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Post Reply Arrests made as protesters clash at pro-Trump rally in Berkeley
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Posted 4/16/17

mittemeyer wrote:

I would like to remark in passing that, in my opinion, most Trump supporters are not Nazis.

That said, for the issue at hand, one would think a Neo-Nazi is a kind of Nazi, just like a Neo-Confucian is a kind of Confucian.


I didn't know Neo-Confucian was a thing.


mittemeyer wrote:

My preferred definition of conservatism is given by Corey Robin, in The Reactionary Mind: that it's a political movement committed to the preservation of domination and hierarchy in society.


qwueri wrote:Do you think I'm really gong to be baited into that that obvious a redirect from a picture of a guy holding a nazi salute?


Well, to play the devil's advocate, he could have been lowering his hand after raising it, and the camera caught him in medias res.


The problem is that the modern "conservative" is both opposed to and for it in various ways. A conservative is for less taxes and less government which could change the hierarchy. However they are also against letting in large numbers of refugees that can change the culture of the society. They are however pro-immigration but only when they culturally accept our culture, slight change in culture naturally happens but not a major change.

I've seen the wall street take someone pointing to the right of them as a NAZI salute <_<;;
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Posted 4/16/17 , edited 4/16/17
I suppose these are exciting times. Even Republicans can't figure out whether they're to the right or the left of the new authoritarian-nationalism that Donald Trump represents and has brought into the political mainstream.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/04/the-gops-ideological-identity-crisis/521316/?utm_source=atlfb

But virtually everyone who wrote to me shared a common complaint: The traditional “Left ↔ Right” spectrum used to describe and categorize Republicans has become obsolete in the age of Trump. The question now is what to replace it with.


For now, let's simply agree that conservatism is innovating, and hence quite the mixed bag at the moment.

Now, are authoritarian-nationalists fascists? In my opinion, they aren't.
qwueri 
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Posted 4/16/17

Rujikin wrote:


NAZI's did do that so that is one trait associated with them. They also wore masks and caused violence to their opponents rallys to try to paint their enemies as being violent.


Right, I'm sure they showed up on the same site (as how many confrontations does this make now?) to protest peacefully. Right up until somebody throws the first punch/stone/etc. Trying to stir up violence is a pretty universal tool for political movements with little interest in democratic exchange.
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Posted 4/16/17 , edited 4/17/17
California is a very special place. The stupidity is over 9000. It's rather funny watching these hooded dick weeds get arrested. Hope they keep this crap up. Good entertainment
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Posted 4/16/17 , edited 4/16/17

mittemeyer wrote:

I suppose these are exciting times. Even Republicans can't figure out whether they're to the right or the left of the new authoritarian-nationalism that Donald Trump represents and has brought into the political mainstream.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/04/the-gops-ideological-identity-crisis/521316/?utm_source=atlfb

But virtually everyone who wrote to me shared a common complaint: The traditional “Left ↔ Right” spectrum used to describe and categorize Republicans has become obsolete in the age of Trump. The question now is what to replace it with.


For now, let's simply agree that conservatism is innovating, and hence quite the mixed bag at the moment.

Now, are authoritarian-nationalists fascists? In my opinion, they aren't.


Trump has been delegating more power to the states and spreading power out. Bush and Obama was consolidating power and gave Trump the enormous power he wields now. You can't really call Trump an authoritarian when he is doing the opposite of what authoritarians do.

Right now the "right" is having a battle for the soul. It's a battle between the old school conservatives and the more libertarian conservatives. Don't know if you pay attention or not but Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and a bunch of Libertarians that supported Trump are now his main advisors and they have gained a HUGE following with a lot of support. The old school conservatives that attacked Trump endlessly and refused to support him are trying to figure out what to do. Some have joined with Trump, not sure if they are serious or not. Some are just keeping their heads down and trying to not cause much commotion. Some, like McCain, are actively bashing everything Trump does and pushing for more George Bush type conservatism (War (Invade Syria >.<!) and bigger government).

Its quite interesting times we live in. I hope the Republicans become more libertarian as they should be.
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Posted 4/16/17 , edited 4/16/17


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Posted 4/16/17 , edited 4/16/17
Regarding authoritarianism, I'm referring to the analysis by Jonathan Haidt, who


argues that Trump "is not a conservative, and is not appealing to classical conservative ideas. He is an authoritarian."

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/opinion/campaign-stops/purity-disgust-and-donald-trump.html

But yes, I've read about Trump's pivot, although the commentator I read suggests it's simply to a more orthodox conservatism, which might include libertarian positions.
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/4/13/15281232/trump-pivot-sessions-cohn

De-regulation is the bread-and-butter of American conservatism, after all.
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Posted 4/16/17 , edited 4/16/17

mittemeyer wrote:

Regarding authoritarianism, I'm referring to the analysis by Jonathan Haidt, who


argues that Trump "is not a conservative, and is not appealing to classical conservative ideas. He is an authoritarian."

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/opinion/campaign-stops/purity-disgust-and-donald-trump.html

But yes, I've read about Trump's pivot, although the commentator I read suggests it's simply to a more orthodox conservatism, which might include libertarian positions.
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/4/13/15281232/trump-pivot-sessions-cohn

De-regulation is the bread-and-butter of American conservatism, after all.


I agree with the bolded part entirely. I'm an independent and normally hate both parties but I am all for Trump. Actually a lot of conservatives didn't even vote because of Trump but he got a bunch of independents and conservative leaning independents.

I don't even know wtf orthodox conservatism is, did they just coin it in this article. He is being heavily influenced by libertarians since they welcomed him and have been helping him since day 0. Libertarian values involve less government interference and more personal freedoms, which should be what all conservatives aim to do. Trump campaigned on that and believes in those values. A lot of the old school conservatives talk about it but don't believe in it.

I just hope to see more libertarian values in the Republican party and get rid of the fucking George Bushes and McCains. I'm sick of these big government "conservatives" being the back of the republican party.
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Posted 4/16/17 , edited 4/16/17
What hell have I stepped in to? I thought it was funny to see a political discussion on a predominantly anime-centric forum, but after reading this, I can see nothing funny about this (apart from that picture of a grown man wedgying another grown man). Honestly though, I find myself so moderate that I cant stand behind either party anymore, as both sides have resorted to straying away from the center; as if becoming more extreme left/right is what the people want.

We should all unite under this one thought: "Jet fuel cant melt Nippon-steel beams." Thank you, and good night.
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Posted 4/17/17 , edited 4/17/17

redokami wrote:

the word Nazi is used so much its losing its meaning , do people realize Nazis KILLED people in masse? I don't see anyone killing anybody here..


That is the problem in general, but also a dumb way to subvert the stereotype is by using the salute in the first place. The term may be Neo-Nazis, which is what Quweri is referring to.

Or Nazi-sympathizer.

The image is not contextual enough, though I would believe the general consensus of at least one person with such belief at a rally, though I cannot say for that specific picture.

Some people naturally gravitate to a belief like Nazism, others do it to spite the other political side.

After all, Communist and Nazis during Hitler's reign were mortal enemies.
bakura 
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Posted 4/17/17 , edited 4/19/17
you know I've not read up on the whole Berkley thing but I have something to say

for a while now it's become known about how social justice warrior's have forced there ideology into area's of entertainment and culture (like sci-fi, comics, video games, journalism) and only in the past few year's has there been a big push back. now predictably the push back is being just as violent and commentator's on the other side (many I used to respect) have become just as radicalised as the people they claim to fight to the point they have now become "culture warriors", and as far as my escapist hobbies go I have one thing to say.


KEEP YOUR BLOODY FAKE CULTURE WAR OUT OF MY HOBBIES AND LEAVE ME ALONE.
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Posted 4/17/17 , edited 4/17/17

Rujikin wrote:

Anti-Fa were throwing smoke grenades, bricks, and M-80 fireworks into the crowd.

The "alt-right" were debating, trolling, and defending themselves from being attacked. Even helping anti-fa injured in the fighting.

Yeah lets ignore all of that because you found a guy doing what may/maynot be a nazi salute.


I am sure you are right they were there for a peaceful rally
I mean take the guy sucker punching a woman The sign of true Trump supporter and not a cowardly twat I am sure he doesn't have the pass of being a violent white supremice with a history of hate crimes............oh wait
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Posted 4/17/17 , edited 4/17/17


Ah, so some violent KKK fuck punches a woman in the face and the usual people in this thread are celebrating him and talking about how . tolerant he is. I'd say I was surprised but we all know I'm not.

Edit: Looks like he might get kicked out of CSU and possibly charges filed.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-nathan-damigo-stanislaus-state-20170417-story.html
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22 / AH / Helipad
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Posted 4/17/17 , edited 4/17/17
What's with all the "Nazi Nazi Nazi" crap? The level of Godwin in this thread is ridiculous. I feel like people just use the Nazi comparison because most people have a vague idea of who the Nazis were, while they don't know or care about other groups responsible for genocides throughout the world. And really, you could fling the Nazi comparison at both the far left-wingers or far right-wingers, so it's redundant.

I see some posts saying all the people on the right side were racists or alt-right? If you watch the footage of the actual riot, the crowd on the right is clearly a mixed bag of people. There are buff dudes in leather vests with patches, elderly veterans in wheelchairs, middle aged men in slacks and dress-shirts, and young people wearing regular jeans and t-shirts, both men and women.

I don't think the violence in these riots in justified for either side, but I can't say I'm surprised things are turning out like this. Antifa has been a violent presence in these demonstrations for a while now, so the increased retaliation we have been seeing from the right-wing protesters is to be expected. Antifa really is making liberal protesters who aren't violent look bad, just like the reputation of the alt-right and the right-wing violence at protests like this makes normal conservatives look bad.

Also, what's with all this shit about how terrible it is that a right-wing man punched an Antifa woman during the protest? She was clearly trying to get involved in the fighting. If you're throwing punches during a violent riot, expect to get punched. It should also be noted that after she got knocked on her ass she stood off to the side, stopped trying to participate in the fight, and did not appeared to be bothered again.

Here is some interesting footage of the riot from someone in the crowd on the right-wing side. Feel free to make your own judgments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8GVtXfATtI
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Posted 4/17/17
Seeing that hairy fetish pornstar get punched in the face was the best.
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