have shown the consideration to kill people particularly on mass to carry it out if you have evidence to show they intend to do these things why shouldn't some of the rights be removed from them and some rights doesn't mean torturing them is acceptable innocents should be protected but it can't turn in to a witch hunt either sure it will be very hard to do but careful steps should be taken not to make normal peoples lives hard and condemn average people who aren't actually contemplating slaughtering people. I'm not saying I have the answers I just couldn't not say anything after you said " If you're going to do away with the Bill of Rights, you may as well just have them locked up and water boarded in an off shore prison." because to me that's quite a jump to make in my opinion... sorry if I caused offence but it's better regretting the things you said than the things you never in my opinion leading to this lengthy message.


I don't believe the driver of the Nice, France truck had a license to drive it, or a license for the gun he had, though I don't think it caused any deaths. Nor did the Christmas Market attacker, who used a small caliber pistol and a knife to hijack the truck he used in his attack.
The only way to keep someone from stealing a truck or other vehicle, or to keep them from making/buying a gun is to have them locked up, dead or not in your country in the first place.



Might not have had a license but him not having access to one makes the whole initial try harder as it involves stealing or using The black market.

Sure a criminal will still get what they want but making it harder for them is good
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Posted 5/23/17 , edited 5/23/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


RebRebel wrote:

When the problem is a bloke called Adrian who is born in and lives in your country for 52 years before he decides to rent a car and mow people down all the immigration rules in the world won't prevent it.\.


His name was Khalid Masood and he was known to MI5 for years for being an Islamic extremist
And you're wrong, it can be dealt with before attacks happen
Even Mama Merkel knows that
http://kucb.org/post/first-germany-deports-native-born-terrorism-suspects


altaidox wrote:

Considering the US Army just bombed Syria killing 33 innocent children

Children like this?

Or 'children' like these 'syrian refugees' ?


No.

But speaking of ISIS propaganda, Americans reacting to this by thinking up clever reasons for why it's totally okay, sure make their job easier.
All they have to do is focus on this, and ignore or dismiss moderates, they hardly need to make up new material. After all you didn't.
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Posted 5/23/17 , edited 5/24/17

octorockandroll wrote:

Oh absolutely. Neither Sandy nor myself want Trump style bans to be an accepted thing. Hell, judging by the fact that the OP talks about attacks from non-immigrants it probably isn't helping.


jeez mate you still here apologizing to muslims for killing innocent Europeans and feeling bad about poor immigrants???
if you hate your own people so bad just go over to africa or the middle east and see how tolerant and peace loving all these poor immigrants you love so much really are.
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