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Post Reply Why JonTron's Followers Will Hurt HIm More
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Posted 4/2/17 , edited 4/3/17
In case anyone's wondering what I'm talking about, just take a look at this video--> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RQA9GZprqM&t=1s

JonTron's debate with Destiny ends in racism. I know this took place last month on the 13th, and people are still talking about the racist things he said. I always found stuff like this interesting. I've been on the internet for a long time, and I've watched people debate against one another, I've seen other internet celebrities slip up, and I've seen their fans flock to help them. To fight the battles the internet celebrity refuse to battle themselves, and it always goes the same way.

Racism is different though. That's hatred, and regardless of a 'fans' best intention, I've learned that they tend to hurt a situation, more than help it. Unfortunately, this time is no different.

Here are the ways that people try to help an internet celebrity.

1. They deny any wrongdoing.

People who deny that someone was racist are pretty annoying. They act like the bile coming out of their heroes mouths wasn't really racist, and that someone was being misinterpreted. It's really hard to back this up, especially in JonTron's case. I mean if he slipped up and used the 'N' word, you could write that off. It was wrong, but it was the slip of the tongue.

In JonTron's case, he didn't just spout some racist term, he said, in a complete sentence, beliefs! He believes the things he said, because he came to those conclusions over time.

And the other type of fan?

2. Racists!

These are the fans who are really going to hurt JonTron. You wouldn't believe how many comments I've seen, where people completely agree with JonTron's racism, and even gets pretty nasty themselves. Look At the Debate above, and scroll through the comments. It's rife with people who are as equally, or even more disgusting, than JonTron himself.



JonTron might not vanish, but even he's feeling the sting of his comments, despite his fans best attempt to make all of this go away. Right now on his twitter account, he's talking about 'Dave Chappelle', a rich black guy, who according to JonTron himself, is more likely to commit a crime than a poor white guy. Like myself.

I even made a post about JonTron losing a voice acting gig on the indie game 'Yooka-Laylee', and if you look through the comments in that post, you'll see people defend JonTron by denying he did anything wrong. What I found funny about this situation though, is the fact that people think 'Yooka-Laylee' will fail now. It's hilarious considering that internet celebrities themselves admitted that they don't effect the sales of video games, so I'd like to see how excluding a bigoted racist like JonTron, would somehow sink this game.

The funny thing about this entire situation, is that it's happened before, and no matter what I say here, it'll keep happening. Internet Celebrities will shoot off their mouths, and say stupid crap, fans will defend them anyway possible, and the internet celebrity will slink off, never to be heard from again.

This actually reminds me of GamerGate! You know, the movement that was about 'Gaming Journalism', but that's only if you ignore the sexist/racist bullshit that the organization was really about. Sure there were members of GamerGate who believed it was about 'Gaming Journalism', and they desperately tried to keep everyone else on track, but that didn't work did it? There were internet celebrities who came out, and said 'GamerGate is about Gaming Journalism, but now let me tell you why Anita Sarkeesian, Zoe Quinn, and feminism are bad!'

So why am I bringing up GamerGate in a topic about JonTron? Well guess who was a GamerGate supporter!

Now if this topic doesn't get me called an SJW, nothing will!
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Posted 4/2/17
Should this be in the gaming forums? Idk.

I think the majority of JonTron fans just judge his videos as videos and not on how much of a shitheel he may or may not be away from the camera. But yeah, he does have some reeeaaaally racist fans that do absolutely nothing to help his whole "Im not racist" shtick.
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Posted 4/2/17 , edited 4/3/17
lol do you really expect someone to read all that on a forum post? Btw this should be posted under gaming. And no he won't really hurt his followers and once again, no he isn't a racists as Destiny kinda forced him into saying the things he were saying as he is shit at arguing with people about politics. Btw he is the son on two immigrants
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Posted 4/2/17 , edited 4/2/17
Guilty by association is dumb no matter how you try to spin it.

Also, it sounds like you have no idea what Gamer Gate was if you don't think Zoe Quinn is relevant to games journalism, but I don't think that is a discussion that needs to be had again.
mo-gan 
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Posted 4/2/17
John trons fans have been and will always be irrelevant. John tron can not control his fans, nor should he and what each individual says is their own responsibility. We are not the borg, the voice of one does not equal the voice of all.

I enjoy John trons content, frankly regardless of what he says, if he continues to make good content, I'll still watch and enjoy it. Politics has it's place, and if I wanted to learn about politics I'd go to someone who talks about politics, Milo, Ben Shapiro, whatever and then I'd make my own opinions on what they had to say. One of the last places I would go for politics however is watching a comedian who makes youtube videos.
Posted 4/2/17
JonTron did nothing wrong.

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Posted 4/2/17 , edited 4/4/17
I liked it better when he just talked to his bird
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Posted 4/2/17
I considered the "support argument", which can be summarized as "Would it be right to support a person who views I deeply dislike?" It is not about Jontron, but the practice in general. Should I care if someone whose work I enjoy is a literal Nazi, among other things? I am leaving actions out of it, such as the choice of companies to use slave labor or become careless in product testing, those are immoral acts for most, whilst we are talking about the act of not supporting one due to his beliefs, Jontron or otherwise.

"I do not care what he said". Should the same still hold if Jontron, or anyone else, advocated genocide, or concentration camps, despite making content that has little to do with said views? Or rather, would you say the same if your favorite Youtuber had views you opposed?

I do not know the answer to this. Me thinks that there are limits, and from what I can tell, Jontron is more factually inaccurate than illogically malicious.

The debate between them is treated as one of logic instead of factual truth. Jontron made factual claims that racists usually make, but I think it would be better to question and disprove them, because logically, one believes the truth, and if Jontron believes it is the truth, then I do not see why you cannot simply disprove it. Whether or not he accepts it or argues it efficiently should be the debate.

Malicious irrationality, is what I would consider to be undoubtedly racist, regardless of the truth factor. One could state that a disproportionate amount of violent offenders are black, which I believe is still true. It would be illogical to, based on this fact, to advocate for interment camps for blacks anymore than it would be for the Japanese Americans for sharing the nationality of the attackers of Pearl Harbor. True, the Japanese Government did plan this attack, but the solution implemented is illogical, perhaps due to the ignoring of other facts in themselves.





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Posted 4/2/17 , edited 4/3/17
JonTron might talk about video games, but this does not belong in the 'Gaming Section'. I only made a post there because of 'Yooka-Laylee'. Secondly, I know everything about GamerGate. It was a movement that was completely, and utterly about sexism, and racism, and had nothing to do with 'Gaming Journalism'.

You guys can spin this anyway you want. You can pretend that JonTron's followers couldn't possibly make the situation any worse, but take a look at this article--> http://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/youtube-jontron-controversy-1.4050032 I know, Liberals, and SJWs, and all that crap, but this article was written about 10 hours ago. This is proof that JonTron's little racist rant won't go away. This article also proves a point I wanted to make here.

JonTron's patron account might not disappear, but his cushy little 'Youtube Life', will never be the same again. Here's what I'm sure JonTron is going to be looking forward to.

1. Pulled advertising.
2. Not invited to big gaming events.
3. Early review copies of games. (Especially not from big companies.)

What I find funny about people, is the fact that your average Youtuber has to fight to stay relevant! There's plenty of big Youtubers out there that vanished from the wayside, and there are far bigger ones than JonTron who screwed up, who vanished. This guy's career is over, and yes his followers are going to make it happen! JonTron will be researched by plenty of people who want to write an article about racists Youtubers, they'll spread that name around, and eventually he'll be gone.

It's amazing how JonTron screwed himself over, and even his fans know it. Unfortunately for them, there are more level-headed fans, than there are radical ones.
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Posted 4/2/17

AlienNineFan wrote:Secondly, I know everything about GamerGate


Well thats a pretty bold statement. Everything? Like, theres a lot of things. Everything? Really?
runec 
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Posted 4/2/17
The worst part of the whole JonTron thing is rather than read the situation he decided to go all in and double down. He had made questionable remarks prior to the debate. Got invited to debate Destiny to clarify himself and instead just dumped it all out there. Making it much much worse. If he had any sense he would have walked away from this rather then choose this for a hill to die on.

Most his die hard fans probably won't go anywhere but he's killed his career as anything more than that. No company is ever going to touch him again now.


Amyas_Leigh wrote:
JonTron did nothing wrong.


Colour me shocked that you of all people would hold that opinion. ;p

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Posted 4/2/17 , edited 4/2/17

runec wrote:

The worst part of the whole JonTron thing is rather than read the situation he decided to go all in and double down. He had made questionable remarks prior to the debate. Got invited to debate Destiny to clarify himself and instead just dumped it all out there. Making it much much worse. If he had any sense he would have walked away from this rather then choose this for a hill to die on.


Its not really hard to imagine how it happened. Destiny didn't invite him to "clarify", Destiny invited him to debate (at best). Jon wasn't ready for what Destiny wanted from him, so he was quickly backed into a corner. I think many of us have said some stupid things when we are backed into a corner, especially when you aren't in a situation where you can really sit back and think like when you are on a discussion board.

Now, I don't blame Destiny for what happened, but I also give Jon at least a little room for apologies and clarifications.

That said, I also don't think Jon should have been quiet or walked away. He shouldn't have accepted a debate when he wasn't ready for one, but most of his opinions in their more calm-minded forms aren't really that radical or ridiculous. What he should have done is calm down and try to express them more clearly instead of the opposite. We shouldn't encourage an atmosphere where people are afraid to speak out unless they are really crossing a line (which he didn't before the debate imo).
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Posted 4/2/17
You know, I only read the various statements that both sides have apparently uttered. Apparently, there is an inconsistency with my statement on it being a factual debate instead of logical. Of course, I think some facts are more controversial than others, but some of the claims made by both sides are ridiculous, with Jon being the overly paranoid with Destiny being overly critical. of course, what to me is a possible exaggeration of a truth to the completely bullshit claims are subjective to my views and knowledge on the matter.

I really could search up video statements, but those are hardly truthful it seems.
Humms 
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Posted 4/2/17
The Golden Era of Comedic Gaming

No Sir, Jontron is the voice of reason...... Ecccch, To even suggest this.... How could you? Danny Devito would be turning in his grave.... If he was actually dead.... Dont worry Danny, We love you

Just another day in paradise I suppose, bringing race into everything, and its not even worth it. If it gets to the point where people are flat out censored, that will be the day the world fucked up.


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Posted 4/2/17 , edited 4/2/17

sundin13 wrote:


runec wrote:

The worst part of the whole JonTron thing is rather than read the situation he decided to go all in and double down. He had made questionable remarks prior to the debate. Got invited to debate Destiny to clarify himself and instead just dumped it all out there. Making it much much worse. If he had any sense he would have walked away from this rather then choose this for a hill to die on.


Its not really hard to imagine how it happened. Destiny didn't invite him to "clarify", Destiny invited him to debate (at best). Jon wasn't ready for what Destiny wanted from him, so he was quickly backed into a corner. I think many of us have said some stupid things when we are backed into a corner, especially when you aren't in a situation where you can really sit back and think like when you are on a discussion board.

Now, I don't blame Destiny for what happened, but I also give Jon at least a little room for apologies and clarifications.

That said, I also don't think Jon should have been quiet or walked away. He shouldn't have accepted a debate when he wasn't ready for one, but most of his opinions in their more calm-minded forms aren't really that radical or ridiculous. What he should have done is calm down and try to express them more clearly instead of the opposite. We shouldn't encourage an atmosphere where people are afraid to speak out unless they are really crossing a line (which he didn't before the debate imo).


I feel that Destiny is more interested in shaming people if anything else. Granted, some do deserve criticism, but my main concern stems from a video titled "Debating a 15 year old Avid Trump Supporter". I cannot really support this action, even though the civility and maturity of said teenager was quite high.

It is shameful if you ask me, considering the scope of his show.
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