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Post Reply My Two-Faced Little Sister Season 2 Anticipation
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Posted 4/11/17 , edited 4/12/17

kkmenchi wrote:

PV you are really overthinking this, it's just a comedy that uses an imouto instead of an adult woman like the manga and live action show it's copying Hotaru no Hikari.


I am trying to reason out my dislike for my personal gain, rather then why others should dislike it...I think. (I may have did the last one, sorry).

Umaru is an immature dick, basically. No one in the show acknowledges it, the show questionably plays it for rule of cute, and Taihei is a complete doormat, or in internet terms, a "pussy". Umaru is not an evil sociopath like The Joker of Detective Comics , or Rick Sanchez from Rick and Morty, or that of Eric Cartman from South Park. She is just annoying, and realistically enough to incur a negative reaction from me.

I think if you enjoy it, you should. Just my 2 cents.
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Posted 4/15/17 , edited 4/15/17
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Posted 8/10/17 , edited 8/10/17
Key visual

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Posted 8/23/17 , edited 8/23/17
Battle for Best girl returns
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Posted 8/23/17 , edited 8/23/17
What if the aim of the joke is to cringe at Umaru, though? Kind of like with Tomoko in Watamote? Getting upset at Umaru for being cringeworthy is missing the joke if that's how it is, right?
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Posted 8/23/17 , edited 8/23/17

BlueOni wrote:

What if the aim of the joke is to cringe at Umaru, though? Kind of like with Tomoko in Watamote? Getting upset at Umaru for being cringeworthy is missing the joke if that's how it is, right?


I do not mean to hate on what I think teenagers are, mainly because I am most likely stereotyping a general population in association with a flaw ("Teenagers today do not want to work hard, tapping away on their I-Phones and their knick-knacks!"), but I find it hard not to think that this anime is catering to a demographic in a horrific way. The way being that teenagers are of a lazy sort who want to achieve so much without the work that has to be put in, who want to remain dependent in lieu of real world competence via being catered to on their every whims, and essentially, being so entitled to this lifestyle at the chagrin of others. This seems to pander more to a petty sort of immorality than any sense of being a flawed being, and it ends up being an annoyance.

I do not see the cues that Umaru is supposed to be made fun of as much as an attempt to cater to a certain demographic. Problem being, is that the repercussion she suffer are as nonexistent as her revelations to better herself. Her flaws are rarely balanced out by moral goodness that sticks for the 12 episode of the 1st season. Saying "I am sorry" does not mean anything in repetition; if one was truly sorry, they would not do it twice, and not certainly three or four times. Hence why her worrying over Taihei being sick bothers me greatly; she is vastly incompetent and can even be said to be self pitying, but she also doesn't change from such a harrowing worry. If this minute long stretch of concern is all she can muster, than she is far more callous than people give her credit for.

Tomoko is responsible for her own suffering, as many would say, but I hardly think stupidity and social ineptness deserves the same standing as being morally in the wrong, and indeed, Tomoko was the primary sufferer of her own self inflicted torture. She does do some questionable things, but what balances it out is the mindset Tomoko has for, a cynicism rising out of despising what you cannot have. This is perhaps almost the same level of someone like Asuka Langley Soryu from Neon Genisis Evangelion, whose mean spirited egotism is balanced out by the realism invoked by the superiority-inferiority complex she has. Tomoko hits far harder at home when I can understand why she thinks why she does, and Watamote is considered the least humorous anime by so many people. Once you got past the humor, its sadism is unmatched, and I cannot fathom how anyone could enjoy Watamote, but what I can say that there is some worth for this type of tragedy, which a select few would come across, and since my belief is that this is wholly intentional (As Watamote's source material was largely just a 4-Koma gag series), I think it very well succeeds in portraying the trouble adolescence of a loner who pushes people away despite wanting to pull them closer.

Umaru is a relatively knowable evil, and unfortunately, is a source of annoyance, which I contest is what no piece of entertainment should be to the consumer. This would be forgivable if she was her chibi's age, but at 16, throwing a tantrum to get your salaryman brother to buy you some goddamn Coca-Cola after work, and then having the brother actually do it...I hate both of them. I do. He is a bad onii chan. He should discipline his imouto more. Spank her, even. SPANK HER LONG AND HARD.

To reiterate the points, Umaru never gets punished, never grows up beyond such a base phrase to take on responsibilities, and is unabated with how far she takes things, reinforced by how Taihei gives in but never bothering to give her a slap on a cheek. It is cringeworthy when one thinks people enjoy this, and of course, act like it. Umaru does not deserve compassion, she is a spoiled brat.

I would argue that Watamore only masquerades as a gag anime to present the events in an alternative, somber view. Despite Tomoko's actions and occasionally demeaning worldview, it is a far less shallow look into the mindset, and due to how "stuck" she is believing how much the world hates her, even if it this not an accurate depiction. In the end, she seems to need therapy and compassion, and we have seen how she reacts to it with the student president. It is cringe worthy through a personal experience within some people, versus Umaru who is only personal via acquaintance for most, or in my experience, being just like Umaru.

I hate it. It feels like a celebration of every aspect of adolescence I decided to let go, instead of a righteous sort of condemnation.


Come to think of it, they missed an opportunity to make Kirie Motoba the main character. Not only is she best girl, but she can pull off a much more moe Tomoko.



I love Kirie. I love Kirie so goddamn much. Best waifu.
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Posted 8/23/17 , edited 8/24/17
Is "My Two-Faced Little Sister" the English title? I thought this was some anime I never heard of until I clicked through this thread.

PV, I respect your opinion (you appreciate "Watamote" after all) but it appears that this series rubs you wrong in very specific ways that others aren't bothered by.
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Posted 8/23/17 , edited 8/24/17

MadeDragon wrote:

Is "My Two-Faced Little Sister" the English title? I thought this was some anime I never heard of until I clicked through this thread.

PV, I respect your opinion (you appreciate "Watamote" after all) but it appears that this series rubs you wrong in very specific ways that others aren't bothered by.



No, I met others who were bothered for similar reasons, but I suspect mine runs deeper than simple "millennial hate", if anything; while I think such next generational hate is a bit narrow minded, I understand why it would bother someone of my age or older would associate Umaru Doma with in the first place. In fact, I believe this is main reason why people who hate it do. This is not the anywhere similar to "this anime reminds me of a specific traumatic experience few would experience", but something I deem a "knowable evil", in that everyone has some experience with it, or personal gripe. An entitled teenager who lacks maturity does hit many nerves, but Taihei contributes by being a bad parent figure, which only contributes to the image people already have of how this generation sucks or the next.

Even if such a bias was rendered negligible, Umaru is actually quite an annoyance to me, while characters like Tachibana and Kirie were relatively enjoyable. Though with Watamote, it is because of personal experience that I believe it has such worth, despite being a bad viewing experience, whereas Umaru made me reconsider another issue in media of "Is it ever a great idea to be an annoyance to your viewer" and I say that no, no it is not.

Shows like Barefoot Gen and movies like Hotel Rwanda cannot be enjoyed, but experienced and appreciated for what they are showing the viewer.

A simple, petty annoyance has no value to the audience. That being said, a quote I heard was "We hate others for things we love or hate about ourselves", referring to personal experiences and self held values, and sometimes, these are irrational applications. I just do not see how I am wrong, or even that much of an abnormal outlier.
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Posted 8/24/17 , edited 8/24/17
An anime that explore the life of some problematic otaku kids with moe elements...this is interesting.
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Posted 8/24/17 , edited 8/24/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:



There are many perspectives on what comedy is and how it works, one of which being that laughter is a reflexive response to discomfort, anxiety, or pain. This is why stand-up comedians frequently bring up difficult, controversial topics in their routines, because well-constructed comedy can be a way to break the ice on conversations that are otherwise too awkward or upsetting for people to want to breach (or indeed, even pay attention to).

A critical tool in the comedian's kit when they want to draw attention to a particular characteristic of something or someone they feel needs to be addressed is exaggeration. When this is cleverly done the kind of thought process a person's mind might undergo if they have this characteristic is one of self-reflection that is facilitated by a sense of levity brought on by the silliness of the spectacle. "Sure, I like to eat junk food, play video games, and lay about the house during my time off, and I probably do it more than I should, but at least I'm not that bad!" an actual, real life otaku might think with a laugh while watching Himouto. And if one isn't an otaku but has someone like that in their life that is one they might feel freer to point out the otaku's less desirable tendencies due to the same sense of levity. This is why, if you look out in a crowd during a stand-up routine, sometimes you'll see men or women pointing at their significant others with a smile on both their faces when some sort of bad behaviour is brought up. That's what's happening there, and I think that's what's supposed to happen when someone's watching Himouto.

Basically, I don't think Umaru is the way she is to be celebrated. I think she's there to be a comical exaggeration of undesirable tendencies people sometimes have. Context informs us that these characteristics are undesirable, or else Umaru wouldn't be trying to hide the way she behaves at home from the entire world and trying to put up the opposite sort of behaviour as an illusion. She doesn't need to be punished because the audience doesn't need to be beaten over the head with the message that her behaviour is inappropriate. It's already generally understood as such.
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Posted 8/24/17 , edited 8/25/17

BlueOni wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:



There are many perspectives on what comedy is and how it works, one of which being that laughter is a reflexive response to discomfort, anxiety, or pain. This is why stand-up comedians frequently bring up difficult, controversial topics in their routines, because well-constructed comedy can be a way to break the ice on conversations that are otherwise too awkward or upsetting for people to want to breach (or indeed, even pay attention to).

A critical tool in the comedian's kit when they want to draw attention to a particular characteristic of something or someone they feel needs to be addressed is exaggeration. When this is cleverly done the kind of thought process a person's mind might undergo if they have this characteristic is one of self-reflection that is facilitated by a sense of levity brought on by the silliness of the spectacle. "Sure, I like to eat junk food, play video games, and lay about the house during my time off, and I probably do it more than I should, but at least I'm not that bad!" an actual, real life otaku might think with a laugh while watching Himouto. And if one isn't an otaku but has someone like that in their life that is one they might feel freer to point out the otaku's less desirable tendencies due to the same sense of levity. This is why, if you look out in a crowd during a stand-up routine, sometimes you'll see men or women pointing at their significant others with a smile on both their faces when some sort of bad behaviour is brought up. That's what's happening there, and I think that's what's supposed to happen when someone's watching Himouto.

Basically, I don't think Umaru is the way she is to be celebrated. I think she's there to be a comical exaggeration of undesirable tendencies people sometimes have. Context informs us that these characteristics are undesirable, or else Umaru wouldn't be trying to hide the way she behaves at home from the entire world and trying to put up the opposite sort of behaviour as an illusion. She doesn't need to be punished because the audience doesn't need to be beaten over the head with the message that her behaviour is inappropriate. It's already generally understood as such.


Well, a comical exaggeration would be the chibi transformation bit, which is quite fantastical. I think I understand the need for perhaps a mean spirited comedy in the veins of Watamote, and as a gag series, it would be critically important for Umaru to remain in such a way to enhance the status quo series, while maintaining some self awareness. True to note, we never have anyone tell us that Tomoko isn't meant to be idolized by sympathized, that her thought processes, while natural, are not at all healthy to have at any length in time.

I should be aware that my idea of what humor is does not necessarily take away from the author's "intent", if they have quite a purpose in writing such a thing. Humor tackling subjects is something I have seen a great deal of, from black comedian tackling race issues from before The Richard Pryor Show, and the bleakness of Todd Solondz films like Happiness andDark Horse, which are apparently "comedies" (More or less a even more bleak take on life and society, and a cynical viewpoint of middle class urbanites and such)

That being said, in a response to why I dislike certain chapters more than others in Akame Ga Kill, it may be equally applicable to Himegoto and Himouto!, as I may not understand whatever point the author is, or whether or not he is communicating it effectively. Subtlety is something I think rarely works well, and no, I hate Fairy Tail too for indeed hitting us over the head with its aesops on friendship that dictates the story in such a way that is infuriatingly simplistic and beyond optimistic, but simply naive take that is not that useful in real life in its portrayal.

To say something about my Akame Ga Kill example, there is a chapter known as Chapter 23.5, which focuses on 3 girls unrelated to the general storyline. They go to the city looking for work, where they are enslaved for sexual and torturous ends, with one girl blinded on the first day, and the other two tortured and rape. All but one survives, the other commits suicide, and the other eventually succumbs to the torture, while the other puts out a contract on their killers with Night Raid before perishing on a street corner as a vagrant, with the chapter spanning under 30 pages.

To sum up my reading experience, I have to ask "What is the point?" What is the author trying to tell us? For Himegoto, it was sexual harassment for 10 episodes, before the student council apparently "goes too far" with filming an attempted rape of Hime, before Hime forgives them in the last episode after they apologized. Even before the bull transpiring in the last two episode, the punchline amounts to a bunch of attractive girls manipulating a crossdressing boy into being into several uncomfortable situations of his own displeasure, knowing full well what would happen, and it seems there is suppose to be an inherent sense of humor into seeing bulges on a pretty feminine figure. However, it rings shallow of any further examination due to how simplistic it already is, alongside its mean spirited nature that is ignored and repeated ad nauseum.

I see just two things in this anime, a spoiled brat and an a brother who enables her every turn. She begins to have reflections that are no more than easily put away guilt trips. It could be interesting if the brother made more of a concerted effort to not put up with it, similar to how exasperate Vigne is with Gabriel from Dropout, but he goes beyond what any familial person should do, and his gripes are hardly reiterated or heard, although the ending phrase does appear he acknowledges her in a critical light as his " himouto"? Even if I understood the author's intent, I do not know as of if it is actually well done, by my standards, as I have to process your argument as to what my standards should even be. I am not sure what context is besides the duality, which is convincing, but Taihei is the ultimate obstacle to my understanding as such, since he is the biggest...what is the word...unassertive person I have seen, and seemingly detrimental in how he doesn't acknowledge it as a problem like many parents today are perceived al la affluenza to have done.

While I cannot help but agree that Umaru is a reflection of real world traits people do tend to display more often than the rapacious sadism of Akame Ga Kill, I criticize Umaru as a character, for seemingly pandering to a demographic by producing a character that encompasses every bad trait, when I think that in the end, they are actually better than that, and not quite as immoral as the anime would suggest, but you did say it is not a literal portrayal as much as an exaggerated examination. Hence, why I used celebration, when these things, while I myselfperceived them as immoral, may just be egregious example of playing to people's desire to see someone like themselves on screen without any sort of indication that the anime is criticizing their behavior, but uplifting it as not worthy of being disliked, more than the assuaging nature of Watamote, but the sort of indulgence Martin Luther nailed his 95 suggestions under the church's windshield protesting against. I think people do need sympathy and empathizing, as Watamote has done, but not indirectly indemnified of their (harmful) irresponsibility on the silver screen. This is beyond me looking what society generally doesn't tolerate and by extension what the creators most likely think, because it seems a bit unhelpful to think "Oh no they did not". So I have to think of your viewpoint of the series as possibly valid, more than some inappropriately overdone catering that ends up insulting the audience as well as people outside the general viewing range. Especially since I believe you said the OVAs show Umaru beginning to mature in some ways.

Truth be told, I would most likely be annoyed if someone tried to dress it up as a general aesop fable too. I am an adult, and if this is not meant for children, do it more subtly. (Yes, I am hypocritical, I deserved to be spanked. )

My main course of thought tonight tonight is.

-What does Himouto! hope to do, if anything at all?

+(Does it mean to play to the flawed desires of adolescence, or the an acknowledgement of sorts, bordering on a laugh at her laugh with her sort of thing. You can tell which side I am originally on.)

-Does it do it well?

+(While the chibi transformation does serve as a visual indication of utmost fantasy, her behavior does not seem all that exaggerated for a generally loathsome person as well as Taihei)
+(Is it self aware and have just enough context?)

Huzzah, I am off this evening. Truth be told, I genuinely hated Watamote, but even if I criticize it being more hurtful, a review and rebuttal did change my opinion of the show. In particular, a reviewer named Veronin states that "it is the very opposite of escapism", and looking to all the Isekai works out there, I can appreciate the focus on an important issue, while I still criticize Watamote for not seeming to having a point, or having it be too drawn out that most lose disinterest.

I hope I do not offend you or appear to aggressive. :(


Edit: Just realized that in support of your argument, that Umaru herself does acknowledge at times that she believes she is in the wrong, however brief. That being said, it ultimately feels hallow when it doesn't stick, perhaps due to the status quo I mentioned earlier. To me, this is the pinnacle of annoyance, a sort of feckless self awareness. An indecisive commitment to being run of the mill to something a little more different. When a source of entertainment acknowledges its flaws of the general story and its components, and expects you to laugh at it as if they are of higher quality of anime that lack the self awareness, despite lacking a real impact, it ends up being unsatisfying display of ostentatious hypocrisy that outdoes its humble denigrations. It is but it a gimmick in the end, that provides brief distraction by fooling the viewer that this is different, when everything is played straight and without remorse.

Yeah, I can agree she is an unhelpful brat, but what is the point of showing Umaru to be acknowledging of her flaws if the anime is noncommittal in rendering any meaningful event from transpiring at all? In essence, I just hate a prolonged c**k tease, to put it in a more brief manner.

Not quite sure if I said anything here, I just had this revelation I should have added earlier.
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Posted 8/24/17 , edited 8/25/17
PV, you're still young. Give it a few years and you'll find laughing at youthful idiots amusing too.
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Posted 8/24/17 , edited 8/25/17
See, I could enjoy laughing at Umaru if she failed. But as it is, she seems to always get what she wants, so the joke is apparently on me.
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Posted 8/24/17 , edited 8/25/17

MadeDragon wrote:

PV, you're still young. Give it a few years and you'll find laughing at youthful idiots amusing too.


Not quite sure, but it depends on the antics. Someone like Danielle Bregoli seems far too tragic that I cannot get any pleasure when she inevitably does fail. Not only is she a millionaire because of her irresponsibility landing her a reality TV show, but keep in mind that there are adults who exploit this without tell her to be a better person, and for this to happen to a 14 going on 15 year old, just makes depressed. Depressed she is popular, depressed that no one wants to help her grow in lieu of of continuing her instability adolescence, and it is cynical, honestly.

If you are referring to general stupidity, I need to think of possible examples. It seems more apt for one to say there is humor Watamote's Tomoko acting stupid, but I think that it is just cruelty, albeit with a purpose.

I do tend to laugh at absurdity, including egregious displays of people acting dumb. Not sure what you mean though, in relation to the previous posts.

Also, to note, I cannot really say I care that you like or love this anime. That is a great thing, to take pleasure from this I could not, that is in the end harmless and not quite that offensive as something like The Turner Diaries or Himegoto (Yes, I compared them. Subject to interpersonal review later).
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