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Post Reply Can Hate speech be allowed?
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Posted 4/15/17

MonoDreams wrote:

This has to be a troll, just look at his profile.

This thread plus the "will someone be my friend?" thread of his in chit chat actually makes me feel kind of bad for the guy.

He obviously needs some sort of therapy or counseling or something.
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Posted 4/15/17 , edited 4/15/17

onemannation2012 wrote:


TheOmegaForce70941 wrote:

I think people have the right to say whatever they want as part of free speech. But I don't think free speech should be used in a way where you can get away by saying anything without being punished for it. So in other words, if you say fucked up shit then expect to get counter arguments or a fist up your face (or worse). I also do not think it's up to government bodies to limit free speech like by having hate laws as I think that should be handled more on a person to person basis. I also do think organizations, companies and the like should be allowed to set their own rules for what opinions are ok and not in their social groups as there's always the choice to go elsewhere if you don't like it.

Oh and neither facebook nor google are "Jewish media". Sure there might be jews in the company and a couple investors, but that doesn't make them "Jewish media". Yes their both hardcore leftist companies but that does not equal "Jewish media".

And too bad you were kicked out, I wonder why.... looks at profile pic....



Actually they are most of the CEO and the most stock holders are jewish so yes i can fully said they are Jewish. on google and facebook. and youtube etc. just like holloywood is mostly jewish anti christian.


I dare you to watch the videos in my profile pic with a open mind and lets see how you feel then?



Here's the problem.

There really is a problem with leftist using "Hate Speech" as a tool to silence whoever they don't agree with. College campuses will turn on a speaker the instant that speaker tries to forward conservative ideas.

However, promoting hatred of a group by demonizing them is a tool of Fascists. For example: Telling the world that Jews are evil because they control the markets, and using that speech to drive hatred of jews. That is what Hitler did, and we all know that he perpetrated the worst mass murders in the history of our current civilization.

The thing is this.

To combat Fascist's hate mongering speech, designed to demonize a group of people, just because they are who they are, shutting them down, the way the leftists do, is not the way to go. What is needed is a counter argument to show that such thinking is deeply flawed, and should be avoided.

Speech designed to drive up hatred of a people should not be silenced, but instead challenged in debate. So, that in intellectual discourse, people can hear both sides, and see for themselves that there really is something wrong with hating someone just because they are different.

EDIT:

As an example: You propose that the world's problems are the fault of the Jews. You propose that idea. That idea, should be challenged in debate, but instead, someone wants to shut you up, and have your thread shut down.

Both are wrong headed. You're idea which ultimately will lead to hating the Jews, because (you say) they are at the root of all of our world's woes. The denial of free speech, however, attempting to silence you by making your thread disappear may seem like the right thing to do, but it is not.

Whoever controls the ability to shut down anyone else's speech will use that power to shut any speech that they don't like.

Look at CR Forums, for example. A lot is done by leftists to shut down the speech of conservatives. They derail threads, hijack threads, report threads, bate conservatives into angry statements, and the threads are then shut down. The conservative's idea is lost in the noise of the leftists not wanting to debate, but instead, are only interested in shutting down any speech that does not conform to their ideology.

Both are bad. Shutting free speech down is bad, and making speech that leads to hating others, by scapegoating them, is also bad.
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Posted 4/15/17

onemannation2012 wrote:



Actually they are most of the CEO and the most stock holders are jewish so yes i can fully said they are Jewish. on google and facebook. and youtube etc. just like holloywood is mostly jewish anti christian.


I dare you to watch the videos in my profile pic with a open mind and lets see how you feel then?



The average IQ for Jews is 15 points higher than the population average. It doesn't surprise me if they tend to hold a lot of lofty positions in society. Is this any surprise? Crack open your Bible. God told Abraham he would make a nation of his descendants that would bless the world... even if they have funny facial hair.
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Posted 4/16/17 , edited 4/16/17

onemannation2012 wrote:

For example lets say that Islam really do believe in raping and killing women, that Jews are the root of all evil and that Christians can kill gays.

If its the truth why does it matter if its hateful? Not just on here, but in college etc. If one can show that x did y and that x is trash how is that hate speech?

Is hate speech just a tool made by non free speech users? What is hate speech? Who defines hate speech?

Is slandering and lying hate speech?


I am doing a topic this on my college class and i got kick out for hate speech so now i am agreeing that hate speech is just a tool of a loser witch no debate. Why does the Jewish media (Facebook, Google, ETC) like to talk about hate speech so much but doesn't get rid of actual violent Islam. Why can facebook block people but a christian baker has to baked a gay couple cake is that hate speech also why is that?

Why did USA allow communism by the Jewish. Why does USA feed isreal war crimes?

Can we say that the elite Zionist Jews are trash?

At one point to we stop the facts all together? Are we going to really stop producing facts just because it hurt?




I believe in the 1st amendment absolutely. I believe once you start banning controversial speech it is only a matter of time until the government begins banning anything that is critical of it, by lumping it together under this category. Whether or not it is hate speech is irrelevant, as long as you are not inciting violence you are entitled to your own beliefs. Now that being said, that does not mean I need to support said viewpoints or that there is any obligation to hold that viewpoint or speaker in high regards.

Just like the radical left social justice warriors play identity politics and blame large groups of people simply by their belonging to a given social-economical class, race, sex, gender, etc. I find the the radical right ethno-nationalists doing the exact same thing. When can we just start judging people as individuals instead of what race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, and nationality they may or may not be or belong to?

Therefore, I find your alt-right anti-Jewish conspiracy theorist crap utter bullshit and feel quite inclined to call it out as such.
Simply blaming an entire group for all of the world's problems gives your argument zero validity and I feel no further inclination to waste anymore time on it.

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Posted 4/16/17 , edited 4/16/17
There's nothing wrong or immoral about facts and truths as they are absolutes. For example "if one can show that x did y" as supported scientific data from reputable sources, then it's an established fact. The problem is "and that x is trash." is clearly an opinion because morality is subjective to the individual. X certainly didn't think they were trash at the time. Everyone who benefited directly and indirectly from X's actions might thinker higher of X. Also X's victims will hold a grudge and go to any lengths to exaggerate the story to suit their own ends. So I suggest sticking to facts and leaving the opinions out of it.

Private entities should & do have the right to legislate their business practices within their legal right to do so. That said policing the internet requires far more man power than one can imagine. But the baker shot himself in the foot by making it a religious issue vs a civil rights issue. The solution was to handle it like a business deal.

The next three questions all stem from the same cognitive dissonance because one believes there is nothing another could say to them that they would take serious offense to; and therefore all other people should be able to the same. In short since one cannot be offended one has no reason to show restraint or civility in conversation. I am positive there is no answer to these you'd find acceptable.

So facts supported by scientific data will always be accepted and passed on regardless of how they make people feel. But "producing" facts that only suit one's narrative is a form of suppressing freedom of speech as well. Data manipulation is still data manipulation.

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Posted 4/16/17

camay1997 wrote:Private entities should & do have the right to legislate their business practices within their legal right to do so. That said policing the internet requires far more man power than one can imagine. But the baker shot himself in the foot by making it a religious issue vs a civil rights issue. The solution was to handle it like a business deal.


That doesn't solve the government being secular, which is what the baker's problem is.
qwueri 
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Posted 4/16/17 , edited 4/16/17
The designation of hate speech is used by both the right and the left when they want to exclude base generalizations of wide swaths of people from their platforms. It's also used by schools, internet forums, and other platforms of speech to keep a civil atmosphere where speakers aren't degenerating into insulting each other as a matter of course.

If someone feels their hatred or distaste for a group of people isn't being welcomed, that's on their own heads because nobody is obligated to give them a platform to spew that kind of bullshit. Learning to at least extend of modicum of respect for others is a basic skill for socializing with people.
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Posted 4/16/17
Well, if you are proving a valid point, with sufficient evidence to back it up, and this point is later found out to be true, then that's fine with me.
Of course, you wont get anywhere because everyone today is a special little snowflake that you have to treat with the utmost care and respect
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Posted 4/16/17


This thread has been reported several times, and while I understand the concern, I think a discussion about hate speech does not break site rules.

However, this thread will be closed if you use it to dispense holocaust-denial or anti-semitic, or other hateful propaganda regarding other groups of people. Your profile pic appears to be part of that sort of propaganda, so I've removed it.
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Posted 4/16/17
I hate Canada. why must they feed us lies! Canadian bacon is not bacon, its ham! #spreadthetruth
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Posted 4/16/17 , edited 4/29/17

lorreen wrote:



This thread has been reported several times, and while I understand the concern, I think a discussion about hate speech does not break site rules.

However, this thread will be closed if you use it to dispense holocaust-denial or anti-semitic, or other hateful propaganda regarding other groups of people. Your profile pic appears to be part of that sort of propaganda, so I've removed it.


This is what I was talking about before.

The concept of Hate Speech is used as a tool to silence any speech. The one wielding that tool can, deny freedom of speech to anyone, just because it differs from what the wielder believes in.

It is better to debate and to show that an idea is flawed. To show how that idea is flawed. To point to the greatest examples of how abusive and dangerous ideas like that are, with examples that occurred through history.

Simply shutting down that speech, because you don't like it, without debate, is a serious problem in America these days. Look at what's happening in college campuses across the United States, speakers have been attacked, and booed, and interrupted, and threatened by leftists, who rather than debate, have chosen to shut down free speech.

In fact, there is a movement, now, by leftists that actually proposes that freedom of speech should be limited.

That's plain crazy, yet that is the path the country seems to be following. We can't let it go that way.
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Posted 4/16/17

DeadlyOats wrote:


lorreen wrote:



This thread has been reported several times, and while I understand the concern, I think a discussion about hate speech does not break site rules.

However, this thread will be closed if you use it to dispense holocaust-denial or anti-semitic, or other hateful propaganda regarding other groups of people. Your profile pic appears to be part of that sort of propaganda, so I've removed it.


This is what I was talking about before.

The concept of Hate Speech is used as a tool to silence any speech. The one wielding that tool can, deny freedom of speech to anyone, just because it differs from what the wielder believes in.

It is better to debate and to show that an idea is flawed. To show how that idea is flawed. To point to the greatest examples of how abusive and dangerous ideas like that are, with examples that occurred through history.

Simply shutting down that speech, because you don't like it, without debate, is a serious problem in America these days. Look at what's happening in college campuses across the United States, speakers have been attacked, and booed, and interrupted, and threatened by leftists, who rather than debate, have chosen to shut down free speech.

In fact, there is a movement, now, by leftists that actually proposes that freedom of speech should be limited.

That's plain crazy, yet that is the path the country seems to be following. We can't let it go that way.


Lorreen is doing her job. There were many times she allowed Holocaust denial threads, especially one by DanteVtzTheWorld, and the conspiracy theories by LalaSatalin. The same rights that protect free speech in public spaces also protects what people can do within things they own, such as their own house, or forums.

There is a common ode among moderators from what I have seen, where they simply cannot debate or voice opinions, other then sporadic reaffirmation of the rules.

You yourself has called it hate speech, something that is banned on the forums.

So what is the deal here? I would see if it results in a sort of hypocritical reinforcement of the rules, but Lorreen is probably the most lax moderator here.
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Posted 4/16/17
I hate you all. Your children too.
lawdog 
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Posted 4/16/17
Ah, this nonsense: The "'Truth' isn't hate speech" argument is so often used by someone who is spewing hatred, and whose claim of "truth" is delusional at best, deliberately false at worse.

Truth? Here is truth: The US Army and the British forces captured massive quantities of German records related to the Holocaust (which doesn't even go into what the Soviets captured).

The record keeping of the Germans was meticulous. For example, the complete status reports of the Einsatzgruppen death squads were found in the Gestapo archives, alone showing the shooting deaths of 1,500,000 Jews.

I've yet to find a Holocaust denier who isn't an anti-Semite. Holocaust denial is junk history, with "scholarship" that any neutral party would give a Zero score to, as it is based on selective cherry-picking, misstatements, the out-of-context use of actual facts, ignoring the massive historical database that disproves their "theory", and outright lies and falsehoods, complete with made-up data.

What should be remembered: The Nazis systemically and deliberately killed at least 11 million people outside of combat situations, of whom 5.5-6 million were killed just because they were Jews. Don't forget the Jews who died, but also remember that at least as many non-Jews were murdered by the Nazis as well.
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Posted 4/16/17
Yes, of course, Holocaust denial is pure idiocy.
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