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Post Reply U.S. uses its largest non-nuclear weapon for the first time in Afghanistan
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Posted 4/14/17 , edited 4/14/17

outontheop wrote:
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Well, yes, I suppose if you were desperate to blame everything, to include the very horror of war itself, on the US, it might seem that way to you. You would, however, be laughably wrong.

Napoleonic wars were horrid affairs. Rennaisance wars were horrid affairs. Medieval wars were horrid affairs. Civilian casualties were always a factor, and unlike in modern (1940s onward) warfare where civilian casualties were a result of warfare expanding to include targeting of munitions production centers and industrial bases, in the earlier wars, civilian casualties were *intentional slaughter*. In the 30 years' war 1618-1648, catholic and protestant europe slaughtered each other with such abandon that they killed the same proportion of the population as was killed in WW2. And that's not counting the deaths from disease and starvation resulting from the armies foraging/ plundering the land barren, which killed millions more. For most of the early and high medieval periods, it was considered standard etiquitte that a sieging army was permitted to kill every man woman and child in a town that refused to surrender and had to be taken by storming. While casualties among knights were low, this was simply because they were wealthy, therefore a) well armored (unlike the peasants that made the bulk of medieval european armies in the early and high medieval), and b) if captured alive, could be ransomed for quite a bit of cash (again, unlike the peasants, whose ransom was worthless and were therefore simply killed). Lest you think this was a purely european thing, mind that the Japanese slaughtered almost 30% of the population of Korea (including the women and children) in the Imjin war of 1592-1598, that Tamerlane built monuments of skulls of slaughtered towns, and that Mohammed himself killed entire tribes to a man for opposing his rule. Not even going to start in on the mongols or huns.

But, sure, war was awesome until, you know, America.


Hey now, I'm no oikophobe here. America is making itself great again and I'm proud of it.

What i'm getting at is that the unavoidable civilian casualties seem to be more a product of modern technology. The peasant soldiers were still soldiers. And the Japanese slaughtering Korean civilians? Certainly their desire was not to avoid civilian casualties.
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Posted 4/14/17

Ryulightorb wrote:


thatgirl202 wrote:

Afghanistan is a hell hole, I hope they bomp the whole place up.


yeah cause fuck innocent lives amirite



Afghanistan is a place where it is ok to rape children, nobody has done anything to stop the Bacha Bazi and the "customers" are the elite people, the ones from the army and government. If no one cares to help the children and oppressed women, then don't come to me saying "what about the innocent lives? "

Tsk tsk all I see from your comments is "now ISIS will get mad and it will get worse!!!1" that's the coward mentality that has allowed ISIS to spread like fire.

If you don't have a better solution except saying "there's nothing we can do" then you don't have any right to complain. It is worse to do nothing and everybody knows that in wars the innocent dies but that's a risk that we should take.

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Posted 4/14/17 , edited 4/14/17

thatgirl202 wrote:

Afghanistan is a place where it is ok to rape children, nobody has done anything to stop the Bacha Bazi and the "customers" are the elite people, the ones from the army and government. If no one cares to help the children and oppressed women, then don't come to me saying "what about the innocent lives? "




Ugh. I saw a documentary about that. It is so sad :(

USA turned a blind eye, I was so mad when Obama told the soldiers to not interfere with the Bacha Bazi

I hope Trump can do something about it.

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Posted 4/14/17 , edited 4/14/17

Ryulightorb wrote:


So short sighted if you think that.... Dropping bombs doesn't solve it if anything it strengthens them if you cannot cut the source the bombing is just adding fuel to the fire.


You really have to think this kind of stuff out. If attacking people made the defenders stronger then war would be good and desirable. Think about it:

1) Group A attacks B, making B stronger
2) Group B attacks A, making them stronger
3) Group A attacks B, making them stronger

ad infinitum.

But what do we see in actual wars? Both sides gradually getting worn and weaker. What you are saying is that "What kills us makes us stronger"
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Posted 4/14/17

thatgirl202 wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


thatgirl202 wrote:

Afghanistan is a hell hole, I hope they bomp the whole place up.


yeah cause fuck innocent lives amirite



Afghanistan is a place where it is ok to rape children, nobody has done anything to stop the Bacha Bazi and the "customers" are the elite people, the ones from the army and government. If no one cares to help the children and oppressed women, then don't come to me saying "what about the innocent lives? "

Tsk tsk all I see from your comments is "now ISIS will get mad and it will get worse!!!1" that's the coward mentality that has allowed ISIS to spread like fire.

If you don't have a better solution except saying "there's nothing we can do" then you don't have any right to complain. It is worse to do nothing and everybody knows that in wars the innocent dies but that's a risk that we should take.




Nah it's not a cowards mentality you are foolish to think so it's called being tactical and picking fights you can win and not running in like a idiot.
It's worse to make a situation worse by bombing them then let it keep happening.....the best we can do is monitor gain information and form a strike on all bases at once.

Also yes it is a place like that but there are still innocents.
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Posted 4/14/17

karatecowboy wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


So short sighted if you think that.... Dropping bombs doesn't solve it if anything it strengthens them if you cannot cut the source the bombing is just adding fuel to the fire.


You really have to think this kind of stuff out. If attacking people made the defenders stronger then war would be good and desirable. Think about it:

1) Group A attacks B, making B stronger
2) Group B attacks A, making them stronger
3) Group A attacks B, making them stronger

ad infinitum.

But what do we see in actual wars? Both sides gradually getting worn and weaker. What you are saying is that "What kills us makes us stronger"



That is not the case the fact in wars is attacks are strategical to avoid making them stronger.
an attack on one base can make an enemy stronger due to igniting hatred in people however strategic attacks wear down the enemy and negate the effect of more people joining in.

You are right you do have to think this kind of stuff out sadly alot of people don't and just want to jump the gun and bomb an enemy base thinking that alone will do wonders.

I don't think dropping a bomb was the right decision here not right now atleast unless they have plans they have not made open to the public then i could be wrong but they will need to follow this up with something else if they want it to be of benefit.

I'm hoping though the US militairy has some smart people but the president deciding to bomb places without second thought is NOT a good thing bombing an enemy should be a strategical decision.

But as i said i don't know what they are planning i only know as much as everyone else information wise.
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Posted 4/14/17 , edited 4/14/17

nerdtox wrote:


thatgirl202 wrote:

Afghanistan is a place where it is ok to rape children, nobody has done anything to stop the Bacha Bazi and the "customers" are the elite people, the ones from the army and government. If no one cares to help the children and oppressed women, then don't come to me saying "what about the innocent lives? "




Ugh. I saw a documentary about that. It is so sad :(

USA turned a blind eye, I was so mad when Obama told the soldiers to not interfere with the Bacha Bazi

I hope Trump can do something about it.


Many people think the US should not interfere but then again there are good arguments for both side.

If trump does interfere it will be funny as he already told Obama to not interfere with Syria years ago and now has done the same thing he said not to do.... with that and if he does interfere it's not going to go down well on his track record it's going to give him a worse name then he has now.

If Trump is smart he will be careful with his next moves and not just rush in and declare war like he is doing with North Korea (which is stupid no rational person would do that)
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Posted 4/14/17

MysticGon wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/13/us-drops-largest-non-nuclear-bomb-in-afghanistan-after-green-beret-killed.html

After the death of a special forces soldier the military blows up the whole area...

https://youtu.be/i9H50tHiHjs

Well things are ramping up quickly.


Why hasn't this happened in other Middle Eastern countries or Chicago yet?
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Posted 4/14/17
From what I understand, Trump is launching military attacks in the Middle East despite his previous isolationist position. I wonder what are his reasons for increased military intervention. I can understand his hostility with North Korea especially with the nuclear missile testing but the hostility in the Middle East may need more explaining. The war against a Muslim government is in the interest of Christians. Assad may threaten to restrict, or even ban, oil export to US which could force the US economy to depend on other source of oil.
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Posted 4/14/17 , edited 4/14/17

Ryulightorb wrote:

Many people think the US should not interfere but then again there are good arguments for both side.

If trump does interfere it will be funny as he already told Obama to not interfere with Syria years ago and now has done the same thing he said not to do.... with that and if he does interfere it's not going to go down well on his track record it's going to give him a worse name then he has now.

If Trump is smart he will be careful with his next moves and not just rush in and declare war like he is doing with North Korea (which is stupid no rational person would do that)


Well, people always change their minds. I can't judge Trump for something he said many years ago, the circumstances have changed and he felt the need to change his mind. I mean, children are sacred. It is evil when you do these things on children.

As for interfering, I meant to say that I hope Trump help those children. Obama gave them his back. The USA soldiers wanted to help the boys who were being used as sex slaves near their base in Afghanistan but Obama told them not to interfere because that wasn't our problem. How evil is that? if you have the chance to help someone in need, you don't turn your back just because you are afraid of the higher powers.

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Posted 4/14/17

nerdtox wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:

Many people think the US should not interfere but then again there are good arguments for both side.

If trump does interfere it will be funny as he already told Obama to not interfere with Syria years ago and now has done the same thing he said not to do.... with that and if he does interfere it's not going to go down well on his track record it's going to give him a worse name then he has now.

If Trump is smart he will be careful with his next moves and not just rush in and declare war like he is doing with North Korea (which is stupid no rational person would do that)


Well, people always change their minds. I can't judge Trump for something he said many years ago, the circumstances have changed and he felt the need to change his mind. I mean, children are sacred. It is evil when you do these things on children.

As for interfering, I meant to say that I hope Trump help those children. Obama gave them his back. The USA soldiers wanted to help the boys who were being used as sex slaves near their base in Afghanistan but Obama told them not to interfere because that wasn't our problem. How evil is that? if you have the chance to help someone in need, you don't turn your back just because you are afraid of the higher powers.



Fair reasoning I can agree with that
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Posted 4/14/17 , edited 4/14/17

karatecowboy wrote:


outontheop wrote:
]

Well, yes, I suppose if you were desperate to blame everything, to include the very horror of war itself, on the US, it might seem that way to you. You would, however, be laughably wrong.

Napoleonic wars were horrid affairs. Rennaisance wars were horrid affairs. Medieval wars were horrid affairs. Civilian casualties were always a factor, and unlike in modern (1940s onward) warfare where civilian casualties were a result of warfare expanding to include targeting of munitions production centers and industrial bases, in the earlier wars, civilian casualties were *intentional slaughter*. In the 30 years' war 1618-1648, catholic and protestant europe slaughtered each other with such abandon that they killed the same proportion of the population as was killed in WW2. And that's not counting the deaths from disease and starvation resulting from the armies foraging/ plundering the land barren, which killed millions more. For most of the early and high medieval periods, it was considered standard etiquitte that a sieging army was permitted to kill every man woman and child in a town that refused to surrender and had to be taken by storming. While casualties among knights were low, this was simply because they were wealthy, therefore a) well armored (unlike the peasants that made the bulk of medieval european armies in the early and high medieval), and b) if captured alive, could be ransomed for quite a bit of cash (again, unlike the peasants, whose ransom was worthless and were therefore simply killed). Lest you think this was a purely european thing, mind that the Japanese slaughtered almost 30% of the population of Korea (including the women and children) in the Imjin war of 1592-1598, that Tamerlane built monuments of skulls of slaughtered towns, and that Mohammed himself killed entire tribes to a man for opposing his rule. Not even going to start in on the mongols or huns.

But, sure, war was awesome until, you know, America.


Hey now, I'm no oikophobe here. America is making itself great again and I'm proud of it.

What i'm getting at is that the unavoidable civilian casualties seem to be more a product of modern technology. The peasant soldiers were still soldiers. And the Japanese slaughtering Korean civilians? Certainly their desire was not to avoid civilian casualties.


TWO people saying smart things? Is this still the internet?

As stupid as it sounds, dropping this giant bomb seems to have worked. Even if it was just for show (and it probably wasn't), everyone's still falling for it in that we're talking about it. It almost certainly wasn't Trump's idea - what would he know about the proper time and place for such a thing - though he probably had to sign off on it in some sense. Although... well, maybe I can imagine him saying, "Don't we have some giant bomb we can use? I heard about it a few years ago - the MAMA?" Anyway, propaganda isn't any less propaganda if you know what it is. But being meta doesn't always work; hopefully our foreign policy will be Monogatari-meta and not Saekano-meta.
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Posted 4/14/17 , edited 4/14/17

D4nc3Style wrote:

Go big or go home.

Wish we'd just go home in that case.

They already know what the fuck we're capable of without us having to throw away 100m to prove it.
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Posted 4/14/17
I don't think some of you are in a position to give military and strategic advice lol
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Posted 4/14/17
When this war is over. I don't envy the cleanup crew.
Like both sides have caused absurd damage to the territory.
ISIS Destroyed and stole valuable historical items and sold them on the blackmarket.
Oh yeah and don't even get me started on the environmental damage caused over the last 10 years.
Like legit question here. Is the middle east even livable anymore? At this point they might as well demolish entire city's and start over.
By start over I mean take down all the architecture and revamp the whole thing which will cost billions if not millions.
Like by the time this is over there won't even be but a stone left of that place. Not one stone.
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